Hi all,

To start off I'm a newbie to relaoding. As of right now I have loaded about 200 rounds of 9mm. I have been using bullseye powder, winchester primers, and jacketed 115 gr bullets. I have a Lee Progressive pro 1000 press.

Now my quesitons are this:

1) Is bullseye the best choice or is there something better?

2) I have been using two loads 4.6 and 5.0, the 4.6 seems to shoot better why might this be? And I think this might change with other powders, Am I right?

3) Will how a bullet shoots, accuracy wise, be dependent upon the firearm fired from?


Thanks for the help guys.

Tom

1) Is bullseye the best choice or is there something better?

2) I have been using two loads 4.6 and 5.0, the 4.6 seems to shoot better why might this be? And I think this might change with other powders, Am I right?

3) Will how a bullet shoots, accuracy wise, be dependent upon the firearm fired from?

1) Your definition of "best" could be different from mine. Velocity, accuracy, cost, something else? There are a few powders that will produce better velocity than Bullseye. Accuracy is really only something you can test in your particular firearm through experimentation.

2) There are so many factors as to why this is, you might have trouble fitting them in a book. One is known as barrel whip: the firing of the cartridge causes the barrel to vibrate, and for any combination of powder, bullet and individual gun, there will be certain amounts of powder that will harmonize with the vibration to cause the least amount of variation in bullet placement. Experiment with varying charges to find the sweet spot, and you will have found the combination that yields the most accuracy in your gun. With any different bullet or powder (or gun), you will have to do the same thing. This is one reason why you can easily load ammunition that is more accurate in your gun than factory ammunition.

3) Yes.

More questions,

1) When reading the loading manuals, I see a minium load and a maxium load, I unserstand the reason for not going over the max load, but what is the risks of going below the minium load? Would it just be a stuck bullet or is there something else?

2) When looking at the loading manuals I see a Min length and m.o.a.l., I assume that is Maxium Over All Length, but what are the dangers of going below the min length?

I did have one reload today get stuck, I failed to charge the case. I was paying attention and as soon as I didn't hear the "bang" I know what had happened. Mostly from reading the forums a lot before begining to reload. So I had no accidents.

I do have a habit of checking every 10th shell on the scale, and not just trusting the Lee powder measure system. Not that I don't trust Lee. I just don't want to trust my hands to anything that might be 100%, 100% of the time.

3) Refering to the paragraph above, do you all think that I would be better off to charge each shell by hand, or would you all trust the Lee powder measure system?

thanks again, and sorry to be such a pain in the rear, I'm just trying to anwser some questions that I have not found by searching the forums.

Tom

The minimum load, in semi-autos, is usually the lest poweder that will produce funtioning. IF you were shooting them in a revolver (and they did make some 9mm revolvers) can go a bit lower with some powders. In big cases (whihc the 9mm is NOT) there are some other reasons for not going below minimum with some powders.

Seating deeper than mimimum length reduce powder volume...which has the effect of increasing the pressure generated by a given powder charge. Going over the recommended OAL does the opposit: it increases the case volume and (usually) decreases pressure. A long OAL may not fit into a semi-auto's magazine or protrude from a revolver's cylinder and stop rotation. Beter to stick to the recommended OAL but don't sweat the small stuff....a few 100's of an ince differnce isn't enough to swweat, so don't break your neck trying to get 100%.

I''ve used the Lee auto-disk, regualr mesaues, and the plastic dippers...with any of them, is best to take a hard look at the powder charge in the case to be sure it's at the the same level as all it's brothers. Can't eyeball a small difference, but will spot the possible double charges or the no-charges. Keep checking occasionalcharges on a scale...but also check any that just look "off" compared to the others.

Rather than a "minimum" load, I think you are seeing a "starting" load. This isn't a terribly critical number, and it is often chosen somewhat arbitrarily (some percentage or some number of grains below the max load). Some load data doesn't even include it. You have to have a considerably low charge to run into danger. One risk is, as you've said, a bullet lodged in the bore -- and I assume you know that the danger goes beyond having a bullet stuck there, if you fire another round without clearing the obstruction, you're very likely to burst the barrel. Another risk, which I am not very familiar with, is known as detonation, and can happen when the charge is much too small.

