Looking for a military rifle chambered in .308 and semi-auto. I have been looking for a long time and my chocies have been narrowed to Springfield M1A1 M14, FAL STG58, Armalite Ar-10. Pirce is a big factor, I can get the FAL for a lot cheaper but I was wondering if anyone can tell me if spending the extra money on one of the other two would be worth it.

I would go with the M1-M14....or any one of the Springfield M1-M14/Variants. I've used the FAL-Platform, and the AR-10 before, and once I got my hands on the new Springfield, my decision was made. My next .308/Semi-Auto is going to be the Springfield SOCOM-16. Its got a shortened barrel, and LOP, and it carries and shoots very-well.

I've had my STG58 for years now. Bought it because it was my version of "poor mans" M14.Now days prices being what they are,(Kit,Reciever,ect.) I would buy the M14A1. I too want a SOCOM 14. Santa are you listening?

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-rifles.shtml

Looking for a military rifle chambered in .308 and semi-auto. I have been looking for a long time and my choices have been narrowed to Springfield M1A1 M14, FAL STG58, Armalite Ar-10. Pirce is a big factor, I can get the FAL for a lot cheaper but I was wondering if anyone can tell me if spending the extra money on one of the other two would be worth it.

I agree with these folks that the M1A is the way to go and bought one a few years ago. When cost was an issue, I picked up an L1A1 and it is a great gun. I have a CETME and that is a fun gun to shoot. Overall, the M1A is the best choice. All the best...
Gil

Have carried both the M14 and FAL here in Iraq and have owned a SAR-48 Bush rifle (shorty FAL-fixed stock). Granted the M1A can be made to tighter tolerances for better accuracy (carried a National Match here last year). Spare parts are more availble for the FAL and the FAL can be easier to adapt to other configurations plus it has an adjustable gas system (currently carring a FALpara and can keep 20 rds in 8in at 300m). Armalite's verison hasn't been proven enough for me. As far as choice it depends on the role you envision to put the rifle through. My personal choice would be another FAL with a DSA rail system.

CD

A friend has an Armalite AR-10 that he is very happy with. I don't know where that fits in the price factor with the others mentioned, but either the AR-10 or the M1A1 (M-14) would be my choices.

I think you're on the right track as far as the weapons systems you're considering. In fact, they are all good choices, and you probably wouldn't go wrong with any of them. You should probably also take a look at the Knight's Stoner SR-25, and the PTR-91 (an HK-91 clone).

Having said that, I thought I'd share some of my experiences with the battle rifles I have. After the Klinton gun ban went into effect back in the mid 90's, I really wanted a FAL, but couldn't afford a good one and didn't want to settle for a POS Century Arms model. I ended up having one built on an Imbel receiver and an Austrian STG58 parts kit. It was a nice rifle, and I was very impressed with it. I liked it so much, in fact, I had two others built just like it.

There are some very good reasons why over 90 countries adopted one version or another of the FAL's. They are resonably accurate for the intended purposes, and are extremely reliable with any ammo, under any conditions. With the adjustable gas system, they are 100 % reliable with any ammo, hot or cold, clean or dirty. From my experience, I would expect a FAL to be as reliable as an AK under varying conditions. You couldn't make that claim with any of the other choices you're considering.

The FAL is also a very robust design. To illustrate my point, and why I'm so confident about them, I would like to pass on what happened to me and my first one. In trying to find some cheap ammo one time, I bought some reloads with Israeli military brass. They looked fine, but the brass must have been bad. I was shooting from a sitting position with my legs crossed. On the last shot from a 20 round mag, I had a case split from the neck all the way back to the base. I wasn't wearing shooting glasses. All that happened was that the spring, follower, and floor plate blew out the bottom of the mag well between my legs, and the mag body was puffed up below the mag well, like it was pregnant. Nothing happened to the rifle at all! I don't think I would want to try that with any of the other rifles. Needless to say, I don't buy reloads any more.

I also have a Springfield Armory M1A "loaded package" with the Springfield 4-14x56mm First Generation scope. It's a very nice rifle, and more accurate than my FAL's with the ammo it likes, but it's finicky about what it likes. It has the "match chamber", so you can't use military surplus 7.62mm Nato ammo, so forget about using cheap ammo in one of these. I think the Springfield models like the SOCOM with the 7.62 Nato chamber would be a good choice, and could use the milsurp ammo, but I wouldn't expect them to be any more accurate than a good FAL.

