After sitting in my safe for over two years, I've finally decided to make a shooter out of my unfired BB 307 Win. Went to the gun show today hoping to find some dies and brass but no way!. You'd think I was asking about a cartridge that was discontinued 100 years ago by the responses I got from vendors. No deals on 308 dies either. So I started checking for this stuff on Midway and discovered that they don't carry brass currently. Graf's does and probably some others that I haven't looked up yet. Eventually I'll probably try some 308 brass but want to get started with the right stuff. I'm not sure yet about which dies to buy. Most of my dies are RCBS but am not closed minded about others. What brand of dies do you 307 shooters use? Especially what do you cast shooters use? I will definitely be picking up a Lee factory crimper...these things are indispensible for the levergunner.

As for loads, I haven't really started thinking much about this yet. I expect that powders that work good in the 308 and 300 Sav will work fine in the 307. Will probably start with some 150 and 170 gr Rem CL flat points. Anybody got pet loads they wouldn't mind sharing?

I'm actually getting a little excited about this. It's almost like I just got a new rifle now that the fear of shooting an investment is gone. After I get an idea of how it's going to shoot I'll probably invest some money in a good set of peeps. All of my other levers have Williams FPs on them.

Well Surprised you had problems finding dies and Brass.
John Lee makes dies for the 307 and at the same time ask for a factory crimp die.
Winchester makes brass , so it will be just a matter of finding , who does carry it.
Bullets require a flat point and powders in the 300 S through 3006 tend to be suitable acording to my Hodgdgon loading manual.

Well the 307 Winchester never lit any fires here in Central Ontario, as it was thought of as a rimmed 308W.
Now that sales of new units are long gone , rifles when ever they are offered as used, command a very good price.

Funny thing , the boys that have a 307 or one of the other big bores , tend to like them.
Now most of them reload as they do not like the factory loads or the price one needs to pay, but they all agree , the rifles put down game.

Well I myself have a 358 W that I reload for also ,for the same reasons above.
Well another cartridge that never hit the charts.Moose /bear /deer wish - they were never made. :mad:

Well so be it . Put a hole where it needs to be , and like the rest of us .
You will have that smile to your face . :D
Be happy

I am using an old set of Pacific dies for jacketed bullets and a set of Lyman dies for cast. I like the Lyman dies as I can mix and match the seating stems.
I use a Lee factory crimp die.

I really like the .307 cartidge.. I may have some loads in Load swap for the cartridge. If I dont have any Varget and Reloader 15 loads for it posted I will enter them.

I have used all of the appropriate jacketed bullets and I believe the 150 grain Barnes X is the best for hunting and group shooting.

The 170 Speer and the 130 grain are very good.

Dies aren't a particular problem as they are just 308 dies. I have a 356 already so have the shell holder. Brass is proving to be another problem. Grafs and LockStock both have them but haven't seen them anywhere else, not that I've checked every source. Midway claims that they've NEVER carried them.

I checked the LoadSwap forum and don't see any of your loads listed Slim. I've used RL15 in the 300 Sav with really good results. Never tried Varget in anything. Barnes bullets are a little pricey for much casual shooting but might give them a try. Don't know what I was thinking about when I mentioned Rem 150 and 180 CLs. These are spitzers, or at least those that I have are. Single feeding them would be ok for range work I guess. Maybe the Speer would be a good compromise. I knew you had a soft spot for this cartridge and had hoped you might offer some advice. Thanks.

Sure didn't take long for the dust to settle on the 307 did it?

"Midway claims that they've NEVER carried them."

I recieved a Midway Flyer today, #220. Page 16 says Product No. 160-348 is 50 each .307 Winchester cases for $14.39.

I would send them an e-mail. I have sent Midway several E-mails over the years and they have answered every one in a resonable manner. Mention the above information and ask them what the problem is!

I checked the LoadSwap forum and don't see any of your loads listed Slim.

I will add some in the next day or so. As you would suspect Reloader 15 will give the highest velocities and Varget will give just a little better accuracy at 50 fps or so slower. no real difference in them.

