I'm guessing this is a common problem, but have any of you 45-70 shooters had problems with some published load data not burning cleanly?

In my experience, Accurate 5744, Hodgdon 4895, and Hodgdon Varget all left unburned powder kernels in the barrel. Didn't seem to matter if it was 300 gr, 405 gr, or 510 gr bullets, either. Hodgdon 4198, Hodgdon Benchmark, and IMR 3031 all see to be fine.

Granted, I'm sticking with rather traditional loads (ie lower pressure), so it might be that higher-pressure loads "clean up". But if I want higher-power 458-caliber shooting, I have my 458 Win Mag. I like my 45-70 Gov't loads to be close to the original 1873 loads. Just weird, I guess.

Would be interested in anyone elses experience with this. In the 15 or so calibers I load, this is the only one I've run into such a problem with.

458plinker

I'm guessing this is a common problem, but have any of you 45-70 shooters had problems with some published load data not burning cleanly?

In my experience, Accurate 5744, Hodgdon 4895, and Hodgdon Varget all left unburned powder kernels in the barrel. Didn't seem to matter if it was 300 gr, 405 gr, or 510 gr bullets, either. Hodgdon 4198, Hodgdon Benchmark, and IMR 3031 all see to be fine.

Granted, I'm sticking with rather traditional loads (ie lower pressure), so it might be that higher-pressure loads "clean up". But if I want higher-power 458-caliber shooting, I have my 458 Win Mag. I like my 45-70 Gov't loads to be close to the original 1873 loads. Just weird, I guess.

Would be interested in anyone elses experience with this. In the 15 or so calibers I load, this is the only one I've run into such a problem with.

458plinker

None of those powders are going to burn real clean at the pressure level of BP loads. Not just peak pressure, but the amount of powder burned has to do with it...peak pressure doesn't last all that long, and the volume increase as that big bullet starts moving reallly drops pressure fast, so even if your peak is 25K, it falls off rather rapidly and some of the powder is trying to burn at 16K or 9K....which smokless rifle powders don't do real well.


Faster powders help...at the penalty of hihger pressure or lower velocity at the same pressure....but some find it a good trade off.

So...yeah...if you upped the pressure a bit, would probably find a cleaner burn (assuming the rifles can stand the higher presssure) or could try a faster burning powder.

Personlly, If accuracy is good and pressure is low, i just don't let it bother me all that much.

458
A solution that worked for me. I reduced the diameter of the case mouth expander for a tighter grip on the bullet body. I use the Lyman M die so I chucked the expander into a power drill and used emory and crocus cloth to polish it down.
When I seat the bullet I can see where the base stops on the outside.
Jim

Pretty hard not to get powder zombies with those powders at those pressures. I used to get them with H4895 and IMR3031 when trying to shoot slow.

When I want to shoot "original" speeds, e.g. 405gr @1330fps, I use a fast powder. You mentioned H4198, and it's fast enough.

Greg has a nice site where he has worked up a textbook of loads for "plinkers" (AKA Cowboy Action Shooting) using pistol powders. http://www.gmdr.com/

I'm guessing this is a common problem, but have any of you 45-70 shooters had problems with some published load data not burning cleanly?

In my experience, Accurate 5744, Hodgdon 4895, and Hodgdon Varget all left unburned powder kernels in the barrel. Didn't seem to matter if it was 300 gr, 405 gr, or 510 gr bullets, either. Hodgdon 4198, Hodgdon Benchmark, and IMR 3031 all see to be fine.

Granted, I'm sticking with rather traditional loads (ie lower pressure), so it might be that higher-pressure loads "clean up". But if I want higher-power 458-caliber shooting, I have my 458 Win Mag. I like my 45-70 Gov't loads to be close to the original 1873 loads. Just weird, I guess.

Would be interested in anyone elses experience with this. In the 15 or so calibers I load, this is the only one I've run into such a problem with.

458plinker


I also use 5744 and love it! BUT, you really need to use magnum primers with this powder. I use Federal 215s and most the problem goes away. 28.5 gr. behind a hard cast 400 gr. or heavier bullet works great. Good shootin' :D Wright

Try using a Lee Factory crimp die as well. It helps.

45,
I regularly get unburned powder in my 45/70's when I use IMR3031 powder.
Reloader 7 powder is a little faster and will burn clean.
Frank

Paul Matthews states in his book," Forty Years With The .45-70", that Unique is his powder choice for duplicating black powder loads.The "Lyman Reloading Handbook #44" lists a maximum of 15 grains with the 405grain jacketed bullet under loads for trapdoors.
I have used 15 grains under Lyman's 300grain 457191 in an old '86 Winchester with good results. The load is accurate and burns very clean. The velocity runs around 1340fps.

Wordsmith, may I ask where you live? One of the best shooters I know was recommending that very same book not more than a couple of weeks ago. I have this book on my hit list and will buy it on sight if I ever see a copy....