For a while, I considered an AR variant like the AR-10 series of rifles or the SR-25, but I decided against them because of the direct gas system they use. I'm glad I did. I've run as much as 500 rounds of milsurp ammo through my FAL's in an afternoon without even a hiccup. At times, they got so hot you couldn't even touch the hand guard without getting burned. When I've taken them down for cleaning, the inside of the rifle looked like I'd been burning coal in an old furnace. That much 7.62 ammo produces a lot of carbon. I can't imagine an AR-10 still functioning flawlessly under those conditions.

I haven't hand loaded for the FAL's yet, but I always try to save my brass, so I can if I ever have to. At the range, I've picked up brass that had been fired through either a CETME or a HK-91, I'm not sure which. It was invariably so badly mangled by the roller lock action, that I would be affraid to try to reloade it.

From these experiences, I finally decided to get a DSArms SA58 Paratrooper with the side folding stock, which is what I always wanted in the first place. I have a Leupold VX-III 1.75-6x32mm scope on it. It's quite accurate, fast on target, nicely finished, and totally reliable. Like Combat Diver said, I think it's the best choice out there for a defensive weapon. If for some reason, I could only keep one of my rifles, this would be the one.

DSArms rifles aren't cheap, but I think they still offer some FAL's built with the Austrian STG58 parts sets that catalog for $995. A friend of mine has one of these, and it's a good shooter. If you custom order one of their other models built entirely from U.S. made parts, expect to pay probably twice that and wait about three months for delivery. They are worth it. IMHO. Check out their web site at http://www.dsarms.com .

Thanks, that has help narrow the search down

I have an FAL from DSA and I really like how it is made and how it shoots. I haven't taken the opportunity to compare it with any other 308, but I am satisfied with what I have. I know that a lot them are used throughout the world, so that should mean something. They do cost a little, but in this day and age,what doesn't.

Fn-Fal all the way, I think there is a site called fnfal.com there is a thread called "old Dirty" its about a fn-fal that has over 10,000rounds in it without cleaning, and if I remember right only two mis fires due to cartridges, and it still is as accurate as when it started, look it up its intresting reading......Marko

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=68486&highlight=old+dirty

Hello,
There are many examples of 308/7.62 NATO firearms available, but having shot matches for quite a few years now, I have yet to see an FAL, HK, etc. used with any success. Mind you, these matches are what is called XC or across the course matches, National Match, etc. and only issued sights are permited, no optics. That could be one reason for all the others have somewhat crude sights on them. They are battle sights, point and shoot type, and apparently not suitable for precision shooting. The M1A or M14 w/ NM sights can deliver outstanding accuracy to and beyond the 600 yard mark and in fact are shot at the 1000 yard targets. The M1A can be set up with optics, but it is a poor arrangement for it is necessary to have the added cheek piece to get your eye lined up with the scope/optics. It is done, but not a very comfortable arrangement. Am sure other 308 military type rifles have their advantages, but overall, it is hard to beat that M1A for reliability, ease of shooting and accuracy. I would go for the M1A or a good built M1 Garand in 308 for overall performance. Just my opinion.
dsiteman
Favor Center!!

TTT............................Marko

Having shot the FAL, SAR48, and M1A pretty extensively, for out and out accuracy I would suggest the M1A National Match. For day in and day out yearly reliability it is the FAL or SAR48 hands down.

Are you thinking of of a shooting match type rifle that doubles as your SHTF rifle or a SHTF rifle that is accurate and can be made more so by changing rear sights? I'd go with the FAL or SAR48, a better rear sight, lots of mags and let it be.

Bad, evil, naughty, not at all PC, black gun... :D

Get the M1A, you will not regret it.
The craftsmanship is superior, the accuract outstanding. i have been shooting mine going on 10 years, at both just plinking or punching holes and the National matches.

If price is the major factor, have you looked at the Saiga? Based on the AK action.

http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/saiga.shtml

I got mine for less (much less) than $300. You won't win a Nat'l match, but it's fine for hunting and fun for blasting.

I have owned M1, M1A, HK 91 and STG58 (assembled on an American made receiver). I still have the STG 58. I WISH it was the M1A. The american design fits me better. The M1A I had came with a national match barrel. I came on hard times and had to let it go.

Take care and God bless.

