I finally got to shoot my new BFR in 45-70 and I had shot almost a full box of Winchester ammo through, then got out some of my reloads. Well, I had two misfires out of about eight rounds, and in both instances the primer detonated with enough force to lodge the bullet in the rifling but the powder did not ignite either time. I have about 60 more rounds of reloads and before I start pulling them down I thought I would gather some ideas. The reloads are all W-W brass, Hornady 300JHP, CCI Lg rifle primers and 45 gr of Reloder 7 powder. The chambers on the BFR must be very close spec, because not all of the reloads will chamber, though they cycle fine in my bolt rifle. The spilled powder was partially dark and partially pale in the color of the granules, maybe a bad batch of powder?? Any thoughts or ideas will be appreciated, because in all my years of reloading I have NEVER had a FTF from a cartridge that had everything in it. Thanks!

My first thought would be bad powder. If the primer fired with enough force to push the bullet into the barrel it probably is the powder.

I would side with P97 on this one Teach. Do you know the history of the powder? You might try to light a thimble full up in a small can with a paper match ( in a very safe way) just to see how the powder behaves. Most powders will light easy and burn fast, easy, and clean.
The handloading forum may yield more results in this matter.
Cheezywan

Sounds like low pressure loads that, given the venting of the barrel/cylinder gap, do not produce enough pressure to make the powder burn... wouldn't be a problem in a rifle.

I finally got to shoot my new BFR in 45-70 and I had shot almost a full box of Winchester ammo through, then got out some of my reloads. Well, I had two misfires out of about eight rounds, and in both instances the primer detonated with enough force to lodge the bullet in the rifling but the powder did not ignite either time. I have about 60 more rounds of reloads and before I start pulling them down I thought I would gather some ideas. The reloads are all W-W brass, Hornady 300JHP, CCI Lg rifle primers and 45 gr of Reloder 7 powder. The chambers on the BFR must be very close spec, because not all of the reloads will chamber, though they cycle fine in my bolt rifle. The spilled powder was partially dark and partially pale in the color of the granules, maybe a bad batch of powder?? Any thoughts or ideas will be appreciated, because in all my years of reloading I have NEVER had a FTF from a cartridge that had everything in it. Thanks!

Teach

Welcome to the forum. Rules are simple be nice and join in.

Now for your problem. If you open your powder container and smell of it and it has a sour smell it may be bad powder. I sure would compare the looks and smell to a powder in a new container to see if there was a difference.

I've never had that kind of experience either. I've a primer not detonate and my hunting buddy stuck a bullet in the bore from not getting a full charge of powder in a case. I got to think you might have some bad powder also.

Sometimes, a heavily compressed load will not ignite properly and a plug of pressed powder will actually protrude from the case mouth while the bullet is wedged in the bore. Don't believe this is your case, however, as the 45 gr load wouldn't be compressed unless the 300 gr bullets were very deeply seated.

Might try using a mag primer for a hotter flash.

Had this happen before; just posted on the subject with a guy wanting to use slow rifle powders in a .44mag. Don't know if i'd call it a missfire...the primer did fire...more like an unexpectely low pressure event.

IDea here is that there is a LOT of room for the bullet to move before finding the resistance of rifling. Not like a rifle chamber whee the rifling starts just a fraction of an inch ahead of the bullet's bearing area, in a revolver the bullet has to pass through the cylinder throat and forcing cone before meeting any real resistance (and the cylinder gap belleds off some pressure along the way).

So what happens is that the internal volume increases faster than the presure can build.....primer alone can move the bullet out of the case, and with the sudden increase in volume the pressure can actually drop...pressure drops low enough and the fire can kind of "go out".

Have had that happen in one 45/70 rifle with a very long throat.

Powder is an odd color, kind of a translucent melted look, and often melted into a kind of semi-hard mass.

Best advice is to stop using that load...stop like right now....is some danger in the ones that partly go out, and then restart with the bullet lodged partly in teh barrel. Besides, under the conditoons you describe, that ammo can't be all that accurate....disassemble it.


