This morning before work a couple guys on my crew came out to use my shooting facilities. Jim had some reloads that his "friend" had given him for his 300 Wimpchester magnum and was shooting them at a 100 yd target. Sam and I were spotting his rounds when I heard "@&*^%( it !!!!!!!". He had just fired his 4th round when he extracted what was left of a casing out of the chamber. All he got out was about 3/8 inch of the case as it had separated just in front of the belt. He was very lucky that was the extent of the damage. I told him he'd be ahead to pitch the rest of the reloads and get started on his own reloading setup and I would help him get started.

I'm not sure what the exact cause of the failure wa,s but I suspect that it was a 180 grain bullet mistakenly loaded with the amount of powder to run 165's as that's what the "friend" was supposed to have loaded for him. This was also brass of questionable heritage and of multiple headstamps. The ammo was a mixed lot of Wimpchester, R.P. and Federal. I warned Jim of the potential hazards of mixing head stamps with the same load. Not only can it effect accuraccy but it can be unsafe. He went down to the local sporting goods store on his way home and picked out some new brass, bullets and powder. It's lucky Sam shoots a 300 win mag and reloads too so between the two of us Jim can't help but be guided down the path to succcessful and SAFE reloading.

Maybe this incident will help him convince his wife that he need s to get a reloading setup of his own.

Did he have trouble opening the bolt before the separation? Sounds like he had a case head separation as if it were just a hot round I would think it would have been very difficult to open the bolt. He was given brass that was probably fired (and possibly trimmed) a few times. I've loaded for my dad, brother and a friend but all of them had the exact firearm I was using and I was extra careful and did not give any max loads or brass fired more than once. All have had great results. But some aren't as finicky as me and your friends "friend" probably threw together whatever he had lying around without knowing how many times the brass had been fired, probably never inspected any nor knew if/how many times it had been trimmed. Glad no injuries came of it and sounds like he's on the right path now.

I doubt that there was anything wrong with the round other than it was fired just one time too many. Thinning of the brass in a particular area after multiple firings is common. some guys use a sharpened paper clip that is hooked to feel the inside of the brass in that type of suspect area to try and feel a ring from the inside. Others measure brass in the head area and weigh and count the times trimmed and all sorts of things to predict the time to toss brass before a failure. I think most shooters just settle on a times fired for a lot of particular brass and load that gives them a margin of safety before they toss the brass. A lot of brave handloaders shoot a particular lot of brass until they have a failure and toss the whole lot.

The friend of your friend should report his findings to his handloader friend and return the unfired rounds. what seems like a normal occurence to him, I am sure was a safety concern to the shooter. The fact that this was a batch of mixed head stamps and probably brass picked up at a range somewhere tells you the handloader is a little more willing to take risks than most of us at best and at worst he is just dangerous. This is something he may do for handloading himself and never think about it.

Jim had a 1 inch group going until the incident. That's what lead me to beleave it was a heavier bullet with light bullet charge. That 4th shot was WAY off. But yous guys is right. It coulda been all of the above.

Now he's got to deal with getting what's left of the case out of his gun. :mad:

Jim had a 1 inch group going until the incident. That's what lead me to beleave it was a heavier bullet with light bullet charge. That 4th shot was WAY off. But yous guys is right. It coulda been all of the above.

Now he's got to deal with getting what's left of the case out of his gun. :mad:

One of the reasons I'm not thrilled with beleted cases. Some chambers are a bit generous in the shoulder to head dimention, relying on the belt to do the job of headspacing...even with chambers that do support the case shoulder, some lots of brass are a bit short in that dimention (again relying on the belt to do the job). Dies can set the shoulder back.

In teh aboe cases, each sizing cycle moves the shoulder back a tiny bit...to be lown forward at each firing...which will eventually lead to a seperation...which is exactly what you experienced.

(Besides, are darned few belted case that have any real need of that belt..458WM comes to mind, and perhaps the .300H&H, but for the vast majority of nthem it serves about as much use as breasts on a bull.)

Have only plated with beleted cases a few times, and each time I tended to ignore the belt completely and just set the chamber/case fit as i would with a beltless bottle neck case: want a tiny bit of resistance from the shoulder when chambering...a little more sizing than a pure neck-size.

