Hello,
I just bought 200 Hornaday 100 gr SJ 30 cal bullets from MIdway.
I'm a bullet weigher and am disappointed with the range of the actual weights of them. 98.2-100.7.
My last batch,200 or 300,bought two years ago ranged only 99.4-100.6.
Has anyone seen a dropoff of quality of Hornaday bullets?
Does Midway sell 'seconds' bullets?
I'm the last to find out these things because I used to make almost all mine,because I shot mostly cast bullets.
Frank

Hi,

I don't know about bullet weights but I had a bullet length quality issue with Hornady bullets.
Recently, I bought 139 gr Hornady Interbond bullets in 7mm caliber. I was loading for a rifle with a detachable magazine so I was concerned about bullet length.
After deciding on a bullet seating depth that I wanted, I handloaded some rounds using brand new brass. When I measured the COL (cartridge overall length) of my handloaded rounds --- they varied by as much as 0.007" in length, which is twice that of other competitor's bullets with a polymer tip, in my experience.

I got out my Stoney Point Bulet Comparator with insert and I measured my handloads with Hornady's bullets and found out that the all but two rounds (the longest ones) had case head to bullet ogive lengths within acceptable tolerances of only a few thousands (max difference of about 0.004").
This told me that the difference in my handload's COL was due to the measurement from the ogive to the bullet tip. Thus it appears, Hornady has a quality control issue probably with the length of the plastic bullet tip.

As for the 2 handloads with the longest COL, they had a longer case head to ogive length that was 0.006" longer than the rest of my handloads. This seems to explain why I kept getting a flyer with a 3 round target group.

The above observations were noted with just 12 handloads, however, I noted a length difference in the first 12 rounds I handload but I never measured those. However, after dismal results at the rifle range with those first 12 handloads, I next loaded the above 12 rounds and then measured the COL and case head to ogive lengths.

I've been handloading for 37 years and in the past I have been lucky to only note only minor differences in COL lengths and case head to ogive lengths. Today's bullet manufactures seemed to have quality down pretty good. However, this particular batch of Hornady bullets seemed to have a quality control issue in my opinion. The lot # is 03-097 for these 139 gr Hornady Interbond bullets in 7mm (.284") caliber.
Having handloads that were 0.007" longer in COL caused me a problem with them being too close to the max length for the detachable magazine. Yes, they still fit in the detachable magazine but they were way to close to being too long for the magazine, especially for hunting ammo --- where one can work often the bolt in an excited manner with a buck in front of you, as opposed to gently working the bolt at the target range.

If others can make better sense of the length differences in my handloads, please free to comment. However, I think there is a quality control issue with the lot of Hornady bullets that I bought.

Thanks,
helenajoe

Hi,

I don't know about bullet weights but I had a bullet length quality issue with Hornady bullets.
Recently, I bought 139 gr Hornady Interbond bullets in 7mm caliber. I was loading for a rifle with a detachable magazine so I was concerned about bullet length.
After deciding on a bullet seating depth that I wanted, I handloaded some rounds using brand new brass. When I measured the COL (cartridge overall length) of my handloaded rounds --- they varied by as much as 0.007" in length, which is twice that of other competitor's bullets with a polymer tip, in my experience.

I got out my Stoney Point Bulet Comparator with insert and I measured my handloads with Hornady's bullets and found out that the all but two rounds (the longest ones) had case head to bullet ogive lengths within acceptable tolerances of only a few thousands (max difference of about 0.004").
This told me that the difference in my handload's COL was due to the measurement from the ogive to the bullet tip. Thus it appears, Hornady has a quality control issue probably with the length of the plastic bullet tip.

As for the 2 handloads with the longest COL, they had a longer case head to ogive length that was 0.006" longer than the rest of my handloads. This seems to explain why I kept getting a flyer with a 3 round target group.

The above observations were noted with just 12 handloads, however, I noted a length difference in the first 12 rounds I handload but I never measured those. However, after dismal results at the rifle range with those first 12 handloads, I next loaded the above 12 rounds and then measured the COL and case head to ogive lengths.

