Where can I find a web site that shows the original WWII loadings of the 8x57?

I am shooting the Turkish surplus ammo in my 98k and it shoots about 8" high. Unfortunately I can not lower my rear sight any further. :mad: :(

OW,

The Turkish military ammunition is probably close to the German standard loading. the problem you have is more of sight regulation. Typically military rifles with open sights have their lowest setting at what is referred to as "Battle Sight". Typically this is in the 250-300 yard or meter range. Since the sights are probably not marked in characters you would recognize this would not be obvious. If the battle sight is 300 meters, then the point of impact at 100 yds would be in the 8" high area.

This is similar to the concept of "Point blank range". Set sights to shoot a few inches high, say 3" at 100 yds for a .30-06 150 spitzer load, and you can hold on an animal out to around 275 yds without being more than 3" high or low. The military span is more like plus/minus 8", since people stand vertically. Shooting 8" high the PBR is close to 400 yds.

The solution is to either place a scoring target behind the center of the group you are getting on the sighting target, or put a higher front sight on the gun.

Alk8944,
There may be a lot of truth to what you have described above. The rear sights on the Mauser 98k are meters, 100 to 2000 if memory serves.

The original loading for the 8x57 98k was for 2470 fps according to one of my books. The Turkish rounds are advertised at 2700 fps. I believe both are 197 grain projectiles.

I don't believe this velocity difference is enough to account for the 8" high I am seeing at 100 yards.

The inverted "V" sights on Mausers are difficult for me to use. I am used to the 6 O'clock hold with bead sights.

If I use the "V" sights in "point of aim" hold, the rifle would shoot even higher.

I am expecting "Hunting" sights with a "Battle rifle", this is my problem. Can I adapt the Mausers sights to "Hunting" mode? A taller front sight may be the only solution.

Old wolf, your problem is the height of your front sight. As stated before Older military rifles are set for 300 meters on the lowest rear adjustment. A higher front sight will do the trick. Numrich (E-gun) has higher front sights for about $12.00. You can use electrical tape to heighten it, and trim to desired aim point. than measure it, and order the proper front sight. If you change to light ball ammo, it will drop the POI also. MoJo sights make a complete front and rear replacement for around $75.00. JP

I have a K98 that shoots 6" high at 100 yds on the 100m setting with the Romanian ammo, which I might add is fairly hot. As was stated in the previous posts, you could get a higher front sight, which will lower the POI (Point Of Impact), or load your own ammo so that the POI is at the POA (Point Of Aim) at whatever distance you want.

Another option would be to try the CAI Hotshot ammo in 8x57. This is a little lighter loading that may give you the results you want.

Lastly, you could check out the MOJO Sights websight. They have 'aftermarket' sights that you can put on without having to make any alterations to your rifle. I haven't bought any - yet, but I was planning on putting some on one of my mausers one of these days...

Please don't use Hot Shot ammo! Primers pierce on almost all rifles, Made by Prvi, but cheap stuff. As I have stated a light ball (lighter grain) ammo will help, not cure. I don't know if MoJo's will be available soon, they are for sale! Got $200,000.00 ?

They are $75 on the MOJO web sight.

http://www.mojosights.com/order.html

OldWolf,
the milsurp Turk ammo is some of the hottest out there I understand and I have a similar problem in my M1938 Turk Mauser shooting 5 inches high at 100 yards with the rear sight bottomed out.
Once I figured out how much higher, I placed a paster on the target and used that as my point of aim and shot for group. Took some time but I have a reasonable idea of how far I need to hold under at 100 to hit grapefruit sized targets now.

Your accuracy problem maybe the turk ammo is too light its 155gr so its shooting much higher were the orginal 8mm mauser ammo was 196gr. The orginal german 8mm ammo was really powerful much more than a 30-06 in performance but the gun powder the germans used isn't manufactured anymore. You should try the yugo 8mm ammo its 199gr and it should shoot more accurate in your 98k.

