I just finished installing a Williams FP rear peep and a red firesight on my GG. When I tried it for the first time at the range, I discovered that it is very easy to center the glowing dot in the rear peep, but it also obliterates the target at 100 yards. I had a 3 1/2" target bull taped to to the center of an 8x11 piece of white printer paper, and the front sight spanned almost of the 8" width of the paper. Needless to say, I could't even see the bullseye.

Do all of you who use the firesight use a zero hold or a 6 O'clock hold? I found myself "guessing" where the bullseye might be... and my groups showed it.

That's my experience too. The red firesight covers up the target especially in bright sunlight. I took it off and went back to a gold bead. Several members here say the green bead is OK, but I don't know who handles them in Canada, and Williams won't sell direct.

I find I do better if I centre a round bead on the target, and use a 6 o'clock hold with a square post.

Bye
Jack

The guys to talk to about that are the marines. They eat sleep and bathe with their rifles and would probably have the best advice.

Personally with irons, I use a 6 oclock hold, at close ranges it works just fine for me.

Center hold when shooting game animals. 6 o'clock hold when just wanting to punch holes in a round bullseye target.

I have decided just as kdub said, center hold on game. In that case you are using the front firesight bead like a red-dot optical sight. Just slap it on the target and let fly.

This requires that you learn at what range the strategy begins to move you out of the kill zone. Each person has to work that out at the range as our eyes are all different.

My complaint with the firesights, and others of the type, is that under different lighting conditions the apparent size of the front sight appears larger or smaller.

This places a premium on lots of practice and becoming very familiar with how your gun shoots in a wide variety of range and light intensity combinations.

I gave up and went back to gold beads. Having said that, I expect that at ranges under 125 yds. a center hold will work with 30-30 and 35 Rem. class ammo and deer (or larger) size targets.

Use the "on" hold...better for game.

On targeets, hold at 6 0'clock and just live with the fact your groups are going to be at 6 0-clock. By holding on a round bull at 6, willbe able to aim at the very bottom of the circle, which is more exacting and makes for better groups.

on teh bright side, can go out and rotate the target 90degrees and be able to shoot 4 groups on one target without them overlapping.

Hello,
I reallize that many sure like the so called fire sight system, but not for me. I have shot both civilian and military matches w/ receiver sights/peep/etc. for so many years that a scope is like an extra add on for me.
The best front sight for me is the traditional post or bead/blade and do not want any color involved. The blacker it is the better whether it is game or targets. Do have a old sourdough front sight blade w/ a brass insert, dull though, and it is quite easy to see but if it were bright where the light would "dance" all over it, then your accuracy will surely suffer. Reflected light can really play some tricks on you and mess up your shooting or at least for me it does.
Learn where the impact is with your rifle with the six o'clock hold and also learn the impact when it is "center of mass" on the target. By knowing both and practicing (operative word here is practicing) you can become very accurate with your "iron" sights and not have to have a glowing front sight picture either. Just a few suggestions from a service rifle shooter.
dsiteman
Favor Center!!

I don't care for the firesight or a regular bead for that matter. Just too much material to block the target/animal. I much prefer a square post and better yet a tapered thin post. My favorite setup is on my 375 BigBore. Williams receiver sight with the bead filed off the original front sight. Makes a nice thin tapered post. Can manage some suprising groups with it. Got is sighted in for the bullet to hit at the top of the post.

I have always preferred the CENTER-HOLD.
...However the 6 O'clock-hold does have it's merits for "Paper-Qualification" on a Known-Distance-Range with the benefits of calling each shot, and data-book recording. I have found that for "Field-Firing" with various stances and under variable conditions...I tend to prefer a BZO with a CENTER-HOLD...Semper-Fi.

I don't care for the firesight or a regular bead for that matter. Just too much material to block the target/animal. I much prefer a square post and better yet a tapered thin post. My favorite setup is on my 375 BigBore. Williams receiver sight with the bead filed off the original front sight. Makes a nice thin tapered post. Can manage some suprising groups with it. Got is sighted in for the bullet to hit at the top of the post.


sounds lilke the military mauser front post...?

