Just to get some utside thoughts, give this a quick read and let me know what you think:

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/wwl041706khconfiscated.44851e00.html

Just to get some utside thoughts, give this a quick read and let me know what you think:

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/wwl041706khconfiscated.44851e00.html

It doesn't look like proper procedures were followed when firearms were seized. Here the LEO must give a receipt with the description and serial number of the firearm seized.

( EXAMPLE )

Type (Pistol, rifle, shotgun.)
Make (Manufacture)
Model
Cal.
Serial#

The receipt alone would provide proof of ownership. Or at the least who had possesion last.

Lee L.

Just to get some utside thoughts, give this a quick read and let me know what you think:

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/wwl041706khconfiscated.44851e00.html


Sounds like a tricky situation. During something like that (martial law?) the good guys really really need weapons and the bad guys really really don't. I guess if there's enough LE to make sure everybody behaves then no civilian needs a weapon--but when has that ever happened?

In short, in this respect this seems like a microcosmic examination of the national gun control debate--gun control nuts want all civilian guns gone because they think the cops can keep order by themselves, and the right-minded folks know that law enforcement can't possibly keep us all safe.

As for the procedure to get the guns back, and the numbers that weren't returned (and the reasons) it all seemed too general to comment on.

The Mayor screwed up, we all know where this will lead us! JP

Just to get some utside thoughts, give this a quick read and let me know what you think:

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/wwl041706khconfiscated.44851e00.html


I think the paper trail(red tape)is going to be the down fall of legal gun owners. A reciept was likley not issued during confiscation. Original buyers paperwork is likely lost from the disaster of the flooding. I have a few of my own that I can recite serial number from memory. Most folks could not do that. Dealer records may help if they still exist.

I like the lawsuit. The second amendment to the constitution of the United States of America is a purdy clear cut fact of life law of the land. I don't know what that will do for an individual without "proof of ownership", but some have broken #12 of THE TEN COMANDMENTS, ****it!

Cheezywan

It doesn't look like proper procedures were followed when firearms were seized. Here the LEO must give a receipt with the description and serial number of the firearm seized.

( EXAMPLE )

Type (Pistol, rifle, shotgun.)
Make (Manufacture)
Model
Cal.
Serial#

The receipt alone would provide proof of ownership. Or at the least who had possesion last.

Lee L.

Lee's point struck me too. Cuz you know, if your house is no more, what's that chance you have a proof of purchase? What's the proceedure for the police to be documenting what they find? In the chaos that was the disaster, can we resonably expect the police to be truly concerned with the detailed info of "found" guns? I'm not overly optimistic.

Not fun.

jonas

Lee's point struck me too. Cuz you know, if your house is no more, what's that chance you have a proof of purchase? What's the proceedure for the police to be documenting what they find? In the chaos that was the disaster, can we resonably expect the police to be truly concerned with the detailed info of "found" guns? I'm not overly optimistic.

Not fun.

jonas

They should have tagged any firearms removed from dwellings with at least the time, date and the address where they were removed.

All firearma collected should have a duplicate of the receipt attached and the name and signature of the officer making the collection.

There is no excuse for shoddy police work.

Lee L.

Lee's point struck me too. Cuz you know, if your house is no more, what's that chance you have a proof of purchase? What's the proceedure for the police to be documenting what they find? In the chaos that was the disaster, can we resonably expect the police to be truly concerned with the detailed info of "found" guns? I'm not overly optimistic.

Not fun.

jonas


This I know.

When they wre required to enter each house to search for bodies, any gun laying out in the open was taken away...make as kind of sense as nearly every house with anything of value was eventually looted.

They could have at least wrote doen the address...but considering many of the house were entered by chopping a hole in the roof (becasue the water was still 12 feet deep) and the searches were perfrmed by 19year old kids from all over the nation, not too surprised that no one decided to dive into the fecal soup to look for street signs or house numbers.

Coming ut of the city (my brother's story) by pre-arranged caravan...they weren't coming out unless they were allowed to drive out...noticed the national guard troops/snipers on roof tops and set up along the sides of the Mississipi River bridges (get a good over view from up there).

Some were taken from people as they walked along...others from people as they were FORCED out of their homes.

Went door-to-door in some neighborhoods, with various degrees fo force, to forcrully evcuate people...and dump them into the cess-pit of the SuperDome or convention center.

High and dry on the 3rd floor, with the long stairwell back filled with nearly all the furnature to block it from looters AND the brown shirts that were forcing evacuation, brother looked like an extra from the old Road Warrier movie...absoultly "clinked" when he walked. With no way up (besides removing a couple of tons of furnature) and never really sure what they would meet on the way up, they pretty much negotiated a safe pass...guns and all.

