There was a real jerk at our public range today. He kept shooting while everyone waited to go down and check their target. He and his friend were both big mouthed and vulger.

After putting my target up and we started shooting, I shot once and looked at my target and there were two holes in it.
I said to him then that someone is shooting at the wrong target. He just gave me a funny look.
At the second shot, I now had four holes in the target. So since everyone had ear muffs on, I yelled," HEY, your shooting at the wrong target". I got back an answer that would have got my blood to boiling 20 years ago.
I told him he was dangerous and moved down to the far end of the range to finish.
There was no range master on duty. and there were about 25 people shooting on that range alone. Probably 50 in all.
This was Alpine Shooting Range which is a big public range here in the city

Is there any standards for business that operate shooting ranges? Their actions weren't dangerous, but their attitudes sure were.
Just curious if anyone has had anything like that happen

If you are on a "public" range you have to deal with the "public", all of it unfortunately. Not too much you can do if there is no official there to supervise things.

There is no bad attitude that a properly executed rifle butt to the head won't cure...but that would probably cause more problems than it would solve.

I'd look for a private range and become a member, member accountablility is quite a big thing with the private ranges I've been a member of over the years.

a few years back when a good friend of mine was working at a range that always had 3 or 4 range officers on duty all the time the line was called cold and for every body to put there guns down and make them safe and step back behind the red line that was abput 3 ft from the bench every body then could go down range and check there targets which I did on the way back fron the 50 yd line a shot rang out and I hit the deck before I could say a word there wear 3 range officers on the man that fired the shot and one was at my side asking where I was hit which buy the way I wasn't the man that fired the shot was escorted off the range and was told not to return ever that was the only time that I had a problem on that range Forest Punch

I would say that you could shoot his target back, but I won't because that might escalate tempers which isn't advisable when handling firearms. I agree ... you were dealing with a first class jerk who sounds like he hasn't made it past grade school mentality. I have to say though, I have never encountered a range without a range officer, except shooting informally on private property. I'm surprised.

Sorry to hear of your problems, Tom.

Can't imagine a public range with no one in charge. Sounds like a recipe for disaster! :eek:

At the club range where I work, the General (Public) range ALWAYS has at least one Range Safety Officer on the line at all times. Usually, there's at least two and sometimes as many as four, depending on time of day and number of shooters. We have 36 concrete shooting benches and 3 trap throwers on the General range.

A red line is painted in front of the benches which no one or body part crosses during the live fire segments. There is a yellow line painted behind the benches that everyone stays behind during cease-fire segments. Woe betide the individual that messes around the bench and especially if they handle a firearm during the cease-fire. This goes even for encased firearms. ABSOLUTELY no handling of a firearm under ANY circumstance during a cease-fire.

The live fire is normally operated in 15 minute increments. A One Minute Warning is given prior to the cease-fire command to allow shooters time to fire whatever is in the chamber, clear and empty the firearm, lay it on the bench with muzzle pointed downrange and step back behind the yellow line.

The Range Safety Officers walk the firing line to assure all firearms are properly opened, empty and pointed downrange. When all are found safe, the line is allowed to go forward to change or put up targets and to collect spent brass. There is no time limit on a cease fire. Takes time for some to navigate to the 300 yd line (they can drive out on a provided road) and back, plus there's always some that are tardy in running out fresh targets. We patiently wait for everyone to return and get behind the yellow line before making the line hot for another timed firing session.

Discourteous, billigerent, or uncooperative individuals are first warned, then escorted from the premisis by armed Range Safety Officers if they persist. Safety is the key word at our range and the shooting public are encouraged to report any violation witnessed.

We operate a minimum of 10 hours a day, every day of the year except New Year's, Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Knocking on wood, we've never had a gunshot wound. Have had injuries caused by blown up firearms, however, nothing requiring more than first aid, to date.

Sounds like you should find out just who's supposed to be running or taking care of the public range and see if a little oversight can't be restored.

I've only seen two kinds of ranges here.

"Formal" ranges, both private & public, that always have at least one no nonsense Rangemaster on duty. Everyone has to sign in before they shoot.

And "informal" ranges that are simply open areas where anyone can shoot. No rangemasters. I stay away from these ranges because of the problems.

Shooting on private property, if you have the owner's permission, is usually not a problem.

Here in our area there are very few shooting ranges at all. Usually it's the closet closed gravel pit. We do have one range open to the public located on a State managment area. It has only five firing points and so is not hard to see want is going on around and down range. Saftey is the responsibilty of the shooter. I have witnessed several "born shooters" do some really dumb stuff. If it's unsafe and the individual and friends are not intrested in learning better I load-up and leave.

The only public ranges nearby here are on National Forest land, and they are unattended. They are nicely set up, but a friend and I bought land and put together our own range several years back. Going to the public ranges was just too much of a crapshoot. Some days we'd have it all to ourselves, or shared it with only a few other safe shooters. Other days, the places would be packed with crazies who had as much "right" to be there as we did.

