silvertipmo
04-16-2006, 08:57 PM
Purpose of this thread is to blow off some steam on a few topics, how well thought out Idaho’s Fish & Game regulations are in managing cougars (their biologists know their stuff, and slipped some sense past the politicos) and challenging some nonsense been repeated too often by people claiming to know better.
Warning: this is long winded, even for me. Lot of steam to blow off.
Two ways to hunt cougars: still hunting and with dogs. What I mean by still hunting is stalking them, one on one, not hunting from a stand. Hunting with dogs way more likely to take cougars, but is a whole different sport.
With dogs, the sport is raising and training the dogs. By one’s self, sport is what is the cougar going to teach me this time, besides a good laugh at myself? Still hunting does have a success rate, but that’s not the point.
Idaho breaks cougar into three seasons: Still hunting, hunting with dogs; and training dogs. Grants two tags per year (like us still hunters going to take two the same year; could happen, but talking long odds).
Hunting cougars with dogs is necessary to control their numbers, but is a sport mostly concerned with dogs. The idea of having a training season where cougars are stalked by dogs and treed, but not killed is pure genius! That allows maximum hunting/training with minimal impact on the cougar. Still does have a negative impact on the cougar and needs to be controlled; but really extends the sport and allows fine tuning of cougar.
There are certain people seem to feel a need to feel holier than anyone else. They take up causes, not too well thought out, and come off like they are saving the planet. Ain’t talking about myself, but people even more ignorant!
Global warming. These people seem to think that the value in the environment is keeping everything static in their area and using ours for a fantasy playground. Unlike most of them, I believe not just in God, but that God gave creation some thought. The changes that occur are the way the planet renews it’s self. Can’t keep a major city (of millions) in the same place century after century before it needs some major environmental change. That’s like wanting to grow the same crop on the same acre for centuries, without no break or rejuvenation. And they never talk about the areas not being used by humans, that will shortly become prime real estate. Earth been way hotter and way colder; and we’ve made out just fine.
Lot of nonsense that without predators, deer/elk would proliferate until there was nothing left for them to eat; totally decimate the countryside. Seasons regulate deer/elk populations. Winter closes off much range and grazing; summer drought puts a limit on lower grazing. We hunt in the fall to reduce the herds to what can make it through the winter and leave the spring plenty for the fawns/calves to get a good start. Still, a bad winter kill lowers their population. May, or may not, make it back that high before the next bad winter. There is no benefit to the herds from hunting them year round and regular, like wild predators.
Wolves in Yellowstone Park have rejuvenated the vegetation, specifically a certain tree. Their argument goes something like: there were no predators in Yellowstone; therefore the elk/deer were overgrazing areas this tree needs to multiply; wolves put a stop to that by chasing the “offending” elk/deer out of there (notice, no mention of the wolves killing Bambi).
Have to ignore the facts to buy any part of that idea. Yellowstone did have a problem with a certain tree not reproducing but, was limited just to the Park; outside the Park, tree was reproducing just fine. Cougars were the dominant predator in that area before wolves (OK, grizzly are the dominant predator of where ever they happen to be at the moment). What the introduction of the exotic wolves did was chase the cougars out (to higher ground). Seriously, wolf range comes at the expense of cougar range. Cougar people now studying the negative impact of wolves on cougar; might soon be our allies in limiting the proliferation of exotic wolves.
Along these lines, just fellow Idaho guys and gals; what have you noticed of cougar sign in your area? Is dropping sharply in mine.
A word about predators. In workable numbers, workable from both their point of view and ours. They ain’t much of a problem, might not even notice they are there; unless you visit wild places frequently, live on the edge of “civilized” places, or pay really close attention. Not being noticed IS their stock in trade. It is only when their numbers fall off or rise, out of workable, that we notice. Both are undesirable. Balance is what is needed.
God watches over His own idiots, crazy people, fools and drunks; **** fools (my asterisks) on their own. You want to visit wild places, read up on them some first, not just one author or point of view. May just open your mind enough that the wild places will teach you. First time I tried, the wild retreated from me, left me in a ‘bubble of left out’. Then deer showed me a way in. Had a number of teachers since. Point is: be open to what they are teaching you, and they will teach you even more.