"Maybe the Speer would be a good compromise. "

The Speer 170 grain flat point is a fine jacketed bullet. I could (and probably have) bore you with stories of this bullet and its performance on our little white tails!

"Sure didn't take long for the dust to settle on the 307 did it"

I have said it several times here. It was the gun writers that killed it. At least Layne Simpson, Ken Waters and Rick Jamison had very good things to say about it.
Will add some data and we can start a conversation. I love to shoot this rifle!

"Midway claims that they've NEVER carried them."

I recieved a Midway Flyer today, #220. Page 16 says Product No. 160-348 is 50 each .307 Winchester cases for $14.39.

I would send them an e-mail. I have sent Midway several E-mails over the years and they have answered every one in a resonable manner. Mention the above information and ask them what the problem is!

Here's the reply I got on Sunday.

"Thank you for the e-mail. I also do not show that we carry brass for the 307 nor do I show that we ever carried brass for the 307. I do apologize for any inconvenience this causes you."

I got the same flier today and looked up what you're talking about...sure looks like 307 Win brass to me! Replied to that email asking what's going on. I buy a lot of stuff from them but in the last few months I've noticed a slow down in service. Particularly I've noticed a lot of backordered items. Not sure if that just means that business is good or that they're not tracking inventory trends closely enough.

I did a search on that product number and up comes the page...but says "Unavailable - seasonal run".

In Speer #11 and #13 I see some loads listed for the 307. Neither one shows any for RL15 that I saw...maybe I didn't look close enough. But this would be surprising since their data for the 300 Sav claims that they got up to 100fps better velocity with RL15 over the other powders listed. Even at that the two show similar velocities. Of course highest velocity doesn't necessarily equate to best accuracy.

Thanks for any load data you can scrounge up. With the CO big game seasons coming up soon I probably won't get much 307 loading done since I still have to fine tune my elk load. But after that I plan to get serious about the 307, assuming life's other interruptions (like work) mind their manners.

Here is some Reloader 15 data. These were all shot in my Model 94 big Bore using Winchester cases and Winchester primers. All were seated to 2.55”.

While you might think the 150 grain Barnes X is expensive (and make no mistake it is!) it is also very accurate in my rifle (and in the .30-30AI) and it will penetrate into next week. It is worth your trouble to experiment with this bullet.
150 grain barnes X with Reloader 15
42.0 grains 2466 fps
43.0 grains 2551 fps – I consider this a MAXIMUM load for the Barnes X and Reloader 15. This load is particularly accurate in my rifle. With the right light and good targets this load has shot a number of three shot groups inside an inch at 100 yards. For me that is real shooting. I wish I could duplicate this on a regular basis.

The 150 grain JRN Remington bulk bullet will surprise you with its consistant performance.
150 grain Remington JRN Reloader 15
43.0 grains 2522 fps
44.0 grain 2591 fps This is a particularly good load. The velocity is the average of 5 different chronograph sessions. This is a consistant, good grouping load in my rifle.
45.0 grains 2645 fps. This is also the average of several chronograph sessions. Right in this area between 44.0 and 45.0 grains everything seems just right in my rifle for excellent accuracy with this bullet and powder.

170 grain JFN Speer and Reloader 15
39.0 grains 2236 fps
40.0 grains 2326 fps
41.0 grains 2395 fps. This is the average of several chronograph sessions with this load and bullet. I like the 170 grain bullet at 2350+ fps or so for our white tail deer.
42.0 grains 2434 fps. This is again, the average of several sessions.
43.0 grains 2525 fps This is the average of several chronograph sessions. This is another happy combination in my rifle.

The Nosler 170 grain round nose partition is not quite as accurate in my rifle as are other bullets. The bullet is not inaccurate but will not shoot the same fine groups as the Barnes X and the Speer bullet. 43.0 grains of Reloader 15 pushes the Nosler partition to 2529 fps in my rifle. One interesting thing about the Nosler bullet is that it has always given me small extreme spreads and standard deviations.

I’ll get these posted in the Load Swap as quick as I can.

