There is alot of talk about short action and long actions, other than the lengh of cartrage they use what is the difference?

Length of bolt/reciever. A few ounces here and a few there...more rigid on the shorties...

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There is alot of talk about short action and long actions, other than the lengh of cartrage they use what is the difference?

Like the fella said the long actions have a longer bolt and action. Most factories make an action that will fit the cartridge intended to be shot in it.

Actions that will fit the 375 H&H length cartridges for example are waisted on a 308 length cartridge. There are several standard length actions available.

Winchester and Browning have an action for their new Super short magnums.
223 and 243 Win super short mag for example

They have an action for their short magnums
270, 300 and 325 Win Short magnums for example

Most everyone has an action designed for 308 length cartridges.
243, 260, 7mm-08, 308, 358 Win cases for example

Most everyone has a 30-06 length action, these also fit most of the magnums in the 7mm Rem, 300 Win mag length
270, 280, 30-06, 35 Whalen, 7mm Rem, 300 Rem, 308 Norma mag, 358 Norma mag for example

The next step up is the 375 H&H length action. This fits most of the long mags and the new Remington Ultra mag cases.
300 RUM, 8mm Rem Mag, 375 H&H mag for example.

The big one on the market is the Weatherby designed to fit the 460 Weatherby mag and the cartridges spawned off that case.
30-378 Weatherby mag, 378 Weatherby mag, 460 Weatherby mag for example.

I havn't included all the cases and cartridges of course, but just a sample.

There are several arguments bandied about length of action and speed and how ridged they are and how much weight is saved, but after a lot of years of shooting I've found most arn't really valid.

I shoot both long magnum actions, 30-06 length actions and 308 length actions and speed of action and weight are non arguments. As far as hunting accuracy it also does not make any difference.

If your bench rest competition shooting your probably going to use a solid bottom action which is much more redgid than any action with a magazine cut in it reguardless of length.

The best I can tell you is select the cartridge you want to shoot based on the game and hunting conditions you will hunt in. The cartridge length will determine what action length your rifle will come in.

While there isn't much difference in overall weight or length, I DO find there is a difference in the feel, or balance. I prefer a short action, and shoot one better when shooting offhand. From a rest it makes no difference to me.

It depends on the person. I have shot a bolt .30-06 for 25+ years. I can cycle it very quicky - quicker than I can a lever gun. I can't imagine I would be too much quicker with a .308 length action.

One thing, regardless of action length, you should get a Classic Win M70 or Mauser style controlled feed so you don't have to worry about ever short stroking or double feeding. I heard an interview recently of an Alaskan guide who was badly mauled by a bear. He put one .416 Rem in the bread basket but the bear still got to him and did a lot of damage before dying. He said he short stroked on his second shot. Makes me think he should trade his Remington in for a Classic Model 70 or R77MK2. Short stroking on a deer is not any fun (I did that once with my Vanguard), but with a huge angry wounded bear coming at you through the brush, there is no margin for error!

While there isn't much difference in overall weight or length, I DO find there is a difference in the feel, or balance. I prefer a short action, and shoot one better when shooting offhand. From a rest it makes no difference to me. I also prefer the more rearward balance of a short action. I was surprised to learn the Sako 75 long action is around 11 ounces more than the short action, though that's an exception, I think. Most are no more than a few ounces difference.

Jaywalker

It depends on the person. I have shot a bolt .30-06 for 25+ years. I can cycle it very quicky - quicker than I can a lever gun. I can't imagine I would be too much quicker with a .308 length action.

One thing, regardless of action length, you should get a Classic Win M70 or Mauser style controlled feed so you don't have to worry about ever short stroking or double feeding. I heard an interview recently of an Alaskan guide who was badly mauled by a bear. He put one .416 Rem in the bread basket but the bear still got to him and did a lot of damage before dying. He said he short stroked on his second shot. Makes me think he should trade his Remington in for a Classic Model 70 or R77MK2. Short stroking on a deer is not any fun (I did that once with my Vanguard), but with a huge angry wounded bear coming at you through the brush, there is no margin for error!

SHort stroking confuses me. I've done it for a followup shot on an elk w/ my Rem 30-06, but I'm not sure what really happened and how a controlled round feed would have made a difference. If you don't pull the bolt back far enough to eject the spent cartridge, what difference does it make whether it's a Rem or Win action?

leverite,
There is a difference, as regards short-stroking the two differnet action types. With the push feed, usually having the plunger-type ejector, the round ejects as soon as the cartridge case clears the ejection port opening, as the bolt travels rearward. This might not be enough travel for the bolt to pick up the next round, on the return stroke. I have done this before, by accident of course, with a Rem. 700. With a CRF action, the standing ejector is far enough to the rear that the cartridge case is not ejected until the bolt is nearly at the limit of it's rearward travel. So, short-stroking would mean that the empty case would not have been ejected - a clear sign. Of course, this does not prevent one from short-stroking the rifle, but it is a clear visual sign of something wrong....as there would be no case flying out of the ejection port. With the push-feed design (with a plunger ejector)...the case would eject anyway....so it is possible to re-close the bolt, on an empty chamber (while believing that another round has been chambered). I know, I have done it.