They should have tagged any firearms removed from dwellings with at least the time, date and the address where they were removed.

All firearma collected should have a duplicate of the receipt attached and the name and signature of the officer making the collection.

There is no excuse for shoddy police work.

Lee L.

My guess (which, of course, ain't worth much), is that the chaos will go quite way in "explaining" any missed protocol. In many instances, that might be completely justified. Doubt anyone will ever have a truly clear picture. Minus the folks who were known the have broken the law and abondoned their stations, I'm sure the police were doing the best they could given a terrible situation.

It does raise a whole lotta "what ifs". Next time? Possible violent crimes averted? Monday morning QB'ing...

But yeah, proceedure is there for a reason.

jonas

My guess (which, of course, ain't worth much), is that the chaos will go quite way in "explaining" any missed protocol. In many instances, that might be completely justified. Doubt anyone will ever have a truly clear picture. Minus the folks who were known the ahve broken the law and abondon their stations, I'm sure the police were doing the best they could given a terrible situation.

It does raise a whole lotta "what ifs". Next time? Possible violent crimes averted? Monday morning QB'ing...

But yeah, proceedure is there for a reason.

jonas


Rumor here is that the more organized "ganstas" have learned from their mistakes, will proably see a more organized atempt at looting.

Has law enforcement learned from their mistakes? Time will tell, but from the looks of things, they haven't.

Rumor here is that the more organized "ganstas" have learned from their mistakes, will proably see a more organized atempt at looting.

Has law enforcement learned from their mistakes? Time will tell, but from the looks of things, they haven't.

Perfect. Time to move north, pal. :D

All,

Maybe this is relevent, maybe not.

We got hit hard by a flood here in central Texas in 1998. Raging water about five feet in the house that pulled the doors off, broke windows, floated my Porsche in the garage, and ruined almost every book, record, music recording, picture and sentimental bit of anything I ever owned.

Two differences:

1) When the authorities said "evacuate" we evacuated. They came down the street in a fire truck with a bullhorn--once.

2) I took all my guns with me--along with computers, cats, guitars, and wife. Not necessarily in that order.

The looters showed up two days later. The National Guard showed up three days later. We were back in our destroyed house before either--armed to the teeth, and with a sign that said "you loot, we shoot" stuck in the middle of our muddy front yard.

I like that, Rifleman 7777 -

Sorta like the sign that says "Trespassers will be shot - survivors will be prosecuted".

kdub, we put up a sign after someone broke into the family cabin through the picture window. Similar to the one you mention. Different in one way.

Trespassers will be shot.
Survivors will be riddled.

Reading that just makes me really angry. For the sake of preserving the non-political, non-inflamatory nature of this forum, I won't post any of what I just wrote on the subject.

Perfect. Time to move north, pal. :D

NOpe...if it comes to pass, will be a devil of a battle, but Southern boys aren't known for running.

NOpe...if it comes to pass, will be a devil of a battle, but Southern boys aren't known for running.


I don't know about that, signed, Yank ;)

Oh, I did a bad thing! :rolleyes:

Just kidding, give 'em what for!! JP

You need more auto's!!! Call Me!

NOpe...if it comes to pass, will be a devil of a battle, but Southern boys aren't known for running.


Indeed. I would hope not, just thought I'd offer!

Indeed. I would hope not, just thought I'd offer!

Come to the conslusion that during this type of civil unrest, may well get killed, but it won't be for lack of shooting back.


Not real sure of the legality of gun confiscation...do understand some of it.

Next hurrican, will proably have to leave house and home undefended...50/50 chance. Either i'll be on the hospital relief team, the ones that come back ASAP (tall jeep..chain saw...wench...guns...generally i get where I'm going)

OR

Will be in the hospital on the inside team that has to stay until relief team comes in. With hosptials (and the vast supply of drugs) being high on looter's lists, will have to give some thought to emergency arms. May just have to buy a replacment kelTec 9mm folder (which fits nicely in a thin briefcase, along with five 33mound Glock mags and 100 extra boxed rounds).

Like others have posted, who amoung us has all of their firearms properly documented (like in a will, with serial numbers, model, make, etc.)? Let alone a bill of sale or receipt? I doubt I could produce receipts for even 1/4 of the firearms I have. This Katrina event really highlights the need to keep a record w/serial no's - and photos if possible - in a safe place. That "safe place" is a tough one to meet in an event like Katrina.

The above assumes that if your firearms were confiscated, they were than documented properly by those confiscating, and, were then taken to a safe place to be recovered later. Sounds as if that was sorely lacking.