Tom

Have owned several .308 semi-autos, and I would say hands down go for a M-1A. I'd prefer a full up version, not one of the shorties. An original H&K 91 would also be a good choice, but a better alternate would be a .308 caliber M-1 Garand too.
Note: I own two M-1As, a .308 Delux and a .243 Match.

LLS

Here's my 2 cents worth. I recently purchased a cemte rifle. It shoots very well for what I intended it for; plinking, shooting bowling pins, and bottles in "the pit" at my local range. The gun fires any ammo I feed it (wolf, bear, surplus corrosive,whatever).It only cost my around 350 bucks. Am I going to win any national matches with it? No. Whould I be willing to take it into combat? Without a doubt. I think the point is before buying a rifle think about what you"ll be useing it for. if you need a gun to shoot everything ( national match,combat,super reliabilty with any ammo) there is no such gun, and here's the really good news, you might just have to buy a couple...

Looking for a military rifle chambered in .308 and semi-auto. I have been looking for a long time and my chocies have been narrowed to Springfield M1A1 M14, FAL STG58, Armalite Ar-10. Pirce is a big factor, I can get the FAL for a lot cheaper but I was wondering if anyone can tell me if spending the extra money on one of the other two would be worth it.
I want one also and decided on a GArand through the CMP. SInce .308 units are collector items, ill get a cheaper one and rebarrel it. HOw far wrong an i go for five hundred bucks

If price is the major factor, have you looked at the Saiga? Based on the AK action.

http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/saiga.shtml

I got mine for less (much less) than $300. You won't win a Nat'l match, but it's fine for hunting and fun for blasting.

I agree I love my Russian made Saiga Sporter in 308win its synthetic stock and its manufactured by the same people in Izhmash who manufacture the world famous battle proven, reliable, dependable and quality built AK47. Its based and designed on the AK47 receiver. So you also have the ease complete disassembly for cleaning too. It also has a chromed lined chamber and bore. The people at Izhmash in Russia focused on manufacturing the Saiga to be very accurate and as it turned out its more accurate than its AK brothers are. I have read reports on the net of some making very accurate shots at 200yds and hitting gongs at 400yds+ with their 16" barreled Iron sites Saiga's. My 16" barreled 308win Saiga is shooting 1 1/2" groups at 100yds benchested using surplus South African 308ball FMJ ammo and mine has operated flawless so far. I'm sure it will shoot even tighter groups with my 308 reloads too. The 4 of us hammer it everytime we go shooting and its holding up to its AK47 reputation. At the time it cost me $307 OTD and i think its very affordable for this awesome accurate russian rifle.

I was never fond of the .223 caliber nor the expensive black rifles too but after shooting the Saiga in 308win and seeing how awesome this rifle is I went looking for a Saiga Sporter in .223Rem too. It costs around $259 and its as much of a hoot to shoot as the 308 saiga is too.

I have also heard the saiga in 7,62x39 and 5,45x39 isn't as accurate as the 308win/nato and .223rem saigas are while there close the american calibers are a tad more accurate. The Russians think its the straighter cases on the american calibers is why they are more accurate over the russian calibers.

I think the Russians have hit a nitch in our gun market with this affordable quality rifle. I also think its the hottest thing to hit our shores since the chinese norinco sks did in the late 70's. I think that this is a gun that no guy who likes guns should be without. Trust me these are awesome sporting rifles. They are offering the same quality AK design in shotguns too.

You can check them out at; www.raacfirearms.com
You can see prices at; www.saigacentral.com

I have nothing to do with the sales or manufacture of the Saiga's i'm just a guy who likes guns like you. I was looking at a SA M1A but at $1,200 for a basic no frills model and then i seen the russian manufactured Saiga and i'm glad i did. I'm still on the fence about getting an M1a but with springfield having quality problems and i'm not sure for spending $1,200 that i'm going to get an accurate one plus after spending $1,200 on one i can't afford sending it out to have the barrel changed to make it accurate. I have the cash but i'm frugal too being retired i have to get the most bang for my buck too and the saiga is it just try one.....

BTW; We have to consider that this is a brand new russian AK47 in a sporter wrapper its not a gun that was brought into the country and butchered by a 101 meat cutter and made for us. The fit and finish sure has the look of a quality gun and just wait until you shoot it. The only thing i do to the new saiga's is to lube them up with TS-70 Moly i lube up the receiver, bolt carrier/bolt, gas piston/tube(just a little) and on the trigger. It smooths out the action, trigger and lessens the trigger pull too with just a lube.