I've been handloading for 37 years and in the past I have been lucky to only note only minor differences in COL lengths and case head to ogive lengths. Today's bullet manufactures seemed to have quality down pretty good. However, this particular batch of Hornady bullets seemed to have a quality control issue in my opinion. The lot # is 03-097 for these 139 gr Hornady Interbond bullets in 7mm (.284") caliber.
Having handloads that were 0.007" longer in COL caused me a problem with them being too close to the max length for the detachable magazine. Yes, they still fit in the detachable magazine but they were way to close to being too long for the magazine, especially for hunting ammo --- where one can work often the bolt in an excited manner with a buck in front of you, as opposed to gently working the bolt at the target range.

If others can make better sense of the length differences in my handloads, please free to comment. However, I think there is a quality control issue with the lot of Hornady bullets that I bought.

Thanks,
helenajoe


Did you give Hornedy a call or email? There usually pretty good about replacing bullets that much out of spec.

And as to weights, have seen two experiments done, and Hornady's and Nosler's faired about the best of them all.

I was very disappointed with the Hornady plastic tipped bullets in 30 caliber, weights were all over the place with a huge spread. I posted the information about 18 months ago. Lots of thread respondents waxed eloquently on the goodness of the same bullet. I never bought a second batch.

I too had problems with the 139 grain 7mm bullets. Never bought any more.

I had quality issues with their Lock-N-Load die bushings and adapters and ran a thread on that too.

On the other side of the coin, I purchased a large lot (1500) 350 grain RN bullets for my 45-70 that are absolutely superb.

It's unfortunate but I think quality with Hornady is hit and miss. You might get lucky but you might get disappointed.

I use their 230 grain flat nose .45acp bullets and have never had a problem!
That doesn't mean one doesn't exist!
I use Nosler 140 grain ballistic tips in 7mm and have had great success. JP

I was very disappointed with the Hornady plastic tipped bullets in 30 caliber, weights were all over the place with a huge spread. I posted the information about 18 months ago. Lots of thread respondents waxed eloquently on the goodness of the same bullet. I never bought a second batch.

I too had problems with the 139 grain 7mm bullets. Never bought any more.

I had quality issues with their Lock-N-Load die bushings and adapters and ran a thread on that too.

On the other side of the coin, I purchased a large lot (1500) 350 grain RN bullets for my 45-70 that are absolutely superb.

It's unfortunate but I think quality with Hornady is hit and miss. You might get lucky but you might get disappointed.

Good afternoon flashhole

Well here I sit with a new box of 139 gr. Hornady 7mm bullets and you got me scared now. I'm gonna go out and weigh some and measure some.

I'm new the 7mm game. Just got a 280 Remington mountian rifle and after having good luck with the 220 grain 8mm's thought I would try some of their 139 grain sst's in the 7.

Any bullets you recommend?

I had several issue with Hornady. First was some years ago when I got 180gr .308" spire points. Didn't start checking until I noted some where very tight going into the case. Found that they varied in diameter from .307" to .311" Called to no avail, wrote a letter and got a reply saying I should send the bullets back to them - did so at my cost got comfirmation of delivery, waited 6 weeks and called to see what they had to say and they denied even getting the bullets back.

Next was 300gr .452" XTP's...these varied from .451" to .452", not all that bad but not all that good either. Weight spread however was from 290-300gr. Despite the inconsistencies, they shot half decent but no matter how fast I drove them, they would not expand at all. Called again, they said send them back and like a dummy I fell for it again...no reply and denial of receiving them.

Next issue was with .315" lead round balls. Most ran +/- .004" with only two out of the whole box measuring .315" Also noted a lot of deformed balls, curious as the say that these are swaged yet the deformations I saw could only be caused in drop type shot making. I don't care how you swage a ball, you can't get a few oblonged into teardrops and several with gas spurs on them where air was introduced into molten lead if you swage since swaging is done cold. Called again...waste of time.

Last incident was the last straw. Got a box of alleged .312" 150gr spire points to load up in my 7.62x54R nothing else avail in .312" and I didn't want to wait. Got them home and past experience told me to check them before doing anything. Sure enough, they ranged from .309" to .310" which are totally useless for my .311" bore. Didn't even waste my time weighing them, threw them back in the bax and took 'em right back to the gunshop demanding a refund. He checked them too and found the same thing and gave me the money back on the spot. Waited 5 days for a box of Sierra .311" 180gr pro-hunter's and was worth while. Checked about 50 of these just for the heck of it, diameter was dead on .311" weight varied only .8gr max and length was dead on too.

I've had it with Hornady!

Well, it'll be a sad day for me if Hornady is indeed slipping in their overall quality. Use probably 90% Hornadys in my jacketed ammo reloading.