PRoably not a high pressure event...but of couse, after a seperation, having that high pressure gas leak back into teh action can casue some damage.

Wouldn't expect a seperation shot to land nearly in the same place...would have been some bleed off of gas before bullet exit and can sure therre loading of the bolt (and the action) would have been differnt enough to tweak things a good bit.

Ribbonstone nailed the gist of the belted magnums. Though I shoot one I set the die so the case head spaces on the sholder.

There is a simple way to check your cases for incipient head seperation and if you reload bottle neck cases this should be done every time you reload a case that has more that three loadings on it.

Take a paper clip and straighten it out to a depth that will go to the bottom of the inside of your case.
Bend a small L shape on the end so that it will fit in the case mouth. I usually bend another L on the top so I know exactly where the inside L is pointing.

Slide this up and down on and against the inside of the case bumping the bottom and up for about 3/4 of an inch.

If your nearing a case head seperation you will feel a crease beginning to form in that first 3/4 inch. It will feel much like using your thumbnail to scrape across a groove almost to small to see or feel with your finger.

This is easy to do and can mean not having to make a trip to the gunsmith to safely have a stuck case removed from that chamber of your rifle.

If your friend wants to remove the remaining portion of the case. Soak the internal area with Kroil or similar product, take a stainless steel brush made for cleaning gun bores that would fit tight in the case area of the chamber, shove it into the case portion and pull back...the bristles of the brush will grab the case and pull it out of the chamber.

Yup - a common problem using multiple fired belted cases. Had plenty of those in my lifetime, too! :D

The trick is to closely inspect fired brass by first wiping clean and examining the case for a telltale bright ring around the case just above the case web. As faucettb suggests, one of my primary case inspection tools is a basic paper clip with a 1/8th inch bent end and sharpened to a chisel point, to scrape inside the case in this area. A pronounced dip can be detected as the case thins. Don't confuse this dip with normal case expansion to fit the individual chamber, though.

Careful neck sizing (for chamber specific brass) will help in not disturbing the fire-formed dimensions of the case wall and shoulder.

Usually able to get up to 10 reloads on my 7mm RM and 7mm Dakota brass before things start to go south with them. The number of reloads you get will depend on just how hot you load them. The higher the loads, the less reloads. Sometimes, the primer pockets enlarge excessively before you get case incepient cracking.

This morning before work a couple guys on my crew came out to use my shooting facilities. Jim had some reloads that his "friend" had given him for his 300 Wimpchester magnum and was shooting them at a 100 yd target. Sam and I were spotting his rounds when I heard "@&*^%( it !!!!!!!". He had just fired his 4th round when he extracted what was left of a casing out of the chamber. All he got out was about 3/8 inch of the case as it had separated just in front of the belt. He was very lucky that was the extent of the damage. I told him he'd be ahead to pitch the rest of the reloads and get started on his own reloading setup and I would help him get started.

I'm not sure what the exact cause of the failure wa,s but I suspect that it was a 180 grain bullet mistakenly loaded with the amount of powder to run 165's as that's what the "friend" was supposed to have loaded for him. This was also brass of questionable heritage and of multiple headstamps. The ammo was a mixed lot of Wimpchester, R.P. and Federal. I warned Jim of the potential hazards of mixing head stamps with the same load. Not only can it effect accuraccy but it can be unsafe. He went down to the local sporting goods store on his way home and picked out some new brass, bullets and powder. It's lucky Sam shoots a 300 win mag and reloads too so between the two of us Jim can't help but be guided down the path to succcessful and SAFE reloading.

Maybe this incident will help him convince his wife that he need s to get a reloading setup of his own.
RJ,
Most of us have a story to tell about this.
Mine involves a batch of "reloads"made by my BrotherinLaw,that came with the rifle that he sold to me.
In two of the boxes I noticed that the label indicated all the rounds were the same,but there were different bullets in the cases.I decided to dump ALL 5 of the boxes of cartridges.Some had different powder in the same box.
He had appearently consolidated all his unused ammo in to these boxes.
Frank

Am lazy at times...so when a load works out to be "almost good" (is safe, just shoots poorly) will often label the box BIL (brother in law) and set it aside.

