I have a model 70 black shadow in 7mm mag, and I was woundering if I could change barrels/calibers/stocks. Most parts that I see online are from deluxe models or other names. Are these compatable? Would I have to change stocks to put a bull barrel on? There does not seem to be any clearence to attach a thicker barrel. Does anyone know what calibers my long action bolt/reciver is compatable with? (there is nothing in Mississippi that requires anthing close to the power of a 7mm mag) Are there any other affordable tricks to accurize my baby. I am looking to get 1/3 inch moa. Is the 70 a good gun to work with or should I try somthing else?

If it were a wood stock, then all you would need to do is apply some elboe grease...since its tupperware, well...I would look at one of the higher-end stock manufactures...Fajen comes to mind...McMillan for sure...

The Model 70, IMO is one of the finer actions you can work with...and plenty of extra goodies out there to help you tweak it out to whatever spec you want...

the 7mm bullet is a wonderful place to start when it comes to excellent accuracy. But you sound as if your going to change out barrels but want to keep the original bolt face...this means you can use any one of the "standard" belted case magnums...you can go with an H&H Magnums or a 300 Win Mag, your 7 Mag, a 338 WinMag and there are others out there...my choice would be the 338. its not too overbore for its powder capacity, and to be sure you can take anything in North America and much of the world with that caliber. What it all boils down to is what your willing to spend.

D

I really like the M70's, but I've never tried the Black Shadow. Before you go to the expense of doing a lot of changes to yours, there are some other alternatives you could try to maximize the potential of what you already have. Most out of the box M70's have a pretty heavy trigger pull weight, but this can easily be safely adjusted down to 3 lbs. or so. This would probably help it a lot.

Also, check the bedding. My M70 Featherweight came from the factory with an epoxy like stuff that must not have been mixed properly, and had a soft, mushy like consistency, something like "hot glue". I re-did the bedding, and this also helped the accuracy.

Finally, if you don't need the power of the 7mm Mag, have you tried working-up some reduced power handloads? You could probably come up with something your rifle shoots really well at lower velocities. Take all the money you saved from not doing the conversion, and buy another rifle in a different caliber! IMHO.

I don't know how you define 1/3 MOA capability, but to get a gun that consistently (not one that has done it once or twice) shoots 5 shot 1/3 MOA groups is really difficult and will probably require more than just changing out barrels and stocks and using a long action cartridge, especially a belted magnum is probably not the best choice to achieve the bench rest accuracy you want. You may want to check out http://www.benchrest.com/ for info on this type of accuracy.

What is wrong with the belted magnums? I know that they have proven that the belt itself is usless, but I have never heard that they hinder accuracy. And who says that changing calabers is expensive? the chamber is inside the barrel, and I have seen new barrels in the box for $30-$40. Oh and I can get a wooden stock off of e-bay for $22 with shiping would that be a good idea if I was to put a heavier barrel on it, and how much more accurate would a heave barrel be than my 26" slim barrel? As you can tell I am trying to build this thing up on a budget. My model 70 is probably as accurate as it ever needs to be for hunting, but I am a nit-pick, I shot a 6.5-inch ten shot group at three hundred yards with an plain-jane unscoped m-16 with factory rounds. I am a good shot and I love to hit exactly where I aim that is why I am being so picky. Thanks for being so patient and helpfull with all my rookie questions, I have just started learning about modifacations and I am intrested in the science of it. Oh and one other intresting thing that I have heard, somebody told me that high speed calibers like the 7mmSTW will tear the grooves out of a barrel after as few as 500 shots is that true?

the high velocity cartridges have generally had a bad go of press about the fact that they burn barrels and such...


You can lengthen the life of the barrel by simply making sure that you CLEAN it at least somewhat often...

The most slammed caliber I can think of was the old 220 Swift. It was a monster barrel burner...gun rags tore into it saying that Winchester made a horrible mistake by commercializing that caliber.

Then someone found that by cleaning the barrel after shooting a box of ammo, and not letting the barrel get too friggin' hot, well...it lasted longer.

So even if there is a possibility of you shooting out a barrel, its not likely if you arm yourself with a good Dewey rod and jag.

7 STW is a good caliber...as well as some wildcats like the 30-338 WM and others...

I have also seen a wildcat based on the WSM case necked up to 416...looked like good medicine for any kinda critter...but I guess your not for hunting?

D

No don't get me wrong I am all about hunting, I just don't mind carrying a 15-20lbs gun all day. For crying out loud I have done a 22.5mile ruck march in the Army with full tach gear: m16, ammo, food, mop gear, flack vest, and a sandbad. all totaling about 70-80 lbs. I don't think there is a gun out there I could not carry all day. Anyway I would not mind changing barrels every 2-3 thousand shots, do you think that a high quality barrel can handle that many 7STWs or 7mm rem mags?