I've never been charged by more than a angry coon, but I have worked a bolt action in a hurry trying to dispatch fleeing wounded animals. I've come close to jerking the bolt out of the gun, but can't think of a single time when the bolt was not pulled suficiently rearward to pick up a round. I've never fully grasped this great debate. No round in the chamber is no round in the chamber right? A visual clue of a un ejected case does me no wordly good other than to give those that recover my body a hint as to why I got got! "Yup, saw it right off short stroked his bolt".

I've never been charged by more than a angry coon, but I have worked a bolt action in a hurry trying to dispatch fleeing wounded animals. I've come close to jerking the bolt out of the gun, but can't think of a single time when the bolt was not pulled suficiently rearward to pick up a round. I've never fully grasped this great debate. No round in the chamber is no round in the chamber right? A visual clue of a un ejected case does me no wordly good other than to give those that recover my body a hint as to why I got got! "Yup, saw it right off short stroked his bolt".

After over 40 years of hunting and a lot of it done with Remingtons I've got to agree with you 100 percent. I know anything is possible as I know a fella that somehow ran over himself with his own car.

I've often hurried to get another round in the chamber but that bolt stops when it gets to the back of the action every time. I don't remember ever seeing the ejected case coming out.

I've had bolt action Winchesters, Remingtons, Sakos, Mausers, CZ,s, Weatherby's, Rugers, Springfields and probably several others I can't remember. They all seemed to work as advertised. My only suggestion is that if you use a bolt action as intended it seems to work most of the time.

If you've ever had this happen I would suggest you practice more with that weapon til you become profecient at using the action, safety and trigger without having to look at it and take your eyes off the game your shooting at.

If you do feel uncomfortable with a push feed bolt action rifle, then go for the Winnie, Ruger, CZ or Mauser. Price is really about the same for them all.

I agree and have learned that practice is the key. The one time I short stroked was with a brand new rifle, my first Rem bolt. Apparently, signing the credit card slip, mounting a scope and sighting in was not enough practice...hmmm

When the blood's up, you work by habit. In my case, the only time I consciously thought was when I pulled the trigger on the follow up shot and nothing happened. Head scratchin'...a quick, full cycle of the bolt...but by then the critter was down and out anyway from shot #1...thankfully.

Although...I bet that short stroking is less common for 308 length actions.

Not to throw a dog into the fight, but there are some benefits to the short action ... but they are not BIG benefits, as some would have you believe. They are a few ounces lighter, the stroke is shorter (about 1/2"), and they are stiffer - which some argue helps to increase, or at least maintain accuracy. Now, you have to ask yourself ... Are you building an ultra lightweight rifle where every oz. counts? Can you really not cycle the long action bolt quickly enough for your hunting needs to get that follow-up shot off? Is your long action bolt rifle not accurate enough? IMHO, most people are not effected by these differences ... but they are differences, and they are in favor of the short action ... But to me, making a 95% on my test instead of making a 98% ... well, they are both still "A"s, aren't they ?

SHort stroking confuses me. I've done it for a followup shot on an elk w/ my Rem 30-06, but I'm not sure what really happened and how a controlled round feed would have made a difference. If you don't pull the bolt back far enough to eject the spent cartridge, what difference does it make whether it's a Rem or Win action?

If you rack either back all the way there should be no problem. On the Model 70's controlled feed action, if you pull it back far enough to eject the previous case, the extractor claw HAS the next round, end of question.

On the Rem 700 and similar designs, you can pull the bolt far enough back to eject the spent case, but not far enough back to feed the next round. You push only air forward into the chamber.

If you rack either back all the way there should be no problem. On the Model 70's controlled feed action, if you pull it back far enough to eject the previous case, the extractor claw HAS the next round, end of question.

On the Rem 700 and similar designs, you can pull the bolt far enough back to eject the spent case, but not far enough back to feed the next round. You push only air forward into the chamber.

I was raised on Mauser bolt actions, and my first real experience of a push-feed action was a few years ago when I got a good deal on a Weatherby Vangurad (Howa). All of a sudden, I was short-stroking every other round. That's when I discovered that the Mausers had allowed me to slide into sloppy technique, pulling the bolt far enough to eject the empty and snag the next round but not fully cycling the bolt. Once I adapted myself to fully cycling the bolt, as I should, I have had no complaints with the pushfeed.

pisgah I think your on to something there. I was started on a push feed, and most likely developed "muscle memory" for this type of bolt. As several folks said, practice is what makes the difference when things get hot.

I certainly agree that practice with one's particular rifle is of the greatest importance. As to the visual clue of the ejecting case... I always see it in my peripheral vision. I am not sure why others don't....but it does serve me well...at least as a sign that I haven't short-stroked my Mauser.

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