Got a new 77 MII Sporter (SS/Laminate) in .308 and have only put one box (of the green) through it. Question is this: the bolt / firing pin assembly seems a bit loose in the action, both when it is empty and when it is locked and loaded. The bolt handle has more play when fully locked than other 77s I've seen, and the bolt sleeve seems to be a bit loose in terms of its connection to the bolt. I haven't yet disassembled it fully for cleaning and reassembly.

Any thoughts on this? Anyone have a similar action?


Shael

Shael, Welcome to the forum.

Give Ruger a call and describe what is going on. There really good about fixing their guns. I can't quite picture what your saying, it almost sounds like the firing pin/rear housing on the bolt is screwed out one turn.

I would dissamble and clean the bolt and firing pin/spring and reassemble it as in any new gun and see where that takes you.

I'd agree in calling Ruger. Some of those symptoms just don't make sense. I read this earlier and thought the cocking piece may be backed out one turn. Just now I tried that on own MKII 308, but the firing pin spring load still does not allow the looseness that you describe. The firing pin protrudes enough to fire, also.

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6928/m77bedding0024ly.jpg
Hope things work out for. I do like Rugers, Gene

By "bolt sleeve", do you mean the extractor? The Ruger bolt body is one-piece; it has no sleeve. Another question - when the bolt is cocked and closed, with the safety off, does the bolt wiggle easily when you grab the bolt knob with forefinger and thumb and move it back and forth? Don't worry so much about up and down, but if the bolt moves a lot under the conditions I described, a call to Ruger is definitely in order. Some play is normal when the action is uncocked, but when cocked and ready to fire, there should be little to no lateral movement.
Good luck!

Well, now I'm confused. The component that I _thought_ was called the "bolt sleeve" is the outer casing on the very rear of the bolt assembly, which I believe encloses the rear of the firing pin. This outer casing is loose, in that it may be twisted slightly from side to side while the bolt is kept still.

To answer IDShooter's question, when the weapon is cocked the bolt is not loose in that in has play along the axis of the barrel. When it is not cocked, it does.


Shael.

Shael,
OK, now I know what you mean - we are just using different terminology. What you are calling sleeve, I call a cocking piece. (I was thinking of a sleeve like the one that covers the bolt body in a Browning A-Bolt) Doesn't matter which name we use, as long as we're talking about the same piece!

Anyway, now that I understand, I don't think you have anything to worry about. The kind of play you describe is quite common in the Ruger design. It would only be problematic if it occurred when the bolt was cocked. Do check to be sure the cocking piece is screwed all the way in, as above posters mentioned. Otherwise, I think you are good to go!

Believe the terminology you're looking for is shroud. That's the piece of metal at the end of the bolt body that the rear of the firing pin protrudes from.

Have a bunch of Rugers in my vaults - none have ever had a wiggle to the back of the bolt.

Interesting, kdub. Every one I've messed with wiggles to some degree. In fact, John Barsness addressed the Ruger wiggle in either Rifle or Handloader magazine (Rifle, more likely.) I believe his writing was in response to a reader's question, but I don't remember exactly.

Thanks, guys.

I do understand that all Mauser actions have some degree of bolt-wiggle when the bolt is retracted, by design and as a function of the looser tolerances which allow operation even under duress (dust, grit, dirt, etc.). The wiggle in the cocking piece / shroud is different.

I am going to try to find the article you mentioned. If it doesn't address the issue I (think I) am having, I'll go to Ruger directly.

You know, I posted this question on three other forums and not a soul responded.

I appreciate that you did.


Shael

Shael,
I agree that this is one, if not the best of the shooting forums. There is one forumhowever, in which you can ask John Barsness directly about the article he wrote, and more than likely he will answer, and that is the Gunwriters forum on 24hourcampfire. I like that forum because some of the better writers (John Barsness, Phil Shoemaker etc.) peruse and answer questions directed at them. The General discussion area I find to be an allout brawl most of the time, and you might want to avoid it. I do.

Shael,
I agree that this is one, if not the best of the shooting forums. There is one forumhowever, in which you can ask John Barsness directly about the article he wrote, and more than likely he will answer, and that is the Gunwriters forum on 24hourcampfire. I like that forum because some of the better writers (John Barsness, Phil Shoemaker etc.) peruse and answer questions directed at them. The General discussion area I find to be an allout brawl most of the time, and you might want to avoid it. I do.