Minimum length is important to observe because it is an indication of how much space exists inside the cartridge. As the powder burns and is converted to gas, pressure builds up. However, if the space initially available for that pressure is too small, the pressure will be dangerously high. If you seat your bullet too deeply, you restrict the gas to too small a space and it will cause an over pressure situation. This is especially critical if you are using max charges because you are already near the pressure limit.

There are a few powder measuring systems offered by Lee, and they all measure by volume. Depending on your powder, they tend to be fairly precise, but not as precise as measuring by weight with a scale. If your goal is accuracy, or you are loading right at your max charge, you may consider using the scale rather than the powder measure. I've also had some problems with some rifle cartridges (with narrow necks) and extruded powders in which the powder binds up in the neck and ends up not all getting into the case. However, as you are loading pistol cartridges on a progressive press, I assume you are using the AutoDisk, which has never given me any problems, but it can easily throw a charge which is off a couple tenths of a grain.

You might also want to try some WW231 and Unique as both of these powders work VERY well in my 9mm loads. Bulleseye is good though too.

2) I have been using two loads 4.6 and 5.0, the 4.6 seems to shoot better why might this be? TomHandguns will react differently to different charges of powder and weights of bullets. That is why reloaders "tune" their loads to achieve desired effects. Higher charges of powder do not necessarily provide the best accuracy in handgun ammunition. If your handgun shoots the 4.6 gr. load with more accuracy, then that is the load you will want to use for plinking or the range. In fact, factory loaded handgun ammunition produced for target accuracy is often loaded to "mid-range" velocities which is below maximum charges. If you wish better performance in penetration or knockdown power, use higher charges of powder or heavier bullets but the trade-off is sometimes a loss in accuracy. Remember, reloaders tune their ammunition to achieve desired effects.

ribbonstone Hit exactly on why I was asking about minimum charges. First off you all are right I was looking at starting charges and calling them minimum charges. Second the revolver is why I was asking. My wife is just getting ready to begin shooting, and a good freind said he would load up some .38 special at 2.3 of bullseye, which is about 1/2 of the manuals starting load. His reason for this was less recoil. He said it wouldn't be any more recoil than a .22lr. So I was wondering at what point you can load light and still not get into problems....


I have exprienced the the oal problem. My Nosler manual states 1.169" I had a few that were 1.174" that would go into my Taurus mags. So I was thinking maybe I could just get a hand press and reseat them the other .005".

One more question,


Why is it that when I use Bullseye powder with jacketed bullets it is totally smokeless just like factory ammo, but with cast lead bullets I get a puff of smoke out of the muzzle after the shot?


Is this something to do with the lead melting down?


Thanks agian you guys have been a life saver,

Tom

Most of the smoke is from the bullet lube. Lubes vary in smokiness. Lead bullets don't produce as much pressure as jacketed bullets do for the same powder charge, and tend to smoke a bit more due to incomplete combustion.

Bye
Jack

Most of the smoke is from the bullet lube. Lubes vary in smokiness. Lead bullets don't produce as much pressure as jacketed bullets do for the same powder charge, and tend to smoke a bit more due to incomplete combustion.

Bye
Jack

Jack's right...it's the lube. Evenw ith the bases clean, will tend to smoke a little bit as it vaporizes/burns off the stuff smeared on the barrel by the bullet's passage.

Recnetly made some bullet lube uysing Citronela Candles as past of the mix...not only smokes. but drives the mosquitos away.

Thanks Jack & ribbonstone,

I thought maybe it was something I was doing wrong.


I hope this is the last question for you all for a while,

But I bought a bulk of 0nce fired brass, that is mixed head stamps. My question is how important is it to sort this brass, by head stamp, before reloading?


Thanks,
Tom

For recreational shooting, it would make little difference if you were to put the mixed headstamped reloads together or separate them by headstamp. If you were going to use the brass for say, competitive purposes or self-defense, it would be wise to separate the headstamps to ensure maximum consistency from round to round.

Thanks Marshal Kane,

The wife and I sorted about 1500+ today while watching football. But with 4000+ to go that is good news.

I will be loading some self-defense rounds, but I have 300+/- cases that I thought I would use for that purpose.

Tom

I reload the 115 gr. Winchester FMJ, Winchester Small Pistol primer, any brand of once-fired cases, and 4.6 gr. of Bullseye powder for my wife's 9mm SIG P228. She shoots this load a hundred bullets at a time which is enough to keep me busy. I hope your wife enjoys shooting the 9mm too!

