First off I want to thank everybody on this forum! You have been very informative and helpful! I have really jumped into the casting for about a year now and the more I learn the more I realize there is to learn. Anyway my question pertains to my alloy mix. At first I was pretty haphazard and my bullets showed it. I got nice looking bullets and they shot fine but each time I did a batch they varied quite a bit in weight from the last batch. I finally settled on a mix and poured all my ingots the same and what an improvement!
The method I settled on is first melt, flux, clean and pour ingots from wheelweights. Then I put a bucket on my refrigerant scale and put in WW ingots until I reached 18# and then added 2# of 50/50 bar solder and dumped the mix in my plumbers pot and started making the final ingots.
I have been casting .22 cal thru .38 and getting good looking bullets and very consistent compared to when I started out. They seem to be hard also but I haven't bought a tester yet so don't really know. I have been sizing and lubing with a Lyman 450 and with the Lee sizers and they both seem to work well. I prefer Lee's but they don't make the .22 & .25 cal. I just got and cast some 300 grain .45 bullets with Lee's C452-300-RF and went to seat the gas check and size and lube on the Lyman 450. I thought I was going to break the sizer or tear it off the bench, but I got some done. I then got a Lee sizer and lubed the bullets first and then seated the GC and sized some. It went much easier but it took some force to do also. It that the nature or the larger bullets and/or is my alloy too hard?

Mike B.

Just a couple of thoughts. New dies are a bit rough, so it might go easier after a few hundred bullets. Bullets take a week or so to harden, with most of the hardening happening early. If you can size the same day as you cast it goes easier.

Are you air cooling the bullets or water dropping them? If you want them hardened by water dropping, you can air cool them, size without lubing, heat treat in an oven and water drop, then run them through the sizer again to lube them.

If you're sizing without lubing, roll them on a pad damp with 3-In-1 oil first. After hardening they're pretty stiff, so most casters prefer lubing in the next side larger die, preferably just .001" larger. You can shrink them by leaving them in the frig for several hours too.

Bye
Jack

Just a couple of thoughts. New dies are a bit rough, so it might go easier after a few hundred bullets. Bullets take a week or so to harden, with most of the hardening happening early. If you can size the same day as you cast it goes easier.

Are you air cooling the bullets or water dropping them? If you want them hardened by water dropping, you can air cool them, size without lubing, heat treat in an oven and water drop, then run them through the sizer again to lube them.

If you're sizing without lubing, roll them on a pad damp with 3-In-1 oil first. After hardening they're pretty stiff, so most casters prefer lubing in the next side larger die, preferably just .001" larger. You can shrink them by leaving them in the frig for several hours too.

Bye
Jack

I did water drop them and it was about a week after I cast them. I sprayed the new sizing die with case lube at the start and after 20 or 30 bullets it did get somewhat easier. I was just shocked how much harder it was to size and gas check the big .45's compared to .35's and smaller. I think maybe part of it is the gas check? It looks like a garbage can lid after using .25 and .30 calobers. Maybe there is a sizeable difference in the force neccessary to size a .45 compared to .30, I just didn't expect it and have no experience with them so was wondering if I was doing something wrong. Thanks for the input! Mike B.

Have you measured the "as cast" diameter? Though I've never experienced it, some people say they buy Lee moulds that cast oversize. Anytime you size a boolit more than a few thousandths, the force required increases dramatically. Use a hard alloy, over size mould, or try to resize too much and you can have some real problems. I've broken two Lyman 450 sizer handles while sizing 500 grain 45/70 boolits cast in linotype. The combination of hard alloy, a long boolit, and sizing down several thousandths took more force than the handle would take.

Have you measured the "as cast" diameter? Though I've never experienced it, some people say they buy Lee moulds that cast oversize. Anytime you size a boolit more than a few thousandths, the force required increases dramatically. Use a hard alloy, over size mould, or try to resize too much and you can have some real problems. I've broken two Lyman 450 sizer handles while sizing 500 grain 45/70 boolits cast in linotype. The combination of hard alloy, a long boolit, and sizing down several thousandths took more force than the handle would take.