MikeJ - Thanks for the directions.... I'll stop by that forum and see if I can't scare up a copy of the article.


Shael.

Shael,

I agree with IDShooter. I have a number of Ruger firearms, and I've handled many others over the years. Ruger makes a great gun for the money, and they can be very accurate, but the situation you're describing is something you run into quite often if you look at a lot of their rifles, pistols, and shotguns. This is one of the reasons I usually check out a Ruger very carefully before buying.

I've noticed this wobbly bolt phenomenom on a lot of the M77 bolt action rifles. Also, if you compare a lot of their shotguns side by side, quite often you'll see the metal parts standing proud from each other. You can even see this in some of the pictures Ruger has of their over/under shotguns in their catalog. They are usually, however, all within Ruger's acceptable tolerances.

I think it's because most of the parts are investment cast, and there's just a little variation from one to another. Some of these parts simply mate up better better than others. As an example, if you look at a flat area on a Ruger handgun, such as the side of the frame, and hold it up to a bright light to look at the reflection of the light at an oblique angle, you'll see ripples like the reflection you see of something in a pond. If you hold up a gun such as a Smith & Wesson, where most of the parts are CNC milled, the reflection will be more like what you see in a mirror, without the ripples. I think this is because as the investment cast piece cools, certain areas cool at different rates and therefore shrink unevenly, resulting in the ripply look.

In most cases, this shouldn't cause a problem, but if you have two parts that are both undersized mated together, it can result in a looser fit. If the wobbly bolt on yours is as bad as you describe, I would go back to my dealer or contact Ruger directly. Ruger is usually very good about dealing with customer complaints.

Shael,

I agree with IDShooter. I have a number of Ruger firearms, and I've handled many others over the years. Ruger makes a great gun for the money, and they can be very accurate, but the situation you're describing is something you run into quite often if you look at a lot of their rifles, pistols, and shotguns. This is one of the reasons I usually check out a Ruger very carefully before buying.

I've noticed this wobbly bolt phenomenom on a lot of the M77 bolt action rifles. Also, if you compare a lot of their shotguns side by side, quite often you'll see the metal parts standing proud from each other. You can even see this in some of the pictures Ruger has of their over/under shotguns in their catalog. They are usually, however, all within Ruger's acceptable tolerances.

I think it's because most of the parts are investment cast, and there's just a little variation from one to another. Some of these parts simply mate up better better than others. As an example, if you look at a flat area on a Ruger handgun, such as the side of the frame, and hold it up to a bright light to look at the reflection of the light at an oblique angle, you'll see ripples like the reflection you see of something in a pond. If you hold up a gun such as a Smith & Wesson, where most of the parts are CNC milled, the reflection will be more like what you see in a mirror, without the ripples. I think this is because as the investment cast piece cools, certain areas cool at different rates and therefore shrink unevenly, resulting in the ripply look.

In most cases, this shouldn't cause a problem, but if you have two parts that are both undersized mated together, it can result in a looser fit. If the wobbly bolt on yours is as bad as you describe, I would go back to my dealer or contact Ruger directly. Ruger is usually very good about dealing with customer complaints.


That is exactly my next step.

Shael

Well, I guess I'm still in a quandry as to what condition you folks seem so concerned about.

Just went to the vaults and pulled out all the Rugers and compared the end shake and slop in the bolt shroud to both large and small ring Mausers and a pre-war M70. The Rugers had no more and sometimes less play in the shroud than the others.

If these fit no-tolerance tight, you'd have an awful time lifting the bolt handle to make an extraction.

Maybe I'm just not picky enough to be concerned about the situation. Anyway, the first M77 purchased was a 7mm Rem Mag in 1972 and its still in the safe today - shoots real good, too! The last Ruger was a M77/22 in .22 Hornet. Another fine shooter.

kdub said "Well, I guess I'm still in a quandry as to what condition you folks seem so concerned about."

I agree, kdub. It's a common condition and I really doubt there is anything to be concerned about. However, without having the rifle in my hands, it's impossible to say that with certainty. I think a call to Ruger would be a reasonable step if an owner were concerned.