Personally, I came too close to being shot on 2 occaisions. The first time I was there along with a man with his young son. Didn't know the folks, but they seemed very nice and I was heartened to see a Dad teaching his boy. First time we took a break to change targets, I had just reached the 100-yard line when a shot whizzed by my head. My first reaction was to give he two of 'em a good piece of my mind, but then I saw the father was doing his job and reaming the boy a new one for firing with a man downrange. Turned into a good lesson for all involved, thank God. The second time it happened a group of morons was whooping it up with a couple of AK variants, and thought it was FUNNY when I hit the dirt at the target butts as they cut loose with a volley of 6-8 shots. I packed up, left, and haven't been back.

Anger and a shooting range are a disaster in the making. A very easy thing to remember is make sure the other guy is the one that is in the wrong. One other item I always do is I hang three times as many targets as I need. Encourage others to use them. I always bring extra earplugs as a goodwill gesture when visiting the public or my clubs range. I've ran into my share of the nasties at my range and a few public ranges. The ones I dislike the most is the ones that leave steel cased 7.62X39 cases laying around and bang them off like it was a war zone. Our club range is blackpowder oriented and we have steel targets hanging at various ranges for the all lead muzzle loader projectiles. I've personally made and hung 3 inch thick targets for the the centerfire shooters and labled them as such, when I see our blackpowder targets with neat fmj holes and a bunch of steel casings laying around it makes me angry and try for a club ruling of no AKs or SKSs allowed on the range but then not all are slobs so I won't. The second amendment alas has no provisions for idiots or slobs.

I shoot at the Ben Avery range north of Phoenix (sounds like the one Kdub is talking about), and have been very glad to see how well the rules are enforced. At first it seemed a bit too regimented, but after seeing them escort two groups of yahoos off the primises, I'm happy to comply. I do enjoy an occasional trip to the desert to "blow things up", but am real careful around other shooters when I don't know who they are and there is no range officer.

AZ223 - I work at the Rio Salado Sportsmans Club (Usury Pass) range NE of Mesa.

Last I was at an un-attended public range was in PA on the game lands. Used to be a very nice range and years ago a friend and I spent the whole day cleaning it up and doing some repairs to the wooden benches and target holders. Next trip about two weekends later we put sealer on all the wood and once again cleaned up numerous bags of garbage and casings. Figured we were doing our part to maintain the range. Returned a couple days later to finally get some shooting done but instead found one of the benches ripped apart, more trash & casings all over the place and probably 3-4 cases of broken beer bottles around the target holders. Didn't even shoot, too disgusted with the slobs.

Similar problems at the private club range too. Trash, casings, slobbery in general. Got tired of cleaning up after these bozo's too and this combined with other problems caused me to quit the club too.

Did the remainder of my shooting in the coal mines when everyone was gone for the weekend. Was a good thing too because I went from being limited to 100 yards max range to a max of 1800yds however I never shot anything past 800. Nothing better than being totally alone, not having to worry about anyone else shooting and slinging lead as far as you please!

Now I have a 150 yd range in my back yard I share with my wife and boys.

Returned a couple days later to finally get some shooting done but instead found one of the benches ripped apart, more trash & casings all over the place and probably 3-4 cases of broken beer bottles around the target holders. Didn't even shoot, too disgusted with the slobs.
Yeah, same kind of folks you don't want to follow in public restrooms, and litter on the highways. Will never understand these kinds of folk, ... just accept the fact that they do exist and, unfortunately, they're allowed to vote and breath up perfectly good air :rolleyes:. The American Shooting Center range [ http://www.amshootcenters.com/ ] in Houston keeps a tight rein on safety and their rates are very reasonable.

Yeah, there is a PGC range near my house, not controlled, never shot there, its always too busy. I belong to a gun club alot closer than the PGC range (about 5 mins) and I live on a hundred acre farm so can set up an improvised range pretty quickly and I have a semi-permanent range set up down by the pond. When I build my new house, I am putting a gun room on the back and I am having at least a 100 and ideally a 200 yard range face out from the back of the gun room so I can open up the window and shoot from the warm

Hello,
I've done quite a bit of shooting in rock quarries and sand pits and met the 'Wackos' that are there.And my Club had a range on private land,with permission.This range was in the Black Rock Forest,(somewhat remote)and never had a Rangemaster,except when we held competive shoots.It could be considered a 'Public range',and I ran into some bad actors there.A guy with one of the first AK's that I saw,almost killed me while I was putting up my 100 yard target.
We also had 'Paramilitary'groups shooting all sorts of military hardware,including,full auto and homemade mortars.
About 20 years ago,My Club bought land and built fireing ranges on it.I haven't seen a real'Nut'here,yet,but there is no Rangemaster except for scheduled shoots and Weekends.
We do have members who are rude and ignorant,and we have had dangerous incidents that I did'nt see.
But the gate is always locked,and every one must show proof of membership on demand,so most shooters are on good behaviour.I look foreward to meeting people on the range;I usually shoot alone.
Frank

