I would like to know what you Model 70 push feed Winchester fans say about your actions and how would you compare them to the Reminton Model 700. Smoother,accurate and extraction problems? I have not heard to much about the two Big Rifle companies in this regard.

There has been a lot of discussion on this forum about the push feed subject, especially for dangerous game. I would suggest you do a search.

personally I shoot Remingtons and did so in Alaska for five years and did not have a problem, but I've heard stories of folks in a bind with dangerous game short stroking a push feed bolt rifle and having it jam.

That seems to be the argument against the push feed rifles such as the Remington and Sako.

I've never had this kind of experience so can't comment on how often it happens. I know for sure that if it did happen to me I might want to think carefully about the gun I used if it were going to be used in situations where my life may depend upon it.

I've spent almost 46 years hunting and most of that was with a Remington push feed actions. I can't think of once in that time I've ever had a Remington or Sako jam, or a Remington bolt fall off (another proposed Remington fault).

I do think the Winchester's are good rifles. I don't buy Ruger 77's anymore simply because of the nasty unajustable trigger they put on them. I just refuse to believe that if even savage can make a gun with a decent trigger in todays lawsuit plagued era Ruger can't. Oh and the Savage is also a push feed action.

I would like to know what you Model 70 push feed Winchester fans say about your actions and how would you compare them to the Reminton Model 700. Smoother,accurate and extraction problems? I have not heard to much about the two Big Rifle companies in this regard.
Griz,
I don't know if I've ever seen a comparative article done on the PF M70 vs. the 700. I think MikeG has one of the M70 PF's and am pretty sure he has a 700 or two as well, maybe he can comment on the differences. I nearly bought a Featherweight XTR M70 PF several years ago in 7x57, probably should have but didn't have the coins for the asking price. I did like the fact the M70 PF retained the 3 position safety. Can't comment on the quality, dependability or accuracy of the M70 PF's, though. I have owned a few 700's and well, let's just say I'll stick with other makes.

I am very aware of the arguments of the two "types" of actions and I figure if I done a search it would involve these two specific types-controlled/pushfeed. I personally have never seen a Remington underfire ever fail nor an extractor for that matter either and I figure if animals are bigger than you you're rifle is crucial to existance or for a healthy fit life as well. I was hoping to see what is with the Winchester Model 670 version as I picked one up in an .06 caliber for a 100bucks and want to do something to it and know too the reliability and function of it is all. Another project gun - maybe a .358 Norma Mag.in the model of a 670A. Question can a pushfeed threaded Model 70 barrel interchange with the existing threads of this Model 670A?

I am very aware of the arguments of the two "types" of actions and I figure if I done a search it would involve these two specific types-controlled/pushfeed. I personally have never seen a Remington underfire ever fail nor an extractor for that matter either and I figure if animals are bigger than you you're rifle is crucial to existance or for a healthy fit life as well. I was hoping to see what is with the Winchester Model 670 version as I picked one up in an .06 caliber for a 100bucks and want to do something to it and know too the reliability and function of it is all. Another project gun - maybe a .358 Norma Mag.in the model of a 670A. Question can a pushfeed threaded Model 70 barrel interchange with the existing threads of this Model 670A?

grizz

You might want to check with Brownell's tech section. They can answer that question for you I think. When I started hunting I built a 308 Norma mag on a mauser commercial 98 action, 26 inch Hobough barrel, Fagen stock. Made a nice gun and killed a lot of elk and deer.

I thought about the 358 Norma at the time, but living in Idaho finally settled on the 308 Norma. That gun is still in my family and my niece's husband is still taking elk and deer with it almost 40 years later. I had it chambered without the free-bore and it has lasted a long time done that way.

grizz,
I own one push-feed Mod 70 "XTR" in 25-06, mid-70's vintage, and I've never had any troubles with it. Always feeds and performs flawlessly. I'm sorry that I can't comment on the new crop of Mod 70's PF's as I haven't any experience with them.

I've handled and shot several recent Mod 700's and they are nice as well, but I don't own any recent ones. Rem 700's have the slickest action IMO. Maybe it will come down to fit & feel, and 3-position vs 2-position safety for you.

I've got two push feed M70's, a Sporter in .270 Roy and a Winlite Featherweight in .280. These would be late 80's-early 90's rifles. The .280 shoots Federal Premium 140gr TBBC's into a half inch for three shots (too bad they quit making these!). I have had zero problems with either of those, or the CF M70's for that matter. Three position safety alone makes it a better hunting rifle than most in my book, especially the M700. I'm a M70-M98 guy so I'm pretty biased.

What exactly is the difference...I've always been under the notion that you rack it back and forth and you'll never have a problem... I never have...

What exactly is the difference...I've always been under the notion that you rack it back and forth and you'll never have a problem... I never have...

If you rack either back all the way there should be no problem. On the Model 70's controlled feed action, if you pull it back far enough to eject the previous case, the extractor claw HAS the next round, end of question.