Have heard several folks complain about the inaccuracy of the plastic tipped bullets from them. Suffice to say, so far they have proven to be the best in accuracy for me in the .224 dia. to the .264 dia. loadings. This includes the V-Max, A-Max and the SST.

Yesterday and today, was fine tuning a couple of Swede 6.5mm's and stacked the SST's against the same weight in the Interlock FBSP's and the Barnes TSX bullets. Hands down, the SST's gave the better groupings.

Have noted a variance in COAL of ammo loaded with Hornadys lately, but since I use the Stony Point Comparator to set the ogive distance, the total length variance doesn't bother me unless it becomes a magazine feed issue.

Still and all, the Hornady's and Sierra's are still preforming to suit my needs.

Well here I sit with a new box of 139 gr. Hornady 7mm bullets and you got me scared now. I'm gonna go out and weigh some and measure some.

I'm new the 7mm game. Just got a 280 Remington mountian rifle and after having good luck with the 220 grain 8mm's thought I would try some of their 139 grain sst's in the 7.

Any bullets you recommend?

Hi faucettb,

I've had great luck with Nosler's 150 gr Ballistic Tip bullets in my 7mm Rem Mag and in the past week have shot 1/4", 3/4", 5/8", 7/8", 1", 1", 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" groups witih my Rem 700 BDL rifle of 1960's vintage. Groups are 3-shots at 100 yds, shot on 3 separate days with varying weather conditions, including slight winds. I used 2 different powders and both shot excellent groups that hit dead center on the target in the 10x bullseye.
Also, I'm just working up a load for Barnes 140 gr Triple Shock X bulles in the same rifle and have shot 1/2", 3/4", 3/4", and 1 1/8" groups. Groups are 3-shots at 100 yds on 2 separate days with varying weather conditions, including slight winds. I used 2 different powders and both shot excellent groups that hit dead center on the target in the 10x bullseye.

However, the 139 gr Hornady InterBond bullets shot 1 1/2" to 4 1/2" groups, with half the groups being over 3". I've tried 3 different powders and they all shot terrible groups. Out of 39 shots, I only got one 10x bullseye, plus 6 in the 10 ring and the rest of the bullets were all over the place. The 1 1/2" group was in the 8 and 9 ring and when I reshot that powder and bullet combination, the group grew to a whopping 2 3/8" in size. I'll try one more powder but I'm not holding out much hope since the quality of the Hornady bullet seems to be the problem in terms of them being different lengths from the base of the bullet to the ogive and from the ogive to the end of the plastic polymer tip.

Next, I'm going to try some Swift 150 gr Scirocco bullets in my 7mm Rem Mag since I've had superb results (3/4", 3/4", 7/8", 7/8", 1" groups) in my .270 Win with Scirocco bullets. Groups are 3-shots at 100 yds on separate days with varying weather conditions, including winds. My .270 Win is a Rem 700 BDL rifle of 1960's vintage. Barnes 130 gr Triple Shock X bullets also shot sub 1" and 1" groups in my .270 Win rifle.

faucettb, let us know how those Hornady 139 gr SST bullets shoot in your 280 Remington rifle.

Good luck,
helenajoe
Spokane, WA

Getting back to the 100 gr SJ bullet, I believe that one is meant for plinking so they probably have a greater tolerance for size. Never had great groups from it but they are about the cheapest jacketed bullet you can get. Good for short range practice as a light load.

Kragman71,

I'd certainly call Hornady on this. I'm a "measurer" rather than a "weigher," but it amounts to the same thing. Nosler varied almost imperceptibly (the last time I measured the ogive length), and Honady was next in accuracy.

Jaywalker

I have always liked their bullets, 139 gr 7mm is one of my favorite coyote/ antelope rounds. I may just go check them out for weight and length. I did buy their dies and returned them for credit, could not get the decap/sizer die to work. Could not lock it down to resize, kept slipping. There tech told me to rough up the stem for a better grip with emory or a rough sand paper!!!!.
New people take over and different ideas start. Look at Ruger they are trying to sell clothes and golf clubs, and not at got to have it price.
Jim

Getting back to the 100 gr SJ bullet, I believe that one is meant for plinking so they probably have a greater tolerance for size. Never had great groups from it but they are about the cheapest jacketed bullet you can get. Good for short range practice as a light load.


That's what I think too. I wouldn't bother weighing those bullets even if I weighed others.