You know what the sad thing is? If I didn't get the NRA mags, I probably wouldn't know that this was even an issue. The mainstream media is virtually silent on it. If not for the NRA and other 2nd amendment groups, and first-hand accounts from people like Ribbonstone, it's a non-story.

Like others have posted, who amoung us has all of their firearms properly documented (like in a will, with serial numbers, model, make, etc.)? Let alone a bill of sale or receipt?

.
I'm affraid I do, down at police headquarters.

Like others have posted, who amoung us has all of their firearms properly documented (like in a will, with serial numbers, model, make, etc.)? Let alone a bill of sale or receipt? I doubt I could produce receipts for even 1/4 of the firearms I have. This Katrina event really highlights the need to keep a record w/serial no's - and photos if possible - in a safe place. That "safe place" is a tough one to meet in an event like Katrina.

The above assumes that if your firearms were confiscated, they were than documented properly by those confiscating, and, were then taken to a safe place to be recovered later. Sounds as if that was sorely lacking.

You know what the sad thing is? If I didn't get the NRA mags, I probably wouldn't know that this was even an issue. The mainstream media is virtually silent on it. If not for the NRA and other 2nd amendment groups, and first-hand accounts from people like Ribbonstone, it's a non-story.

I did...but none of the records (paper or CD) survived....then again, nearly none of the guns did either.

Need a seperate place to keep those records...now have a listing at friend's houses, locked away with their other papers...and I have theirs.

A couple of months back, it finally dawned on me that I should have my guns insured. When I went from 3 to having 9 in a matter of months, it finally clicked. Called my insurance guy. Said a rider on my renter's insurance would be about $70, almost double what I pay on my policy now...but certainly doable. But, in order to get it, he said I need documented details (make, yr, serials, etc), signed off by a shop owner. Soooo, not having done it yet, and talking about disasters...wouldn't this provide a outside-the-home (ie, safe) papertrail? And wouldn't normal homeowner's insurance do that same? So if something were to happen, the ins. co. would have the paperwork needed to reaclaim weapons from the police.

Dunno...just thinking outloud. It still early...

jonas

Mine are registered with the Puerto Rico Police Dept. It is a requirement. now that doesn't really mean they know how many and which guns I own.
And if they did, I'm not sure they would tell me.
These are the clown which took 2 1/2 months to register my Smith-Corona 1903-A3 because they had no such arms manufacturer on their data base.
Seven weeks before I could take it home from the gun shop that had it in its custody!

Mine are registered with the Puerto Rico Police Dept. It is a requirement. now that doesn't really mean they know how many and which guns I own.
And if they did, I'm not sure they would tell me.
These are the clown which took 2 1/2 months to register my Smith-Corona 1903-A3 because they had no such arms manufacturer on their data base.
Seven weeks before I could take it home from the gun shop that had it in its custody!

Luis, I'll give you the same advice I gave our friend in New Orleans: time to move north!!

Kidding! But, jeesh, what a hassle.

jonas

Jonas, you have no idea! Texas, New Mexico and Arizona are looking really good. Vermont I was at one summer long, long ago, but now I would only consider it if I could afford to have another residence (much further) South.

Jonas, you have no idea! Texas, New Mexico and Arizona are looking really good. Vermont I was at one summer long, long ago, but now I would only consider it if I could afford to have another residence (much further) South.

Now that I'm more involved with guns, I pay much closer attention to the legal aspect of the issues. This interest has been furthered by two chances to move to to places with fairly strict gun laws: Canada and the stae of MA. Neither has happened, yet. In the meantime, VT looks all the better.

Luckily, we don't get many natural disasters up this way. But, for those interested, the Discovery Channel has a show called 'Perfect Disaster' (http://dsc.discovery.com/tvlistings/episode.jsp?episode=6&cpi=25038&gid=0&channel=DSC)
This one chronicles the big ice storm of 1998 we had up this way. The show focuses on Montreal, because they got hammered. Wasn't quite as bad here, but pretty freaky. No looting...too cold? :D

Anywho, back on topic...The NOLA situation is definitly worth keeping an eye on.

jonas

I'm affraid I do, down at police headquarters.

Yeah, I forgot about our northern, and much southern brothers (and across the pond). The "evil do-ers" have tried (over and over) the registration schemes here, successful somewhat in liberal enclaves only.

I would be willing to bet that this registration will eventually be used more successfully in confiscation, than for return of rightfully owned firearms in some natural disaster like the Katrina debacle. I hope not for everyone's sake.