Had one semi-custom rifle in a belted case: 6.5RM built on a Ruger #3 action. took some pains to be sure the chamber was adjusted so that the shoulder to breech face headspace was as close as possible and ignored the belt. Still, Ruger #1 and #3 actions doen't have any real camming action, so somthing more than neck sizing was called for, but the cases lasted as well as any other so long as they were carefully resized.

Haven't found a real good argument for the belt...kind of a style issue for most cases that wear one. There was a time when people would argue that rimmed cases were stronger becasue of the extra metal around the primer pocket...and a time when people believed bleted cases wee stronger becasue of the added thickness of the belt. Some people still believe it....I never bought into either theory.

When I bought my 223, I contacted the previous owner to get his load data, he offered to sell me his old ammo, it might shoot fine, I've never fired enough to tell, after the first few rounds, the bolt and flattest primers I have ever seen told me too stop, the worst thing that has happend to me was with some factory Federal in my friends Ruger 270, the primer blew completely out of the pocket, kinda scary, hopefully that is the worst I will see

From what I've read in the past, seems the modern belts were added to give the name "magnum" impressive status in the eyes of the public. Most gun hacks agree the belt is next to worthless on a bottleneck cartridge. When Holland & Holland put one on their almost shoulderless cartridges back at the beginning of the 20th Century, the belt served the real purpose of headspacing. Today, it just satisfies the opinion of the unknowning that the cartridge is a "magnum".

The removal of the belt on today's modern Whizzums would indicate the gun mfg's have finally tumbled to the public being a little more educated to the true facts.

BELTS? WE DON' NEED NO STEENKIN' BELTS!!!!! :D

I agree kdub. I think the craze got worse when Roy started building rifles. Then everybody's magnum had to have a belt.

I prefer suspenders myself :D :D

Well jim got the case out. He used the brush trick and the rest of the shell fell out. Sam's got him on the right track now loading for his 300 wimpchester. Thanks for all the help and info.

I was shooting pistols with a friend one day when his 38 detective special sounded louder than my 44 mag. Upon looking at his gun the top strap and one cylinder were missing and two of the remaining cylinders were opened like a banana. He was shooting his own reloads. Near as we could figure one of them had a double charge of bulls eye. Luckily no one was injured except his for his pride.
Also I do not let other people shoot my loads because some of them are at max and you do not know what kind of equipment they will be used in.

My Dad always said "Son, if you want to be sure you won't ever double charge a case ,use a powder that will fill the case with a single charge."

Works for me. Now you know where I got my addiction to magnum loads and lots of recoil :D

The reason for the belt on the original belted cases was for better headspace. The Cordite powder sometimes gave high pressures in the heat of the tropics. This would cause hard extraction, someting you dont need when you are hunting dangerus game. They had to put a lot of taper in the case to help this problem. The 375 and 300 H&H mags have a very small shoulder so they added the belt to allow for more exact headspace. These rounds were not designed for reloading and will work well on any new first shot. That all the makers were looking for: reliable function.

I was shooting pistols with a friend one day when his 38 detective special sounded louder than my 44 mag. Upon looking at his gun the top strap and one cylinder were missing and two of the remaining cylinders were opened like a banana. He was shooting his own reloads. Near as we could figure one of them had a double charge of bulls eye. Luckily no one was injured except his for his pride.
Also I do not let other people shoot my loads because some of them are at max and you do not know what kind of equipment they will be used in.


thats why you ALWAYS lokk into the cases when they are charged to see if they are ALL the same amout of powder.....

I always pick up an upside down case before putting powder powder in it and set them in a separate block on the opposite side when charged.

I have a 308 Norma , 340 Weatherby,7MM Rem,and a 264 Winchester . I neck size them so that the rounds head space on the shoulder like a non belted case. I get more reloads out of each case than when I use to partial full length resize the cases .The cases are trimmed for length after fireing the cases one time. Full length sizeing and hot reloads will get a round to seperate in front of the belt. Most of my reloads are not at the max powder grains. I chamber each round after reloading before I go hunting , never had a problem with them. Got the 308 Norma during the 60,s and used 300 H&H cases ran into a RCBS 308 Norma trim die , fire formed the cases and then neck sizes cases. I shot pronghorn, mule deer and elk using the converted belted 300 H&H cases, never had a problem.