I get the suspicion that the counters of wolves, grizzly and cougars, who can’t hardly find any, are doing their counting from a ‘bubble of left out’.
Warning: this is long winded, even for me. Lot of steam to blow off.
Two ways to hunt cougars: still hunting and with dogs. What I mean by still hunting is stalking them, one on one, not hunting from a stand. Hunting with dogs way more likely to take cougars, but is a whole different sport.
With dogs, the sport is raising and training the dogs. By one’s self, sport is what is the cougar going to teach me this time, besides a good laugh at myself? Still hunting does have a success rate, but that’s not the point.
Idaho breaks cougar into three seasons: Still hunting, hunting with dogs; and training dogs. Grants two tags per year (like us still hunters going to take two the same year; could happen, but talking long odds).
Hunting cougars with dogs is necessary to control their numbers, but is a sport mostly concerned with dogs. The idea of having a training season where cougars are stalked by dogs and treed, but not killed is pure genius! That allows maximum hunting/training with minimal impact on the cougar. Still does have a negative impact on the cougar and needs to be controlled; but really extends the sport and allows fine tuning of cougar.
There are certain people seem to feel a need to feel holier than anyone else. They take up causes, not too well thought out, and come off like they are saving the planet. Ain’t talking about myself, but people even more ignorant!
Global warming. These people seem to think that the value in the environment is keeping everything static in their area and using ours for a fantasy playground. Unlike most of them, I believe not just in God, but that God gave creation some thought. The changes that occur are the way the planet renews it’s self. Can’t keep a major city (of millions) in the same place century after century before it needs some major environmental change. That’s like wanting to grow the same crop on the same acre for centuries, without no break or rejuvenation. And they never talk about the areas not being used by humans, that will shortly become prime real estate. Earth been way hotter and way colder; and we’ve made out just fine.
Lot of nonsense that without predators, deer/elk would proliferate until there was nothing left for them to eat; totally decimate the countryside. Seasons regulate deer/elk populations. Winter closes off much range and grazing; summer drought puts a limit on lower grazing. We hunt in the fall to reduce the herds to what can make it through the winter and leave the spring plenty for the fawns/calves to get a good start. Still, a bad winter kill lowers their population. May, or may not, make it back that high before the next bad winter. There is no benefit to the herds from hunting them year round and regular, like wild predators.
Wolves in Yellowstone Park have rejuvenated the vegetation, specifically a certain tree. Their argument goes something like: there were no predators in Yellowstone; therefore the elk/deer were overgrazing areas this tree needs to multiply; wolves put a stop to that by chasing the “offending” elk/deer out of there (notice, no mention of the wolves killing Bambi).
Have to ignore the facts to buy any part of that idea. Yellowstone did have a problem with a certain tree not reproducing but, was limited just to the Park; outside the Park, tree was reproducing just fine. Cougars were the dominant predator in that area before wolves (OK, grizzly are the dominant predator of where ever they happen to be at the moment). What the introduction of the exotic wolves did was chase the cougars out (to higher ground). Seriously, wolf range comes at the expense of cougar range. Cougar people now studying the negative impact of wolves on cougar; might soon be our allies in limiting the proliferation of exotic wolves.
Along these lines, just fellow Idaho guys and gals; what have you noticed of cougar sign in your area? Is dropping sharply in mine.
A word about predators. In workable numbers, workable from both their point of view and ours. They ain’t much of a problem, might not even notice they are there; unless you visit wild places frequently, live on the edge of “civilized” places, or pay really close attention. Not being noticed IS their stock in trade. It is only when their numbers fall off or rise, out of workable, that we notice. Both are undesirable. Balance is what is needed.
God watches over His own idiots, crazy people, fools and drunks; **** fools (my asterisks) on their own. You want to visit wild places, read up on them some first, not just one author or point of view. May just open your mind enough that the wild places will teach you. First time I tried, the wild retreated from me, left me in a ‘bubble of left out’. Then deer showed me a way in. Had a number of teachers since. Point is: be open to what they are teaching you, and they will teach you even more.
I get the suspicion that the counters of wolves, grizzly and cougars, who can’t hardly find any, are doing their counting from a ‘bubble of left out’.