Bill

Well, guys -

Spent the morning at the range shooting 3 Swede 6.5x55's and a 6mm/284. Targets set at 100, 200 and 300 yds. All ammo loaded with Hornady SST's, A-Max and Interlock's. Largest groups measured was 1.20 MOA out of a stock Swede (Weaver Classic 2x8 pistol scope mounted on a B-Square mount on the existing rear sight base). The 6mm/284 was shooting less than MOA with the A-Max and Interlocks at all ranges.

Guess the variance in bullet weight and length isn't entering into the equation for me for these hunting rifles. Thing I'll go replenish my stock of Hornady's for these calibers! :D

Kragman71,

I'd certainly call Hornady on this. I'm a "measurer" rather than a "weigher," but it amounts to the same thing. Nosler varied almost imperceptibly (the last time I measured the ogive length), and Honady was next in accuracy.

Jaywalker
Jaywalker,
I'll email Hornady later tonight.
I'm not ready to rant on Hornaday just yet. It's my store-bought favorite hunting bullet.
Frank

That's what I think too. I wouldn't bother weighing those bullets even if I weighed others.

Bill
Kingfish,
Iv'e been shooting this 30 Carbine for about 40 years,and the most accurate bullet,for it,is the Hornaday SJ. I shoot only 3 shot groups,but I have shot some 1 minute groups;all of them with that particular bullet. I shot a 1.5 minute group ith it this week.
Don't sell it too short,just because it's 'cheap'.
Frank

Kragman,

I'm glad those bullets are accurate for you. The ones I've loaded and fired have not been anything to write home about and they don't look like anything but 25-50yd bullets. In that weight of 30cal bullet, I've found the Sierra 110grn varminter hp as my accuracy bullet but I've cast some Lee 113f bullets that are weighing 115grns gc'ed and lubed that I haven't shot yet and hope they will fill my need for 30cal plinking bullets. And I had to weigh them because of a high rejection rate out of my Lee mold.

Bill

Kragman,

I'm glad those bullets are accurate for you. The ones I've loaded and fired have not been anything to write home about and they don't look like anything but 25-50yd bullets. In that weight of 30cal bullet, I've found the Sierra 110grn varminter hp as my accuracy bullet but I've cast some Lee 113f bullets that are weighing 115grns gc'ed and lubed that I haven't shot yet and hope they will fill my need for 30cal plinking bullets. And I had to weigh them because of a high rejection rate out of my Lee mold.

Bill
Kingfish,
I was surprised to find ANY 30 caliber bullet outshoot a Sierra bullet in a gun of mine.In all of my 30 caliber rifles,the most accurate bullet is a Sierra,except for the 30 Carbine.
FYI the 110 grain bullets(any make) hit 3 inches right of the 100 grain Hornadys;the 113 grain cast bullets hit 3 inches left
Hey,I ain't making this up.
Frank

I wrote Steve Hornady about this forum topic thread and sent him the link. I have never had a problem with Hornady bullets and it seemed a little odd that a few people were having problems the way they said they were having. Steve gave me permission to post this on this thread.

30-30 Man
*************************************************


From: Steve Hornady
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:41 AM
To: Webmaster
Subject: RE: Bad Press from handloading forum on your bullets

Well I went through it and it seems to be mixed. Of course those, who
don't like you for one reason or another will say whatever they want and
there's no way to verify their statements. For the record, and you can
post this if you want, I shoot a 280 that was originally a mountain
rifle but has been changed with new barrel and stock. I use that rifle
for most of my hunting and have been using the 139 IB and SST since they
came out. The bullets I use come right out of inventory and I've never
had anyone "pull" special ones for me.
As for the fellow with all the problems and trying to return bullets,
frankly I don't believe it. If we don't get something, of course, we
don't get it and can't do anything about it. It is virtually impossible
to make bullets varying the diameters he says and we don't have tooling
that would allow us to make a 180 grain bullet that measured .311 and
they simply can't vary .004. We also don't have tooling that would allow
us to make a .312 bullet that measures .309-.310. The dies don't exist
and if he knew anything about bullet making he'd know why.
Finally, we only make swaged lead balls and, if he knew anything about
the swaging process, he wouldn't write what he said. It is difficult to
accept one guy would have all that trouble when the rest don't seem to.
And none of his returns made it either? The reality is, if we made
bullets that bad we'd have gone out of business a long long long time
ago.
Can we screw up? Absolutely. Will one guy get that many? I don't think
so.
Steve Hornady

Please read the letter sent to me by Mr. Steve Hornady about Hornady bullet quality issues.

