This is what happens if you resize your cases too many times. The casing that was stuck in the chamber came out easily with a .410 shotgun plastic bristle brush.

I noticed the tell-tale shiny ring around the case web during my last reload and planned to discard these cases after their next discharge.

My new plan is to have dedicated cases for each of my 30/30 and neck resize only after the first full case resize.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c392/bradcdavis00/Marlin/30-30SplitCase.jpg

No... that is what happens when you decrease the cartridge headspace excessively each time you reload your cases. Back your FL die off (about a half turn) and add a Lee Collet die to your loading tool chest. When 30-30 brass for leverguns is resized properly, the first signs of old age are fractures starting at the case mouth.

MC

MC - Isn't that what I said? Back off on the FL sizing die? I didn't mention I use the LEE Factory Crimp die.

Maybe I don't understand what you are telling me.

What is wrong with my idea to resize the neck only from now on?

MC - Isn't that what I said? Back off on the FL sizing die? I didn't mention I use the LEE Factory Crimp die.

Maybe I don't understand what you are telling me.

What is wrong with my idea to resize the neck only from now on?

Sooner or later, cases die. One of the ways they go is a seperation. Neck sizing can prolong the case's life span, but like old people, they really aren't the same as they were when they were young.

Even if you never ever sized the case, it still expands and contracts. The solid head doesn't expand and conract anywhere as much as the case body, so it will eventually work harden and eventually crack at the juntion...on a small scale, it's like bending a paper clip back and forth. Body sizing will just speed the process. Now add in a little action flexing...which basically increases headspace...and it can happen a lot sooner than later.

Would be better to catch them before they seperate...and to keep your well used brss seperate from the cases you use for full charge ammo.

OldWolf,

I was referring to the Lee Collet neck sizer die which only reduces neck diameter. You can set up an FL (full length) sizing die to neck size only (sort of) but it will probably reduce the case diameter at the body/shoulder junction even if the shoulder is not set back at all. I have Winchester 30-30 brass that has been reloaded for years (20 to 30 times) most of the time with 32 to 37 grains of spherical powder, usually pushing nothing lighter than Lyman 311041. I have never had a case separation and the brass always cracks longitudinally at the mouth when it is worn out as this is the only area that receives appreciable "work-hardening". I must admit though, I don't shoot the Winchester 94s much anymore in favor of the 336's. Granted they both lock up in the rear but I believe the 336 is less "springy" than the 94 because of the solid top receiver and IMO, stronger lock-up.

For best results, set your FL die to just barely set the shoulder back enough to restore smooth chambering after about 5 to 10 full power loads fired in neck-sized only brass. Owning an FL die adjusted for each 30-30 firearm you own, labeled with the gun's serial number, simplifies things.

MC

P.S. I meant to say, No... not really, to your first statement: "This is what happens if you resize your cases too many times". However, I got in a hurry and came off a little terse. Sorry if I confused you.

That can happen with new cases or a factory loaded round. I had a 44 mag case in a Marlin 1894 split in the middle and lodge the front part in the rifling. That was a light load. Had to push a lead slug from the muzzle to get it out.

While it's not a recommended procedure, my step-father-in-law generally shot all of his case until they separated or the necks split. I don't think he's quite so "frugal" these days, though. ;)

As others have said, neck sizing or partial FL resizing can help prolong case life, but none will last forever.

By the looks of it you should start deburring the inside of the flasholes.

I always clean the primer pockets. Never heard of deburring the inside of the flash holes.

Hmmmm, had a lot of case head separations on my .303 Brits, but never on a Win 94 chambered for 30-30. Let's see, I'm shooting mixed brass, some of it from the very first batch of R-P ammo I bought in 1966.

To load my ammo I use RCBS full length die set in an RCBS Rockchucker after following the sizing die adjustment instructions to the letter.
I do this because I always seem to have multiple guns in the same caliber. And I have no desire to segregate brass. Too much trouble. I ALWAYS full length size my 30-30 brass, because I require 100%positive feeding and ejection of my empties. I do not use the Lee FCD, it's not needed if you prepare your cases properly.

I've had an occasional insipiant case head separation from cases originally fired in other guns, then acquired by myself and loaded, but never from factory ammo or virgin brass I've loaded from the start.

My guess is that your gun may have some excessive headspace issues. Or the loads are on the high side of normal.

If not that then you're holding your mouth wrong when you pull the trigger. Just kidding.