On the Rem 700 and similar designs, you can pull the bolt far enough back to eject the spent case, but not far enough back to feed the next round. You push only air forward into the chamber. This is called short stroking.

You would think this never happens, but I read an article recently of an Alaskan guide who short stroked his .416 Rem on a charging bear. It tore him up pretty good before dying of the first shot he had already put in it. If you are excited, especially if you have heavy clothing on, or you are in a lot of brush, a cramped tree stand etc, it can happen.

i swear i've seen conversions to remington bolts to make them CF with a big extractor claw...

Also.. for anyone that's done it.. what exactly is involved to put an aftermarket 3 position swing safety on a 700... Brownells carries these and i've often thought about putting one on one of my 700's but i just havn't gotten to it.. maybe in the dead of this winter...

If you rack either back all the way there should be no problem. On the Model 70's controlled feed action, if you pull it back far enough to eject the previous case, the extractor claw HAS the next round, end of question.

On the Rem 700 and similar designs, you can pull the bolt far enough back to eject the spent case, but not far enough back to feed the next round. You push only air forward into the chamber. This is called short stroking.

You would think this never happens, but I read an article recently of an Alaskan guide who short stroked his .416 Rem on a charging bear. It tore him up pretty good before dying of the first shot he had already put in it. If you are excited, especially if you have heavy clothing on, or you are in a lot of brush, a cramped tree stand etc, it can happen.
I've had that happen on my 700 in '06. Wasn't in a "crisis" situation, but it's a bit unnerving to get a click and not a boom when you know you've only fired the first of three rounds. Part of the problem is my rifle's magazine box is rather long. Great for loading heavier, long COL cartridges, but if they sit all the way back, you'll miss picking up the next round.

What exactly is the difference...I've always been under the notion that you rack it back and forth and you'll never have a problem... I never have...
alright, some wordings do not change but this "racking" does. We are still on the subject of pushfeed Model 670/70 correct? I got a kick out of the thread being Hijacked :D

I've owned both 700's and PF 70's. Accuracy, reliability, etc. is a toss-up in my opinion - it depends more on the individual rifle than on the design.

The M70 has the advantage of the three position safety which blocks the firing pin, and is also field strippable without ANY tools. No pin or nail, no coin, no hard surface to push against, nothing. Having had a firing pin freeze in slushy weather, I find this to be the most important difference.

i had a Win 670 when i was a kid. it was my only centerfire for years and it never failed me. i believe the only differences are in the cosmetics like no engine turning on the bolt body, the bolt handle does not have the little checkered band around it and so on. aside from the finish and the obviously cheaper stock everything else seemed M70 all the way. even had the great winchester trigger. i used this gun for everything, including a big 'ol blackie at spitting distance and really liked it. i traded it off for a heavier caliber after the bear episode tho...

monty

Hello,
Both designs work just fine and personally believe that whether push feed or claw type extractor, the user needs practice w/ either one that precludes any failure to pull the bolt back far enough to pick up another round when pushed forward. Do all shooters do that, no and that is a problem.

Some points to keep in mind that the Rem. 700 is being used as we speak for the most serious of work with a rifle and that is killing the enemy of our Nation. It is highly modified but it is nonetheless, a push feed bolt action weapon. AR15 extractor, mechanically attached bolt handle, two allen head screws hold onto bolt body, bases for optics firmly attached, as in welded to receiver, highest quality barrels, tuned triggers, etc. etc., but it is a Rem. 700 rifle. If you open up the Rem. web site and tap into the LE/Mil. section you can see some pics of the rifle offered to our military, but few civilians can afford $9-12,000.oo for a rifle package. As others have mentioned, I have used the Rem. 700 in both sporting applications and non sporting applications and have no reservations at all of "going afield..." with the push feed Rem. 700 rifle.

I have a Win. Model 70 push feed set up for long range work and the 'smith that did the barrel work contacted me and asked me to visit his shop and showed me the extreme steps/machining he had to do in order to align the barrel threads of the receiver to that of the barrel itself. In short, the action was not even close to being "true" and required a lot of work to correct. One of the reasons you will see many times more Rem 700 actions or its clones on the firing line at Camp Perry, Quantico, Ft. Benning, etc. than just about any other action type, easy to work on, tons of aftermarket parts available and endless stock styles to fit about any application.
The Rem. 700 is just about as close to the "chevy" of the gun world as anything out there.

Someone mentioned that they saw a Remington with a big claw extractor and back in the dark ages of 1917-1930+ Remington used the monster action with a claw extractor. 1917 Enfield and sporterized to be the Rem. Model 30 and the much desired Rem. Model 720(not common at all)

In closing, like both mfg.s of rifles a lot, but seem to always end up using the Remington 700 for more "chores" than any other. Just me I guess.
dsiteman
Favor Center!!

dsiteman, that was a very strong analogy of the Rem and hope with the Model 70 push is not true with all and perhaps with just that particular rifle. later

I've had that happen on my 700 in '06. Wasn't in a "crisis" situation, but it's a bit unnerving to get a click and not a boom when you know you've only fired the first of three rounds. Part of the problem is my rifle's magazine box is rather long. Great for loading heavier, long COL cartridges, but if they sit all the way back, you'll miss picking up the next round.