30-30 Man

Please read the letter sent to me by Mr. Steve Hornady about Hornady bullet quality issues.

30-30 Man

Where is it?

Sorry
It's the Hornady Quality thread.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=23424&page=2


30-30 Man

Well, there you have it. Mr. Hornady's letter seems rather definitive to me. As I have used Hornady bullets for years, always with good results, I tend to "side with" Mr. Hornady on this issue.

I tend to believe that the gentleman who was supposedly finding different bullet lengths, with the Hornady bullets.....was probably in fact using CASES trimmed to different lengths....and either wasn't aware of it - or didn't want to admit it. I myself have seen a number of my handloads come out with slightly different COL's...eventhough the bullets are being seated to the SAME depth. This is almost certainly because the CASES are of different lengths - not the bullets.

As for the gentleman with wide variations in bullet diameter... as Mr. Hornady alluded....if the dies don't exist for such ....then it is not possible to have that much variation. I think that the gentleman must be mistaken. As to why, I cannot say.

Well said Mr. Hornady... I've never had a bad on after 10K of them or better.

Hmm. I don't think Steve Hornady's reply was "well said," I think it was unnecessarily aggressive. Even though Hornady's are my my first choice in "standard" bullets, we don't buy from Hornady - we buy from retailers. It's not beyond comprehension that someone messed with boxes after they left Hornady. It's also not beyond comprehention that tooling wears or people grow inattentive.

I'd be more concerned about the lost bullets returned to the factory. I'd expect Hornady would be grateful to get a bad box of bullets and would send a pre-paid mailing label. Having someone send something that vital back to whomever happened to open the box risks losing valuable info needed in tracking down the solution.

Perhaps Steve Hornady could benefit from learning the "no flaming" lessons we try to observe. First, gather the facts. Second, avoid assuming ignorance or a hostile motivation. Steve Hornady could well be 100% correct, but he could have been more polite.

Jaywalker

I wrote Steve Hornady about this forum topic thread and sent him the link. I have never had a problem with Hornady bullets and it seemed a little odd that a few people were having problems the way they said they were having. Steve gave me permission to post this on this thread.

30-30 Man
*************************************************


From: Steve Hornady
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:41 AM
To: Webmaster
Subject: RE: Bad Press from handloading forum on your bullets

Well I went through it and it seems to be mixed. Of course those, who
don't like you for one reason or another will say whatever they want and
there's no way to verify their statements. For the record, and you can
post this if you want, I shoot a 280 that was originally a mountain
rifle but has been changed with new barrel and stock. I use that rifle
for most of my hunting and have been using the 139 IB and SST since they
came out. The bullets I use come right out of inventory and I've never
had anyone "pull" special ones for me.
As for the fellow with all the problems and trying to return bullets,
frankly I don't believe it. If we don't get something, of course, we
don't get it and can't do anything about it. It is virtually impossible
to make bullets varying the diameters he says and we don't have tooling
that would allow us to make a 180 grain bullet that measured .311 and
they simply can't vary .004. We also don't have tooling that would allow
us to make a .312 bullet that measures .309-.310. The dies don't exist
and if he knew anything about bullet making he'd know why.
Finally, we only make swaged lead balls and, if he knew anything about
the swaging process, he wouldn't write what he said. It is difficult to
accept one guy would have all that trouble when the rest don't seem to.
And none of his returns made it either? The reality is, if we made
bullets that bad we'd have gone out of business a long long long time
ago.
Can we screw up? Absolutely. Will one guy get that many? I don't think
so.
Steve Hornady

I've heard only exceptional things about hornady from friends. He almost seems a little insulted...dunno...

I don't blame him one bit for being defensive. For those of us who have been long time users of Hornadys and have talked with many people there over the years, I understand why it may seem inconceivable that such gross problems exist. Can the world be such that there are some people who have nothing but problems with Hornadys and others who have never had one? I guess so. From the 223 to the 45-70 I've never had a problem getting Hornadys to shoot at least 1.5 MOA and they have always done a good job on game if I put them where they need to be. Currently my favorites are 154 grain Interbonds in my 280 Remington Ackley Improved.

Well, I guess it's nice to finally get some kind of reply from Hornady after all this time.

