While serving in several marksmanship units while doing my twenty in the Army we taught and tried to apply constant and continous pressure on the trigger until the hammer fell. I wonder if that is still the advice of better shooters out there. I have difficulty applying this general rule with the lawyer triggers that come with most factory rifles today. The Savage Accur-trigger is an exception to this. I need help in understanding why hunting rifle makers such as Remington, Winchester, Ruger etc. has to supply their rifles with triggers which will either be replaced with an after market assembly or re-worked by a gunsmith to achieve something which can be fired accurately by the ordinary person. While a marksmanship armorer (gunsmith) for years I did several thousand trigger jobs on rifles and pistols and the Master and distinguished shooters were all in agreement that the trigger was a vital factor on shooting well. I think it a shame that lawyers and fear of lawsuits makes the average hunter suffer with using an inferior set up. Certainly the people making the rifles have the knowledge and ability to supply us with a trigger that we can easily use. I am on the soap box here because it is time that it is accepted and expected that any firearm in the hands of an unsafe person will be dangerous. Sorry for being so wordy and rambling but I am old and more than a little disgusted with the trigger products we are getting over the counter. It isn't for me only because I can do my own trigger work or install a better system.

I'll second that. The majority of new rifles have triggers that just plain suck as they come from the box. Not saying the trigger is sloppy or creepy, just VERY heavy. The last 2 M70's I've purchased, thankfully they have the adjustable trigger, couldn't even be measured on my trigger pull gauge as they came from the box. The area where this is truly unfortunate is when you need to actually replace the trigger (Ruger) in order to get a decent pull...not to mention the non-bolt action rifles. I've heard of some new M700's where the trigger adjustments really dont' do anything...don't know if that is now the norm or just a couple of isolated occurences.

Ozark Whittler, right on brother!
I have argued this same argument for a long time, still the manufacturers do what they wish because...
As far as rifles go, I think the only thing I will buy from now on is the Savage. It will need a stock but really that is about all, the trigger can be adjusted, the bolt head can be changed to meet just about any need out there, the bbls. heck they are a snap, install a recoil lug, glass bed and you are well on the way. just wish it were easier to drill and tap the receiver for 8x40 screws, and oh yes a tactical bolt knob.
Now you have the makings of a real fine tactical or brush rig, whatever you want.
Halfbreed

A question out of the wild-blue....I wonder if the manufacturers feel that some liability is transfered to the owner/gunsmith by selling these triggers that need work? I do know one thing, there isn't a gun company in existence that builds a rifle that satisfies everyone. I can't think of a single brand that I haven't heard some complaint or horror story about. Maybe it's all dollars and cents. Maybe it's so hard to build a rifle that will appeal to everyone that the companies figure they are selling you the raw materials to modify into your idea of perfection without incurring additional costs themselves. As long as people keep buying what is offered and the gun companies make a profit, I doubt there will be any change.

If I listed the ingredients for "my" perfect rifle, I wonder how many would throw rocks in my direction?

None the less Sir, you raise a valid complaint.

A question out of the wild-blue....I wonder if the manufacturers feel that some liability is transfered to the owner/gunsmith by selling these triggers that need work? I do know one thing, there isn't a gun company in existence that builds a rifle that satisfies everyone. I can't think of a single brand that I haven't heard some complaint or horror story about. Maybe it's all dollars and cents. Maybe it's so hard to build a rifle that will appeal to everyone that the companies figure they are selling you the raw materials to modify into your idea of perfection without incurring additional costs themselves. As long as people keep buying what is offered and the gun companies make a profit, I doubt there will be any change.

If I listed the ingredients for "my" perfect rifle, I wonder how many would throw rocks in my direction?

None the less Sir, you raise a valid complaint.


I'd be happy with a good, clean 3.5-4lb trigger from the box....haven't laid hands on many that would even come close to that in a long time. I understand you can't satisfy everyone, but a good trigger, lets say a clean 4lbs, would hurt no one who should handle metal kitchen ustensils, much less a rifle. There is no excuse, from my point of view, which is biased, why you shouldn't be able to go plunk down your $500+ for a decent rifle and not have to take it to a gunsmith for trigger work. I know that many of us, myself included, can make an adjustment or replace a trigger....but why should we need to.