I forgot to mention. Ken waters in his .307 winchester Pet Loads Update has some loads for Reloader 15 also.

Just a thought, but if I were going to start loading for a 307 Win, one of the first things that I would do is try a heavy-for-calibure cast bullet in either round or flat nose.

Reasoning?

You can go with a heavier bullet that will have a higher BC than any of the 170gr fp bullets you wil ever see.

You can get about 100 fps more mv from a cast bullet with the same amount of powder as you can from a jacketed bullet with the same amount of powder.

Think about it and give it a try

Sixgun

Slim,

Are there any concerns with the round nosed bullets fed from the magazine? This is one of the few levergun rounds I've read that warning about...the other one that comes to mind is the 356. But it was Winchester who gave these cautions so maybe it's just more lawyer-speak.

Either you have very good eyes or you are using a scope to get those small 100yd groups. The only levergun I currently have that's scoped is a Sav 99. Maybe for load development this would add a new twist for me.

You had any experience with the Lyman or Sierra flat noses? I have tried the Lyman 170gr in my 30-30 and wasn't too impressed.

Six_gun,

Cast bullets are definitely in the future. But since I've not loaded for this cartridge before I'd like to start with established data, most of which is oriented towards jacketed. Your reasoning on this falls in line with what I've always seen with the 375 Win and 45-70. Pressures seem to stay down somewhat with cast due to lowered resistance of a properly fitted bullet. As long as the case will hold more powder it's possible to exceed jacketed performance at the same or lower pressures.

Looks like Midway owned up to their mistake. The current flier has an error in listing 307 brass. They confirmed that it's "seasonal" and not able to backorder (assuming I wanted to). Grafs is probably where I'll order it from.

"Are there any concerns with the round nosed bullets fed from the magazine?"

I have no concerns whatever with round nose bullets in the .307 or the .356. I have shot many round nose bullets in both. I have looked at this some and in the .356, the 200 grain bulk Remington bullets will get a bit of a flat spot on them if left in the magazine on purpose during a shooting session.
I have shot the 311291 round nose cast bullet for many years in the .30-30 with no problems. We have shot the 180 jacketed round nose bullets in the 307 with no problems. We felt we were giving up to much to the 170's and stopped that.


"Either you have very good eyes or you are using a scope to get those small 100yd groups."

I have very poor eyesight. I use a variety of low power scopes and good square flat black targets on white paper. This set up helps prevent canting. I'll say that it is a lot easier to shoot a good three shot group with a lever rifle than a good five shot group! Doing everything the same five shots in a row is a near impossibility!


"You had any experience with the Lyman or Sierra flat noses? I have tried the Lyman 170gr in my 30-30 and wasn't too impressed."

I prefer the Lee 170 grain flat nose to the Lyman. Just me perhaps. ENGLANDER has the Lyman and has done some good shooting qith the bullet in his Marlin.
I prefer the big round nose Lyman 311291. The problem with this bullet is that it must be seated a little deeper than I prefer to chamber smoothly in the .30-30 and the .307.
I have shot a lot of paper patch bullets in the .307 using my NEI 162 grain paper patch mold. The cartridge responds very well to paper patch bullets.

If you ever run short of brass the .307 and the .356 are easily made from .444 Marlin cases. It is no problem at all. the reformed cases work fine through the action and your load data is interchangeable. The only problem is the two cases have a different point of impact and thus cannot be mixed.

We have several long and interesting threads on Beartooth about group shooting with lever action rifles. My goal is to someday shoot as well as Greg Mushial Greg can even shoot the BIG BOOMERS well. Of course he has paid for it with some dntal work...

You might want to look at Wideners Reloading and Shooting Supplies in East Tenn, they list the 307 as having 224 on hand @ $14.20 per 50
http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?startrow=25&dir=278|282|285|379

have delt with them some for IMI 308 Match brass with no problems

Also this link has about 147 different loads for the 307 .
the site is sponsored by Handloader and Rifle Magazine
http://www.loaddata.com/members/listing.cfm?type=2

Also check this site, they have some in stock:

http://www.bosesguns.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=674