Gringo,
Have to give a second thumbs up on the American Shooting Center located in Bush Park in Houston Texas. Grade A as a range even though stupid is alive and well in Houston as well. They have range officers that manage both educated shooters and those that have none!
They have annual memberships that make shooting per gun at no cost, 10% discount on merchandise, no extra charge to shoot steel targets. Family plan is even better. Bring up to 2 guests a month for free. WoW!
Greg

It is funny but the yahoos can be anybody. I was on the pistol range a couple weeks ago. At first, there were 5 of us shooting, but soon I was alone. No big deal, still follow the rules. Just good practice for when you aren't alone, even if it looks silly to call clear to go down range, stand back from the benches, then clear to fire and return to benches when done servicing targets.
I was joined by one person I know professionally, with a guest, and another couple. In the process of everyone getting set up, I noticed that neither couple was following the rules, and being abiguous on the firing line isn't smart, sane or healthy. I was talking with the fellow I knew who happens to be a LEO and I asked him if he was shooting today on an annual pass, day pass or gratis as professional courtesy.
He replied annual pass.
I was a bit surprised as one of the things we go through every year when we purchase an annual is "the lecture". it basically is a review of the range rules that are posted and of the admonition that for those of us who have been here a while to help out with the newbies, keep an eye on things and help to enforce rules when a rangemaster isn't on site and handy. To make a long story short, when he called, "Clear", I stopped in the middle of a mag change, set everything down and asked him what he meant as we had all just returned from servicing targets and cleared to fire. He had no idea what I meant when I asked him if I meant was he asking for clear to fire or clear to go down range! After talking with him, I realized he did not know what the rules governing safety were there, and I just packed up and left at that point. I did stop in and speak with Marty who was managing that day and let him know what was going on at the shack so he could go out and deal with things.

I don't want to deal with any confusion or lack of clarity concerning the rules that help keep me safe. I have no problem packing up and walking away just so I can come back another day. It just impressed upon me even further that the "yahoos" can be anyone, even those who's understanding of the basic sules should be crystal clear.

tpv- Sir I think you did the best you could under the circumstances. Personally I would try to find who (there has to be some governing body) is in charge of this range and let them know there was no range officer. Just my opinion.

Take Charge And Make It A Safe And Sane Day For All And Teach A Few Rules. When In Doubt Shout Stop And Explain A Few Things It's Very Common To Have Confusion And When Talking About Safety And Range Rules Most Folks Will Listen Rather Than Take A Chance. No Offense Meant. Swany

Here's Kdub working out another 6.5X55 Swede at the hunting lease.

This is the shooting range I prefer, but I can't always get there.The only intruders we worry about there is an occasional deer or cow getting in the way.

The more I shoot that caliber, the more impressed I am with it.
Could it be that Ken is right??

He knows more about that caliber than anyone I know. We also got lucky and burned a coyote with that gun on this trip.

Yeah, same kind of folks you don't want to follow in public restrooms, and litter on the highways. Will never understand these kinds of folk, ... just accept the fact that they do exist and, unfortunately, they're allowed to vote and breath up perfectly good air :rolleyes:. The American Shooting Center range [ http://www.amshootcenters.com/ ] in Houston keeps a tight rein on safety and their rates are very reasonable.

Yup! That's where I do most of my shooting. I got yelled at the first time I was there, and sometimes the range masters are still a little pushy, but I don't mind a bit; it's good that they're sticklers for order and safety, especially on those Sundays when people are coming and going by the hundreds.

Our club has 1600 members and we get visitors, some uninvited. The ranges are usually visited by the rangemaster or different range assistants.Safety is primary....violate the rules and you lose your card. On the back of the membership cards are the two municipal police department phone numbers and the ambulance service. They come immediately if called and there is a problem. There are always some, members and visitors who violate the safety rules and just ordinary thoughtfulness or range etiquette. All guns must be open and empty and untouched if others are down-range...no exceptions. Those that violate that rule get removed immediately. The biggest problem we have are folks that use more than one round in the gun on rifle or shotgun ranges. You can use a shotgun with one slug round at the rifle. The next biggest problem is folks that use shotgun shells on the rifle range boards. There is a range where you can pattern shotguns. At no time are automatic or machine guns allowed on any range. Pistol ranges permit magazines and wheelguns with more than one round, but you can only use straight wall case-pistols under 45 caliber,45acp or 45 LCs excepted. NO shoulder case rounds except on the rifle range and one round at a time.Occasionally we get visitors who try to shoot at the electrical lines or think it's cute to shoot the resistors on poles. We take license numbers or examine membership cards that are to be worn where they can be seen. We are starting signin sheets to eliminate problems. The only other outside range I have used was a sandpit range on Long Island and that always had a range officer to collect the fees.