Cures?

Can try anything that increase initial resistance or initial ignitoon...large bullet...tighter bullet/case fit by way of a smaller expander...firmer crimp...hotter primer....any and all combination of those.

Confining the poweder to ther ear of the case will proably cure it...use a filler, but taht also has some risks.


Personally, I'd look for another combination of bullet/primer/powder that just didn't give me the problem.

Wow, that is all excellent advice! Ribbonstone, I do beleive you have hit the nail on the head with your description of the powder condition. These loads are from the Lymon book for modern lever rifles and work fine in my bolt action. Have only had the problem in the BFR. The powder was bought new from a reliable dealer, so I don't think it is bad. I pulled a couple of reloads down last night and the powder looked fine. I think, due to the chambering issues with the reloads, I will stick to the factory WW 300JHP loads for the BFR. It has digested them readily with no problems to date..should be more than sufficient for deer hunting at short ranges. When time allows I will investigate some other powders that will fill the case volume better and give them a whirl, but now I have to focus on blackpowder season...Thanks again for all the great advice!!

PS The load is very accurate in my rifle.... :D

Good call ribbonstone. Did you make it in and out of N.O. OK?
It is really not any of my buisiness but I have been thinking about you and what you needed to face.
Regards to all,
Cheezywan

Good call ribbonstone. Did you make it in and out of N.O. OK?
It is really not any of my buisiness but I have been thinking about you and what you needed to face.
Regards to all,
Cheezywan

We're doing OK...living with mother-in-law as I need to be close to N.O. for my wife's job (figuring one job better than no job). Working hard to get mom-in-law's place back up in good condition...cutting trees, hauling out a destroyed shed...soon to try my hand at replacing a water heater....haouling mountians of trash (which use to be not-trash)...scrapng up carpet...taking care of mom-in-law (who is 87)...etc. Busy days.


My house is gone...just got the pictures I shot last week back; aint' no prettier on film. Don't have a way to post those right now...and you'd really not want to see them.

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One of the reasons guns "ka-boom" can be traced to the proablem of internal volume incresing faster than the pressure of a given cahrge. IF the bullet is free to move long distances before meeting any real resistance, that expansion can so drastly decrease pressure that ingintion fails.

BUT

If presure were to fall very low, having the bullet stop partly engraved by teh rifleing...but instead of "going out", if it were to suddenly start up again...when the pressure starts the second time, peaks, and finds a lodged bullet a good way down the bore, it evidently gets real ugly real fast.


NOT that I think that is the explaination of every SEE event, it is one of the reasons for some of them.

Just a couple of comments, good reading all. 1st you did not have any misfires with factory loads. You are a competent reloader these are both a given. Now for some of my expierience, any pistol with a large amount of slow burning powder requires a heavy crimp for reliable ignition. If not the problem you have described will occur. Unburnt powder, and a round stuck in the bbl, primer spent. Now for the cure. LEE FACTORY CRIMP die. This will cure your problem, of misfires.

Thanks, I ahve never tried those dies, but have heard a lot of positives. If nothing else, I can mic the removed bullets and find out my groove diameter, bu this is probably not the best method for slugging a barrel for dimensions. Maybe without the powder...hmmm

Teach the first time I saw that occur was from a ruger blackhawk 44 mag, the fella shooting it wanted to borrow anything that would fit down his bbl so he could pound out the slug. For some reason I had a 3/8ths bolt long enough in the back of my truck. It was the only item in the bed beside my guns and ammo. He did get several slugs he could measure his bore with. At the time I was shooting a .44 mag rifle using the same loading. Heavy dose of WW296 and knew they had to be crimped heavy. Hope it cures your problem, you most likely could get away with a heavier crimp with your standard dies, but the lee is not too reliant on a particular length like most dies. Also it is very easy to set, should you get into cast you will love the factory crimp. Many use it when they want to either extend beyond the crimp groove or seat the bullet deeper, and it still holds the bullet reliably.