Joe

I've been using the Lee Collet Dies for my 35 and 30-30, and have yet to lose a case. Some have been reloaded 25+ times, they get a good thorough inspection when they come out of the tumbler, and I have yet to find any problems. The neck is the only part that gets resized, and I use a Lee FCD as well. I'm also convinced the Collet dies are a HUGE aid to loading good ammo, both my Marlins will shoot half-inch groups at 50 yards with ammo they like. They could probably do better, but that's about as good as I can see or hold!

Papajohn

Question for those more experienced than me.

I've reloaded a bazzilion 30-30's and I've always had to trim the cases because they stretch alot with high-end loadings. So I'm assuming all that brass I'm trimming off the case mouth is coming from somewhere.

My question is: don't 30-30 cases continue to stretch even though you either neck-size or use collet dies? So don't you eventually have to pitch the case or face head separation?

sahibdla,
Question for those more experienced than me.

I've reloaded a bazzilion 30-30's and I've always had to trim the cases because they stretch alot with high-end loadings. So I'm assuming all that brass I'm trimming off the case mouth is coming from somewhere.
Yes it is. It's coming from the area just forward of the solid part of the case head. This is the weakest area and case streaching occurse most there.
That's why I don't use high end loads in my Winchester 94s. They lock up at the rear and will spring some with the hotter loads. Back the loads down to factory levels and you'll see the brass stretching problem go away. That is unless your gun has excessive headspace.

My question is: don't 30-30 cases continue to stretch even though you either neck-size or use collet dies? So don't you eventually have to pitch the case or face head separation? Short answer; NO.
Long Answer; When you neck size the cases it doesn't push the shoulders back to their original location. So the next time you fire the case it doesn't stretch.
This is also true of using standard factory level loads, but in a different way. These loads don't over work the brass or the guns action. This is what the gun / case is designed for and therefore the cases will live almost forever.

I've full sized all my 30-30 brass in a mid 1970s vintage set of RCBS dies since I got them new. I've got some cases from the first factory ammo I bought back in 1966 and am still loading these cases. Some of them have over 20 loads on them. NONE of them were loaded light. All my loads are factory level, but not above.

Joe

Short answer, yes, ALL cases stretch a little on firing. The Lee Collet Die minimizes it, and the factory Crimp Die also helps, but eventually, cases will need to be trimmed, a chore I Hate, Loathe, and Despise. I measure mine, and unless they're clearly over the MAX OAL, they get loaded again. So far, with 20+ loadings, none have needed trimming yet. But I only have one 30-30, and it was nearly-new when I got it, even though it was made in 1964. Some guns have been pushed, even abused, by hot loads. I don't do that. Most of my brass will outlive me. If you want to hot-rod a 30-30, you're going to pay a price for it. All my loads are under max, and I watch for signs of higher pressure anyway, especially when I change lots of powder. YMMV.

Papajohn

Hey Mr. Miller, apparently we disagree, but not really. We pretty much said the same thing. I say the cases stretch a little, you said they don't beyond a given point. (At least I think that's what you said.) But our communal point was that if you keep your loads sane, and don't try to make the 30-30 into something it's not, you should be okay.

But what do I know? You clearly have the edge in experience, after all, you have 22 more posts on this forum than me! (Teehee........)

Papajohn

All my loads are factory level, but not above.

This may be a really stupid question, but how do you determine what a "factory level" load is? I'm just getting back into reloading after several years and none of my reference materials tell me what the factory loads are. (Is this backed into based on their published velocities, etc.)

Great thread here.

Sahibdla,

To answer your question, "Don't 30-30 cases continue to stretch even though you either neck-size or use collet dies?":

Using the Lee Collet sizer when loading RCBS 30-180FN at 194 to 195 grains ready to fly, I push it out the 24" bbl of my 55 year old 3365A at approx. 2100 fps using a full load of H414 or W760 and can't even tell some of my cases have been fired (sans the neck opening up enough to release the bullet). When I put a max. LFC on my brass/bullet driving band I can notice some distortion in case length but it usually amounts to a minimal "un-squaring" of the case mouth which I fix on the case trimmer in a few seconds. It takes so long for my 30-30 Winchester brass to "grow" .005" in length when using the collet die exclusively that I have my brass separated in lots: short (2.020" - 2.025"), medium (2.025" - 2.030") and long (over 2.030"). Even when I need to set the shoulder back a hair (using my RCBS FL die) for smoother ejection, my cases don't usually lengthen more that a couple thou. Close tolerances mean long case life. It's ridiculous to recommend NOT using the Lee Collet die for lever guns as Lee does without explaining why; however, I suppose it would require too much effort on their part.

MC

Thanks guys, the answers made sense.

I gave the 30-30 to my son, so I'm not reloading for it. But if I ever do start loading for it again I'm picking a set of Lee collet dies.