Well right now it's just me shooting the 9, but I'm hoping to get her to the range for some training in the next few weeks, and then we can go from there.

I have tried the exact same loads that you are loading and I was impressed with how well they shot. I also tried 5.0 of Bullseye, and although they shot good, I could hold better groups with the 4.6 loads.

Sounds like you've worked out a good inexpensive practice load; something reloaders tend to rely on for years and years. It's working for you, so stick with it.

Can usually bulk buy the 115gr. FMJ's pertty cehaply, 9mm cases tend to get lost before they wear out, and Bullseye in these small doses is pretty econolical. An accurate load that costs little is on of the main goals of reloading.

Would try to noice the powder level in your mixed brass...once in ahwile have an off brand case drasticlly differnt from the others. When expanding th necks, pay attention to the feel...one that expands too easily is either much thinner than the others or has a split neck...toss them to the side for later exam, but don't mix them in with your range ammo.

9MM is wicked cheap to shoot, I would personally go with new brass for self defense... You don't want to chance anything going wrong if you are in a life or death situation...

Good Luck and Welcome to Shooters Forum!

125 grain speer jacketed soft nose bullet i use either unique or herco ! better bullet ! JAGG

I've reloaded for a Browning HiPower & a S&W. Tried bullseye with 125gr lead bullets, and in both guns the difference in powder charges between min to operate the actions and max pressure was very small. Hard to get it just right. Had a lot of failures to extract & feed.

Tried several slower powders, and those around Unique's rate worked the actions much more reliably.

Also, the slower powders tend to have a softer recoil. It's more of a push than a sharp jerk. More comfortable to shoot for longer sessions!

gmd3006

thanks for the info. I just shot about 150 rounds tonight, and found that I did have issuses with the action operating propperly, and there was a real jerking on recoil that I never noticed with factory loads. The action worked better with 4.6gr of bullseye, but the recoil was still very jerky.

Maybe I will pick-up some unique before my next loading session this weekend. What kind of loads where you at with the Unique?

I reload the 115 gr. Winchester FMJ, Winchester Small Pistol primer, any brand of once-fired cases, and 4.6 gr. of Bullseye powder for my wife's 9mm SIG P228. She shoots this load a hundred bullets at a time which is enough to keep me busy. I hope your wife enjoys shooting the 9mm too!


Have been casting 105 gr SWC out of a Lee mold. Would the same 4.6 Bullseye seem like too much for this bullet? Cannot find any load info anywhere for this. Thanks, Tom

Have been casting 105 gr SWC out of a Lee mold. Would the same 4.6 Bullseye seem like too much for this bullet? Cannot find any load info anywhere for this. Thanks, TomShould be in the ballpark. From Lyman
Pistol & Revolver Handbook, first ed. page 80:
92 gr. cast: min. 4.0 gr. Bullseye 1060 fps. 19,800 CUP
max. 5.2 gr. Bullseye 1315 fps. 32,000 CUP

115 gr. cast: min. 3.8 gr. Bullseye 1035 fps. 22,800 CUP
max. 4.9 gr. Bullseye 1200 fps. 31,000 CUP

You should be able to select a load somewhere in the middle to stay on the safe side. Hope this helps.

Well I have decide to go shooting tommorow after teaching the kids air gun class at the local club. So I loaded up a few different loads tonight.


I loaded 50 each of the following loads:

Winchester brass for all
Winchester 115gr. JHP for all


winchester small pistol primer and 3.8gr. of bullseye
winchester small pistol primer and 4.0gr. of bullseye
CCI small pistol primer and 4.3gr. of bullseye
CCI small pistol primer and 4.6gr. of bullseye


I have loaded and did not like the same brass and bullets with 4.8gr and 5.0gr of bullseye. So this is something a little lighter, I will let you all know how it works out tommorow evening.

Tom

Well i got to go shooting today, and test out some of theloads I listed above.

I found the 3.8gr. of bullseye very pleasant to shoot, and very accurate. The 4.3gr of bullseye was very accurate also, with just slightly more recoil.

As for the others I was less than impressed. There just was no tight grouping of any kind. Really it almost looked like a spray and pray pattern.

4.5 gr of Unique is just right for 9MM with 125 gr RN lead bullet.