Need a seperate place to keep those records...now have a listing at friend's houses, locked away with their other papers...and I have theirs.

Good call Ribbonstone; that's the way to do it. Records with someone you trust, and not in "official" hands.

Will see how this all plays out. Looks many of the owners can get thier guns back, but some of them are never going to...and considering the storage condtions, they maight not want them back.

Got a "pass" on income tax until August. One of the things I have to finish is a complete listing of the stuff i lost...a whole hosefull is a lot to list...with price paid and replacemnt prices....guns, funature, books, etc. My borther finished his list; 27 pages single spaced.

Just wondering...know where the rusted hulks of most of the guns are...but MY records and the records of the gun shops are toast. Some of them were bought before there were even any paperwork requirments at all...some were antiques with no FFL type paper owrk required...and some wee private purchaces between indiviuals. A lot of loading gear, powder, bullets, etc. Not sure what to do about the gifts.

Eventually, will come up with a number that can be subracted from income this year.....but I REALLY WISH I HAD KEPT A COPY OF MY RECORDS IN A SEPERATE CITY!

I would be willing to bet that this registration will eventually be used more successfully in confiscation, than for return of rightfully owned firearms in some natural disaster like the Katrina debacle. I hope not for everyone's sake.

Your right there. The bigest "buy back" of guns here in '96 I think netted about 450 000 firearms from the whole country. One importer in Queensland had imported about 430 000 SKS SKK rifles, only one of the models that was banned. The ban included all centerfire semi-auto rifles and in most cases semi-auto rimfires and shotguns and pump action shotguns. That was the start of registation.

Your right there. The bigest "buy back" of guns here in '96 I think netted about 450 000 firearms from the whole country. One importer in Queensland had imported about 430 000 SKS SKK rifles, only one of the models that was banned. The ban included all centerfire semi-auto rifles and in most cases semi-auto rimfires and shotguns and pump action shotguns. That was the start of registation.


Is a bill before the state legislature...will forbit the taking of guns during an emergency from people not breaking any law. Would still take them from folks carring them around without a permit...but would not allow confiscation of homeowners protecting their property or businesses.

BTW: are running background checks on the people who are attempting to get back the guns that wre confiscated..and requiring some documentation that it's your gun. Now many of mine wre bought before 1968...some were gifts or left to me in wills...and some were pre-1899 (but still perfectly functional). None of those would proably have the documetnation they want.

Not sure about the background check..seems like "double dipping"...while a person who cannot pass a back ground check now can be forbidden to won guns, they should be able to decide for themselves how to dispose of them.

Is a bill before the state legislature...will forbit the taking of guns during an emergency from people not breaking any law. Would still take them from folks carring them around without a permit...but would not allow confiscation of homeowners protecting their property or businesses.

Idaho just passed (in the last month or so) a similar bill; don't know what the exact wording was, but ID is a very gun-friendly state. But there will likely always be local cowboys (like Nagin) that will do what they want until someone challenges them, like the NRA and other groups are doing in NO.

Not sure about the background check..seems like "double dipping"...while a person who cannot pass a back ground check now can be forbidden to won guns, they should be able to decide for themselves how to dispose of them.

Good point. They should be able to gift them to someone.

Reasonbly sure that none of it will make a bit of difference under matrial law.

ANd that's pretty much the whole point of martial law...it's a short cut, last ditch procedure that (when done right) can cut through the BS and get things done right now. If you are lucky, it works, and (like the gun confiscation issue) we get to hash out the right or wrong of it after the emergency passes.


IF we aren't lucky, martial law continues indefinately.

The Arizona legislature passed, but our female Democrat Govenor refused to sign a similar bill that was drafted as a counter to the N.O. illegal confication.

Her justification? Said there has never been a situation here that would require such protection!! :eek:

The Arizona legislature passed, but our female Democrat Govenor refused to sign a similar bill that was drafted as a counter to the N.O. illegal confication.

Her justification? Said there has never been a situation here that would require such protection!! :eek:

Idiot.

Won't have the same situation, but there is always some possibile situation that would endanger vast numbers of the population.

All,

I mentioned earlier in this post that we had been hit hard by a flood in Central Texas in 1998. We learned a few things.

One thing we learned is that a food sealer (seal a meal type) will seal a pistol or rifle in a water proof and pretty sturdy bag.

For the pistol, use a standard bag. For the rifle, use the bag material that come on rolls and simply make the bag as long as you need.

The sealer machine sucks the air out and makes a good airtight package for storage or transportation under wet conditions.

We moved from the river to a big hill, but I would still "seal a meal" a weapon that I wasn't planning on using for a long time.