FYI, I've seen bullet making operations first hand, one in Germany, and two in the USA. I also have 15 years experience in molding, extrusion, swaging and casting of both metals & plastics. Dies & molds wear at a rate dependent upon the conditions of the material being formed. This can also be seen in operations such as button rifling when the bore dimentions vary as the cutter wears. There is no way to eliminate variations caused by this normal wear so the quality control is applied by the allowable tolerances for a given product.

I also know for fact that no matter how much effort a company puts into quality control, there are going to be screw-ups, this is something that will never be completely avoided because no matter what, someone or something will cause a problem. When I was production manager at a plastics molding plant, we had several problems combine into a major screw-up. Molds and go/nogo gauges were stored together, old molds and gauges were retained for parts use because even if the cavities or such were out of spec, there were a number of things that could be salvaged or modified into something else. One production run came in and someone accidentally pulled a skid with an out of spec mold and gauges on it, it was installed in the press and a semi load of parts were produced and shipped 2500 miles before it was noticed that all of these parts were out of spec. This happened even after QC proceedures were put in place so the only recourse we had was to eat the cost and replace the parts or loose the contract completely. End result was modifying the QC system to include five checks instead of the two previously used. Used dies & gauges were also clearly marked as "BAD" when they became out of spec.

Other probelms can happen too like when the wrong product is placed in the wrong box. Employee trying to make the quitting time deadline on friday decided to finish off a skid of XYZ product with ABC product because "it looked the same". QC problem, you bet but once again almost un-avoidable.

In all fairness, I did use a lot of Hornady bullets prior to the problems I encountered without incident. Most shot as good if not better than any other brand.


It is virtually impossible to make bullets varying the diameters he says and we don't have tooling that would allow us to make a 180 grain bullet that measured .311 and they simply can't vary .004. We also don't have tooling that would allow us to make a .312 bullet that measures .309-.310. The dies don't exist and if he knew anything about bullet making he'd know why.


Well sir, dies may not be made to these specs but worn dies will allow major variations. Alloy, temperature, friction, ect all play a roll when working any material and unless you can say that you control all of these factors with absoluteness, your are correct in using the term "virtually" since you, nor anyone else, can every be "absolute" on quality control...it's just not going to happen in any industry. IE: the Hubble space telescope mirror.

It wasn't the problems so much as the lack of responce. I had, and maybe still do have, the delivery confirmations on product I returned to Hornady. Copies of at least two of these accompanied the letters I sent following the return of the product trying to get some sort of answer, refund or replacement.

I'm also not the only one who has had quality problems with Hornady that have gone ignored. It has come up in gunshop/range conversations several times over the years and others have said the same thing as me... product returned without any responce from the company.

I lost a lot of things in the move from PA to FL but if I can find the delivery confirmations, I'll be more than happy to provide yet another copy of them. And just as a side note, don't be so quick to discount someone as being uninformed about a production process because there are others out there who do know the how's, why's and what-for's.

There's a bullet thief at Hornady's return desk? Some people are just not very handy with calipers or micrometers? If a bullet die wears, the bullets will get smaller not bigger? Perhaps some of the bullets measured came off the bottom of the pallet and got deformed? Glad I make my own bullets. :rolleyes:

I wrote Steve Hornady about this forum topic thread and sent him the link. I have never had a problem with Hornady bullets and it seemed a little odd that a few people were having problems the way they said they were having. Steve gave me permission to post this on this thread.

30-30 Man
*************************************************


From: Steve Hornady
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:41 AM
To: Webmaster
Subject: RE: Bad Press from handloading forum on your bullets