The same thing happened to me once with my Vangard. It is a bit unnerving.

On the my model 70 featherweight 06, once the previous round is ejected, the claw HAS the new round, period! I like that. I like that it shoots 3/4" groups even better! Only bad thing is the recoil (when I have the BOSS CR plug in bruises me pretty good after 10-12 shots). With the standard BOSS brake on, it kicks like a .243, but sounds like a cannon. I went to the CR plug for hunting because I was tired of my ears ringing for a week after each opening morning of deer season.

Of course my buddy has a Rem M700 BDL in .308 that you'd swear was a .300 mag when you shoot 180 bullets out of it. Worst kicking .308 in history. the stock must be poorly balanced or designed.

The M70 has the advantage of the three position safety which blocks the firing pin, and is also field strippable without ANY tools. No pin or nail, no coin, no hard surface to push against, nothing. Having had a firing pin freeze in slushy weather, I find this to be the most important difference.

Is the tool-less disassembly of the bolt a feature of the CRF version as well?

Is the tool-less disassembly of the bolt a feature of the CRF version as well?

Yes, you take the bolt apart exactly the same for both models.

I have never had a problem with any of my push feeds but I have had a problem with a 'controlled' feed Mauser that failed to pick up the round and pushed it into the chamber ahead of the bolt face. Nothing to do then but start looking for a rod to push it out with.

I have never had a problem with any of my push feeds but I have had a problem with a 'controlled' feed Mauser that failed to pick up the round and pushed it into the chamber ahead of the bolt face. Nothing to do then but start looking for a rod to push it out with.

I've heard of this happening with the Springfield '03's as well, but all of the Mausers (military) I've used to build 3 different rifles so far have had enough of a bevel on the front of the extractor claw so that it rides up the base of the brass and snaps over.

I have never had a problem with any of my push feeds but I have had a problem with a 'controlled' feed Mauser that failed to pick up the round and pushed it into the chamber ahead of the bolt face. Nothing to do then but start looking for a rod to push it out with.


Have the same complaint as BAGTIC...mauser type extractors aen't really drop one in the chamber firendly. Gridning on the extractor can fix this, but seldm really as easy closing as push-feed systems. That's a long complext spring, and it has to be made just right and tempered just right to work...grinding it to ride up over the rim and smap back down in place may just stress one that isn't quite perfect into failure.

Broke three of them (how many push-feeds have i broken? one), all were modified to ride up over the case rim...all of them snapped in 1/2, probably from the extra effort that modificatin produced.

IF the extractor is made that way (and some commercial ones were, fine and dandy...if you intend modifcation to one, better order a spare to keep on hand.

I'm sort of in the opposite ball park. No problems with my Mauser/Springfield actions (my Springfield I modified to ride over the rim if necessary), but I did have one jam/feed failure with my son's Remington 700 CDL. Once, while shooting prone on the ground, I canted the rifle to the left while feeding a round, and the round dropped to the side as it popped out of the magazine (before it could make it into the chamber), locking up the action. I am not knocking the 700 - it's an excellent rifle, but it did make me think I would prefer a CRF rifle for any situation in which I could be munched. :)

Shot my buck this year with my Rem mod. 30 in 300 H&H and still had six doe tags so I dug out my win 70 push feed {new 1972} and it still is one the best shooting 270's I own never any problems and like the safety better than Remington700's. Had a Rem in the safe but such a lousy trigger won't use it till I replace it.

I bought a used Rem. 700/30-06 in the mid-1960's and have used it ever since. I have NEVER had a feeding or extraction problem. It's accuracy exceeds my marksmanship but I could overflow a pick-up truck with the deer, antelope and elk I have taken with it.

While we are at it, it has never misfired even though the safety must be disengaged to work the action.

I have never fired a Winchester or any other controlled-feed rifle. I just know the Rem. 700 has worked flawlessly for me for over 40 years.

I would like to know what you Model 70 push feed Winchester fans say about your actions and how would you compare them to the Reminton Model 700. Smoother,accurate and extraction problems? I have not heard to much about the two Big Rifle companies in this regard.

I had a Win Model 70 push feed 30-06 that never gave trouble except that getting the ammo out of it for the truck ride took a full stroke or else!

I now have a Win Mod 70 old claw type that gets the unfired shells out with serious under stroke. As does my Mauser, with great alacrity. And my Ruger does ok too. Ruger has fixed the Model 77 trigger by the way :)

Try this test and see which you would rather have when facing a Lion!