Forget bolt guns, which mostly have sucky triggers unless they say Savage, go pick up a M94 Winchester. There was a post showing just how many lever guns are being sold these days, with the popularity of CAS it is hardly believable. You would think that a manufacturer, knowing that the rifles are more likely than not destined for competitive shooting, could put a HALF decent trigger in them. Maybe the M94 trigger isn't a fair gripe since they are hard to make decent no matter what, but it goes across the board...and we all KNOW a Marlin can have an excellent trigger. How about a new Ruger #1? Hardly your garden variety rifle, almost surely purchased by a shooter. It isn't too hard to see where it can cost a good 1/3 the cost of the rifle to get a decent trigger in many cases...and in this day and age of optical sights...it is the THE most single important factor in how well the buyer will shoot the rifle. I don't inlcude practice in that equations as that cannot be influenced by rifle design and execution.

I would throw no stones at you for what you would like in a rifle, but I hardly believe it would include a gritty, sloppy, 8-10lb trigger...or even a good clean 8-10lb trigger. A M70, M700, M94, M336...etc, etc...isn't a plastic POS pistol and shouldn't have a trigger like one! I'm done ranting, and I feel much better.:)

You have to give credit to Savage for the Accu-trigger. They've identified and engineered around the problem. They realized that the old trigger setups are inadequate if they aren't good out of the box.

One old factory gun I have comes with a double-set trigger that meets both criteria. With trigger set, it trips at about 8 oz (or about the perfect, "whoa, it went off!). Un-set, it's ~6lbs.

(Need to give Winchester 1/4 credit for sticking with the M70 trigger - at least you can tune it yourself. But, 99% of the hunters won't/can't, so...)

Ozark

Depending on the rifle most triggers are adjustable in some way. Remington and Winchester bolt actions are in fact easily adjustable and with a minimum of work will and can have exceptional triggers. Check out the sticky's in the gunsmith section. Ruger 77's can be fixed, though for under a hundred dollars an adjustable trigger can be installed.

Most rifles from the factory need some sort of trigger adjustment and even "non-adjustable" triggers like the Ruger 77's and most lever gun triggers can be made acceptable by a competent gunsmith.

If your not able to adjust an adjustable trigger yourself or have a rifle with an non adjustable trigger that needs the trigger pull reduced to a reasonable level take it to a gunsmith and have that done. It is well worth the small investment.

I've got to say I've quite buying Ruger rifles because of the non-adjustable trigger. Most every manufacture of bolt action rifles seems to be able to make an adjustable trigger and market it with their guns. I just can't understand why Ruger refuses to do so.

Of course if you want to spend the bucks there are some really beautiful after market triggers. I personally like the Canjur single set. It gives you a great hunting trigger breaking from 1.5 to 5 pounds like a standard trigger and with a push of the trigger forward a set trigger breaking at ounces. Other trigger makers such as Jewel, Timney and Dayton Traister to mention a few all have an answer to a poor factory trigger.

Would have to agree with you kciH, trigger would not be a heavy gritty clunker like we often find these days. The "why" is still an interesting question though. Why don't the manufacturers listen? A crummy trigger is not exactly an industrial secret. We can all solve the problem one way or another but in keeping with the point of this thread, we shouldn't have to but you have to admit, they keep selling because we keep buying. I still think it's a matter of money. Too many of us respond to "cheaper" instead of demanding and paying for quality. I'm as guilty as anybody else because I figure somewhere down the road I'm going to replace the trigger, square up the action, replace the barrel, bed or replace the stock and then what do I have......probably the rifle I should have insisted on buying in the first place.