As Cast, they are .455 and I'm sizing them down to .452 so that may add to the problem. Actually, I'm assuming there is a problem because it took so much more force to size but I did manage to get them done. I just never sized larger bullets before and didn't know what to expect. The amount of force required surprized me. Thanks Mike B.

Two things you should know, Mike. You are wasting valuable tin by using 2 pounds to 18 pounds of wheelweights. You only need 2% to improve castability, and there is already .5% in wheelweight metal. Tin's main function is to improve castability, not to harden the alloy. You can cut back to 5 ounces per 18 pounds of wheelweights. Since you are using 50/50 bar solder, you need about 10 ounces.

Secondly, if you size boolits after water quenching, you are removing the surface hardness. As Jack said, a better way is to cast without quenching, size them, heat treat them, then lube them. The water quenching works great if you load the boolits unsized.

Two things you should know, Mike. You are wasting valuable tin by using 2 pounds to 18 pounds of wheelweights. You only need 2% to improve castability, and there is already .5% in wheelweight metal. Tin's main function is to improve castability, not to harden the alloy. You can cut back to 5 ounces per 18 pounds of wheelweights. Since you are using 50/50 bar solder, you need about 10 ounces.

Secondly, if you size boolits after water quenching, you are removing the surface hardness. As Jack said, a better way is to cast without quenching, size them, heat treat them, then lube them. The water quenching works great if you load the boolits unsized.

I thought I had read to get close to #2 lyman alloy you use 1# of 50/50 bar solder to 9# of WW. That why I was using it and my pot easily holds the 18# & 2 # so I went that way. It certainly seemed to cast well but I'm just learning.
So if I did the math right you're saying I could use a 1# bar of 50/50 to almost 29# of WW and still cast good bulets?
I will soon be making up more ingots and I'll have to try it. It definitely would save some money. Thank You Mike B.

Tin adds little hardness, it's most important function is to improve castability. As I said, you only need about 2% to do that. Lyman #2 has 5% tin, but what makes it hard is the antimony. If your base metal is wheelweights, what you need for additional hardness is antimony, not tin.

I'd suggest you mix up a smaller batch of each recipe and decide for yourself which one meets your requirements. Lyman #2 is a great alloy, but expensive when you consider the cost of tin.

I have a big supply of linotype, which mixed 50/50 with pure lead yields an alloy very close to Lyman #2 in hardness, and casts just as well even though it contains less tin. The nice part about linotype is it's high antimony content.

So if I did the math right you're saying I could use a 1# bar of 50/50 to almost 29# of WW and still cast good bulets?
Mike B.Mike, you are spot on for the Lyman #2 formula, however, you can decrease the amount of tin and still make a good casting alloy. The key is to be consistent so when you find a good formula, stick with it for uniform results.

Lyman #2 contains 90% lead and 5% tin. Wheelweights contain 95% lead and .5% tin so if the percentage of tin is increased, the percentage of lead decreases for any desired amount. Lyman #2 contains 5% antimony whereas wheelweights contain 4%. almost a wash so I disregard this.
That leaves me with only the percentages of lead:tin to adjust.

So my ratio for a 2% alloy goes like this: 2% tin/93% lead : X lbs. tin/20 lbs. wheelweights = amount of tin needed to be added to produce about 20 lbs. of 2% casting alloy

Working the equation gives an answer of X = 0.4 lb. of tin to be added to 20 lbs. of wheelweights for a 2% tin alloy.

What about the .5% tin already in the wheelweights? You can either disregard this or decrease a small amount of tin from the 0.4 lb. requirement. I choose to disregard this because I like a little more tin.

So if MY math is correct, adding 1 lb. of 50/50 solder to about 19.5 lbs. of wheelweights will make a 2+ percent alloy.

If your bullets do not fill the mould, try increasing the heat and/or adding a little more tin. Happy casting! :)

Here is a very good reference for lead alloys:

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Moderators: Consider doing a "sticky" on this site.

Here is a very good reference for lead alloys:

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Thanks for the help guys! I will definitely be experimenting soon. Mike B.