The early Firesights used a fibre that was approixmately 4moa. I found that I could shoot very tiny groups at 100yds if I used an 8" black circle. Your eye will center that dot nicely if there is a reference. Unfortunately, most targets you pick up at WhatEverMart are designed for scopes.

By the way, sight it or work up your loads at 50yds. It is too hard to subtract out human error at 100yds.

Zero for a 6 oclock hold at 25yds on a small circle, make sure your impact is at point of aim or 6 oclock. Now you are roughly 1.5 inches high at 25 yds. Now check it at 50, 100 ect. Zeroing at 6 oclock but actually putting the point of aim at 6 for the ease of target aquisition. After that point of aim on your game animal. If you just decide to zero at 100 use the 6 oclock hold, on a 3.5 inch target you would be if centered 1.75 high at 100 thats good.

Agree with going back to bead - but not the gold (glint in sunlight pulls my shots to that side). I like a white bead (held over) or the AO front post (6 o'clock). Practice will make more of a difference than which sight you choose.

Yes, I've got to figure out something. Part of the problem is I'm currently trying to work up an accurate load at the same time as sighting in the rifle. I guess I'll get the POI close to the bull and then concentrate on groups of the various loads. I'll give the 6 o'clock hold a try at 50 yrds and 100 yrds, and I like the idea of a black bullseye instead of the universal red one. The firesight is red, and distinguishing between the glowing red sight and the red bullseye is tricky. If that dosen't seem to work, I'll mount a 4 power scope I have, work up the load I want [ proven accuracy ] then remove the scope and practice with the peep and firesight. At that pint, I may consider switching the front sight to a finer post sight or something else.
Thanks for the info. I was wondering how others contended with the blotted out bullseye and the firesight.

Sounds like a plan. If you follow through with it you will learn what works for you.

It's been said above, practice. Practice and experience are the only way to make a rifle "your own."

Zero for a 6 oclock hold at 25yds on a small circle, make sure your impact is at point of aim or 6 oclock. Now you are roughly 1.5 inches high at 25 yds. Now check it at 50, 100 ect. Zeroing at 6 oclock but actually putting the point of aim at 6 for the ease of target aquisition. After that point of aim on your game animal. If you just decide to zero at 100 use the 6 oclock hold, on a 3.5 inch target you would be if centered 1.75 high at 100 thats good.


AFter 6 o'clock, I have a hard time seeing the target...during hunting season.

I have to echo the point, I use a six o'clock on targets with my Marlin .45-70 and its factory gold bead with Williams aperture sight. At 50 yards, the bullets hit just at the top of the bead. At 100 yards, the bullets land under the centre of the bead. To me, this means that I put the sight on the middle of the chest at any distance from the muzzle to just over 100 yards and the bullet will land under the sight.
At 100 yards I don't worry about the target bull, mostly because I cannot see it. I hold for the centre of the paper, and find that I can shoot reasonable hunting sized groups doing that.

AFter 6 o'clock, I have a hard time seeing the target...during hunting season.

You won't get close enough to pin a target on them!! :D :D


Trick is to put your bullet where you are aiming and putting a bullet on the bottom of a circle target with a 6 oclock hold at any range makes target aquisition easier trying to hold on the center of a circle that is smaller than your bead is impossible if it covers it up, if you so desire make your circle say 6 dia at 100 hold at six, zero for center you'll be 3 inches high at 100. If you stick with point of aim what's the problem with putting your sights on the heart lung area of a deer the top of the bead is where the bullet will land?

I hunt with fiber optic front sights on my marlins and muzzle loaders and don't see the problem you are having.

AFter 6 o'clock, I have a hard time seeing the target...during hunting season.


Thats a good one leverite. Have to remember that one.