Here's a site that did ammo tests on some 8mm surplus ammo; www.turkmauser.com/ammo/mhbTurk.htm
www.turkmauser.com/ammo/handloading.htm
www.turkmauser.com/ammo/downloading.htm

BigBill,
The Turk loadings are hot!! 150 fr at 3000 fps is greater than a 30.06! I did notice I had some hard extractions wityh the Turk too. Thanks for the link though, It looks like the Yugo is closer to the WWII loading which was 2470fps as staed in my edition of "Small Arms of the World".

Rather than load up on the Turk ammo I'm going to try the Yugo next, as you siad, it may give me the results I am looking for (which is ot messing with the sights of my dad's WWII trophy rifle).

Why is the Turk ammo so hot? Is it for machine gun use or did the Turks built their Mausers stronger and with calibrated sights?

Oh...I just noticed the test rifle had a 29" barrel. Perhaps this explains the higher velocity. Also, 45kpsi is not overpressure is it?

Apparently, original 98k ammunition was loaded to 2500fps with a 197.5 gr projectile.


The Infanteriepatrone 7,92mm (Infantry Cartridge 8mm) was used by the K98K rifle and other weapons. During World War II over ten billion of these rounds in various configurations were produced. The typical velocity of this round is 2500 fps with a projectile weight of 197.5 grains. Between 80% and 90% of all the 7,92x57mm ammunition produced was of the sS type(sS for Schweres Spitzgeschoss meaning heavy pointed bullet). The OAL cartridge length was 80.6 mm containing a power charge of 41.7 grains. The regular sS bullet had the following penetration performance:


To read more, look at this site: http://www.mausershooters.org/k98k/8_8mm.html

But then this site says the 98K's use 154 grain bullets. Which is it?


The 8mm Mauser, came into existence in 1905 when the 7.92x57J
was upgraded with a 154 grain spitzer bullet with a diameter
of .323. This was the primary military round for Germany during
WWI and WWII.


http://www.surplusrifle.com/mauser98k/pdf/mauser98kammunition.pdf

Please don't use Hot Shot ammo! Primers pierce on almost all rifles, Made by Prvi, but cheap stuff. As I have stated a light ball (lighter grain) ammo will help, not cure. I don't know if MoJo's will be available soon, they are for sale! Got $200,000.00 ?

With all respect, I've shot the Hot Shot in my two K98's, two Yugo M24/47's, two VZ24's, and my Turk M38; I've never had a pierced primer. If you've had that happen I'd check the protrusion of the firing pin; as for this happening with almost all rifles that's the first time I've heard such a claim.

Of course the 8mm hunting ammo Remington sells is a lighter loading also. That might work to lower the POI.

Apparently, original 98k ammunition was loaded to 2500fps with a 197.5 gr projectile.



To read more, look at this site: http://www.mausershooters.org/k98k/8_8mm.html


I seem to recall that when the Germans moved to smokeless powder they used a 220 gr. round nosed bullet, then moved to a 196.5 gr. spitzer bullet, which was used in WWII. I think Hornady makes a 195 gr. .323 bullet which should work good. I can find no reference 150 gr. range bullet being used as a wehrmacht loading, but that doesn't mean that it might not be.

Craig, no claim, fact. I have no problem w/ all other ammo I have tried, including my hand loads. The primers appear to protrude out of the back of the case. Manufacturing glitch, maybe. I won't use Hot Shot again.
8mm Ammo I use:
1940's Portuguese manufacture heavy ball
1950's Yugo heavy ball
1950's Equator light ball
My hand loads

They pierced in a model M48a and a 1916 GEW98.

I am sorry to get off track Old Wolf, send me a private E-mail and I'll send my recipe for hand loads. JP

I was given some Israeli surplus that is head stamped 56. And in my k98 it will shoot one hole groups at 100yds. Wish I could find more of it.

If I remember correctly the standard 8mm rifle round was about 150 grains at 3000 fps. The machinegun round was meant for longer ranges and was loaded with about a 200 grain bullet, dont remenber the velocity on that one. The Germans came up with the 200 grain loading in WI because their guns were being outranged by the French solid metal 8mm Lebel bullet. In WWI, the machineguns were also used as a type of artillery using indirect fire. If you handload, you can probably find a load for your rifle that will hit close to the point of aim. Higher front sights are available and are fairly easy to install.