Kachok,
Do you understand that even though the "chamber is inside the barrel" you still have to set the headspace on a model 70 when switching barrels? You just can't take a barrel off one gun and put it on another one without resetting the headspace which will require going to a gunsmith who has a chamber reamer for whatever cartridge you are rebarreling to. Barrel life is very much determined by excessive heat. If you shoot rapidly with large magnums you will wear out a barrel very quickly, irregardless of it's quality.It is impossible to predict how much better a heavy barrel will shoot compared to your slim one - it should be better, but who knows by how much. If I was looking for 1/3 MOA I know I wouldn't bother with a $30 barrel. It's hard to learn all the theory behind building an accurate rifle on a forum like this. You may want to consider buying a good book on the subject.

I have heard people say that their guns had interchangeable barrels with different calabers for example the Thompson Centerfire model guns, and the Savage 110. what is it about the bolt on a 70 that makes it different? Oh and I was not planning on buying a $30 barrel hoping to get match grade accuracy, I was just stating that it was no huge financial investment in change the calaber in a rifle. Do you have any good books that you would recomend to anwser my questions?

Kachok,
Do you understand that even though the "chamber is inside the barrel" you still have to set the headspace on a model 70 when switching barrels? You just can't take a barrel off one gun and put it on another one without resetting the headspace which will require going to a gunsmith who has a chamber reamer for whatever cartridge you are rebarreling to. Barrel life is very much determined by excessive heat. If you shoot rapidly with large magnums you will wear out a barrel very quickly, irregardless of it's quality.It is impossible to predict how much better a heavy barrel will shoot compared to your slim one - it should be better, but who knows by how much. If I was looking for 1/3 MOA I know I wouldn't bother with a $30 barrel. It's hard to learn all the theory behind building an accurate rifle on a forum like this. You may want to consider buying a good book on the subject.

Can anybody clear somthing up for me? I know the 7mm Mag is flat shooting, but One person on this thread told me that it is an good cartrage for high accuracy and I should keep the caliber that I have, and someone else says that the belted mags are inaccurate. can somone clear this up I am a noob to this and cannot deal with conflicting information.

OK, let's break this down into a couple of catagories:

1) Savage and a couple of european bolt action rifles are the only ones with intrachangeable barrels. Any other will be a custom "swap-barrel" rifle. The standard Remington, Ruger, Whichester, Tikka, Sako, et al, will only come with one barrel that must be removed by a gunsmith when changing out.

2) There's nothing wrong with the accuracy of belted case cartridges. The 300 Win Mag and the 338 Win Mag are noted for their inherent accuracy. The 7mm Rem Mag is a good shooter, also. The problem with belted cases is the fact the factory fresh ammo headspaces on the belt leaving the forward part of the cartridge and bullet to sorta "free-float" in the chamber. This can lead to bullet misalignment with the bore if the cartridge isn't exactly centered with the bore. To eliminate this, a handloaded once-fired case (FOR THAT PARTICULAR CHAMBER) that is neck sized only will chamber and align not only with the belt at the far end of the case, but on the shoulder, too. This gives you positive alignment, providing the chamber is cut on center with the bore and the bullet has been seated concentric with the case, and will give the utmost in accuracy, even more than the conventional case that headspaces on the shoulder only.

Hope this helps you with your concerns.

He mentioned my sweetheart....the Contender/Encore food group. :)


Here is the deal with those babies...lets work with the Encore...as it will come chambered in the belted magnums you seem to have a hankering for...



First...any single shot will be SLIGHTLY less accurate due to having to break the action after every shot in comparison to a regular bolt rifle..does this make a single shot less desireable? No not in my oppinion...I have a 12" 223 with a 4x32 scope that will make most people that shoot high dollar bolt rifles with mega-dollar 30mm tube glass feel like doo-doo. At 100 yards, that is.

NOW...you talking about barrel swapping, the main claim to fame for my toys...well, each barrel has its scope attached to it permanently...therefore no nasty issues with re-zeroing any glass.

IF you are looking for the kind of flexibility that goes with these babies...from a 12" pistol shooting the 500 Smith and Wesson, a few minutes at the tailgate of your truck and voila! you have a 375 H&H 26" barrel and some beautiful walnut stock and heavy target forend with a nice Leupy 2-7 sitting on it...and its still the same frame...then get an Encore...buy it as a "package" PISTOL first...so that you can placate all the friggin lawyer-types...and from there you can switch it from pistol to rifle...and you can go from the 22 hornet all the way up to a 460 Weatherby with an Encore...so there is a bit of choice with it. :)

D

I am not sure what you consider a major finacial investement, but rebarrel/rechambering isn't usually a cheap proposition. Rebarreling usually involves the purchase of a blank, then the barrel has to be finished and blued then headspaced, I had a gunsmith quote me a price one time on rebarrelling my 223 with a douglas XX air gauged barrel and it was close to $400 and this gunsmith is not an expensive one. Winchester makes a great gun, certainly a decent platform to start from. If you wanted to put a different barrel on, you could start with a Boyd's Stock I am a fan of the JRS classic. another option would be to trade the winchester in on a Savage (or even a Stevens) and build up a custom from there, I just overhauled a brand new stevens for a custom for myself, I kept the barreled action, put a JRS classic on it (about 70 bucks), timney trigger for (60 bucks)