Bad triggers seems to touch a raw nerve on many shooters. Since Savage has come out with a trigger that is at least acceptable perhaps the others will have to follow suit or fall behind. Bad triggers contribute to the wounding of game and contributes to needless animal suffering. Good hunters have a strong desire to properly place the bullet for a clean quick kill. It is a matter of pride to hit the mark we aim for. I believe that the time has come when they either furnish a decent trigger on their products or lose a great deal of business. I hope for the shooter/hunter satisfaction that this proves correct.

Ozarkwhittler, I know that when I initially purchased my Remington 700 BDL the acronym B.R.A.S.S (breath, relax, aim, sight, sqeeze)would cause you to pass out before the trigger would break! Anxiosly anticipating the shot, turning blue'r by the minute I would start to jerk and then to flench. Thank goodness I know good ole gun guys. My 700 now trips at a crisp 3.5lbs, which for me is perfect.

Ozarkwhittler,
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the major manufacturers to change their ways. The lawyers and beancounters run things nowadays. Factory triggers are indeed set to lawsuit specs, and any modification thereof voids warranties and relieves said manufacturer of liability for just about any accident. Besides, if the general hunting public are like a good portion of the members of my hunting club, they're not going to realize the benefits of a good trigger regardless. Most can't hit a bull in the a$$ with a bass fiddle, much less a deer or hog at 50 yards. Trust me when I tell you this. If I hear another guy tell me about how his rifle has been "boresighted" and is ready to go I think I'll puke. I've watched this for years now, and to be quite honest, I don't believe that alot of "hunters" out there are worthy of the game that they pursue.

I understand the disgust and frustration you feel mikej. What you say is the naked truth but we cannot give up hope. My one shot kills with perfectly placed hits has influnced a few hunters who are now following my example. Waiting for a good shot opportunity, performing a good shot and being able to call the precise location the bullet entered the animal makes the whole experience much better. Please don't puke here on the forum mikej. I try to avoid seeing, hearing or doing that number. If you can't accurately call the shot then the shot isn't as accurate as it needs to be. I have judged you to be among those of us who does it right. Can the majority of hunters in you club hit the side of a barn while shooting from inside? oz

As much as I love a good trigger from the factory, I would guess that installing a heavy trigger on a gun keeps the law suits down, which in turn keeps prices down. As long as the trigger has a clean/crisp let off and is adjustable for pull weight, I have no problems with buying a rifle with a heavier trigger. A simple turn of the screw driver drops the pull where I want, the heavier pull keeps the lawyers happy and the prices lower, and those who don't know or care enough to make an adjustment are kept a little safer. :) My son's Remington 700 and my 1885's were all easily adjusted to a decent pull weight. My CZ 550 uses a little different approach, having a set trigger installed from the factory. I believe it's adjustable as well, but mine was set well enough I saw no need to tinker with it. Standard pull is around 4 lbs, but push the trigger forward and the pull weight drops to less than a lb. If I have a choice, an adjustable trigger will factor highly in my choice of rifle.

The worst example of a trigger I've ever seen is on my youngest son's Winchester 800X pellet gun. We measured the pull at around 14 lbs!!! The gun is otherwise an accurate, precision, barrel-cocking air rifle, but trying to pull through that horendous trigger is an exercise in frustration. Even worse, it's welded to the action, so it can't be replaced or adjusted.

I've shot with rifles that were in the 8-10lb range and found good accuracy. It all got down to practice and muscle developement. If you shoot a lot them muscles build and heavy triggers though apparent are not a bad hinderence. That being said I do prefer a very light trigger on my hunting weapons, 7mm/06 wildcat 8oz, 30-30 marlin 24oz, 38-550 marlin 2.5lbs none of the above ever gets lent out, I did that once and a friend has a large chip of concrete out of his garage floor. My loaner for family is a .35 rem marlin with a 4lb pull my son is the only one I allow to use it and he is an expierienced rifleman, with benchrest shooting and down to my 1oz trigger remington bench gun. I have made adjustable triggers by welding threaded pieces to military triggers, and drilled and tapped triggers for 788 rems, though they are easily adjusted using shims under the back end of the trigger screw.