Well I went through it and it seems to be mixed. Of course those, who
don't like you for one reason or another will say whatever they want and
there's no way to verify their statements. For the record, and you can
post this if you want, I shoot a 280 that was originally a mountain
rifle but has been changed with new barrel and stock. I use that rifle
for most of my hunting and have been using the 139 IB and SST since they
came out. The bullets I use come right out of inventory and I've never
had anyone "pull" special ones for me.
As for the fellow with all the problems and trying to return bullets,
frankly I don't believe it. If we don't get something, of course, we
don't get it and can't do anything about it. It is virtually impossible
to make bullets varying the diameters he says and we don't have tooling
that would allow us to make a 180 grain bullet that measured .311 and
they simply can't vary .004. We also don't have tooling that would allow
us to make a .312 bullet that measures .309-.310. The dies don't exist
and if he knew anything about bullet making he'd know why.
Finally, we only make swaged lead balls and, if he knew anything about
the swaging process, he wouldn't write what he said. It is difficult to
accept one guy would have all that trouble when the rest don't seem to.
And none of his returns made it either? The reality is, if we made
bullets that bad we'd have gone out of business a long long long time
ago.
Can we screw up? Absolutely. Will one guy get that many? I don't think
so.
Steve Hornady
30/30 Man,
I think that itwas nice of Mr Hornady to respond to your request.However I sent two (2) emails to the Hornady website and have been ignored completely.His lettr to you refers to charges that may be questionable;he ignores those that have a high probability of truth.
My opinion of Hornady products is much less today then it was two weeks ago.
I am remijnded of the Hornady dies that I purchased a year or so ago.I threw them out! And then bought a set of RCBS dies.
Frank

"I tend to believe that the gentleman who was supposedly finding different bullet lengths, with the Hornady bullets.....was probably in fact using CASES trimmed to different lengths....and either wasn't aware of it - or didn't want to admit it. I myself have seen a number of my handloads come out with slightly different COL's...eventhough the bullets are being seated to the SAME depth. This is almost certainly because the CASES are of different lengths - not the bullets."

If the seating die is set to a specific depth, how can it matter what length the case is? We are talking about the distance between the shellholder and the seating stem. The only result with differing case lengths would be deeper seating of the bullet in the "longer" cases and shallower seating in the "shorter" ones. As far as crimp amount, being that involves the case itself, that will change with case length either less or more crimp.



Just an observation, I'm not taking sides in the situation.

Regards

This may seem like taking a dead horse to the vet, but I believe that Hornady makes damm fine bullets. I use Hornady, Sierra, and Speer for jacket bullets, both pistol and rifle. Some times one Mfgr in the same type bullet performs better for me, for example my 7mm mag shoots 139 gr Hornady better than the 140 Sierra. They have a excellent C/S dept just call them up for a lively computer message. I have returned dies to them with no questions asked, and exchanged it for bullets, and was given credit at full retail.
Jim

If the seating die is set to a specific depth, how can it matter what length the case is? We are talking about the distance between the shellholder and the seating stem. The only result with differing case lengths would be deeper seating of the bullet in the "longer" cases and shallower seating in the "shorter" ones. As far as crimp amount, being that involves the case itself, that will change with case length either less or more crimp.



Just an observation, I'm not taking sides in the situation.

Regards

If the crimping rim is being contacted on longer cases before the die contacts the shellholder base, and then on shorter cases the base contacts first, then you'll end up with different COL's. If so, a mistake on the part of the loader, not the bulletmaker.

Note: That statement is not directed at anyone in particular as the members here seem to be a more educated bunch in general at the shooting sports, but I think everyone here has made their own mistakes in the past.

Marshall, bullets are pushed into a die that squeezes the jacket down onto the core. As the die wears out, the opening becomes larger.

I'll admit to not having checked several points on the diameters and could possibly buy the "bottom of the pallet deformation" theory but it's not likely.

You can read my reply to Mr. Hornady's letter under the "hornady quality" thread. Nuff said on my part. Only been reloading for 28 years so I'm still a novice.

One thing that I have noticed is that most handloaders who are careful tend to be meticulous in their measurements. When you find something that looks odd, you tend to double and triple check.

People being people can and do make mistakes.

The above being said, Mr. Steve Hornady was gracious enough to write back a "somewhat snotty" reply. Granted, the product bearing his name was called into question, but when I hear about a problem that might be from my work, I try to be VERY solicitous to find out just what the complaint is and work out the problem. I really don't care who created the issue, I just want to solve it as best I can as it is a great customer service/relations moment. Going on the defensive and attacking the complaint aren't the best way of going about business. Not if you intend to stay in it, grow and do better and attract more customers.

Hopefully he was just having a bad day as that does happen to even the best of us.

I am glad I finally read this thread. I have found a difference in the ogive of hornady sp #3040. I was concerned but I measured and all was good and I have used them up. They shot fine.

I thought they were another bullet altogether, they looked so different.

If I was getting poor performance and felt I was getting the run around from a manufacturer, I would give up on them too. Your perseption is your reality and unfortunately, for Hornady in this case, it becomes the manufacturers reality for them also.

I have got great results from Hornady products and their tech staff has been good to me and I am very low volume customer.