Hello Folks -

Seeking opinions on the following rifles, all in 7MM Rem Mag:

Remington 700 Sendero Syn SS
Sako M75 Hunter Syn SS
Tikka T3 Laminated SS
Weatherby Fibermark Mark V Syn Blue

Primary requirements are out of the box accuracy and dependability. would concider the Weatherby Accumark if so convinced.

Use: Coyotes (not keeping pelt), intermediate range varminting, deer, elk. Hanguns and shotguns have been my forte, moving into the rifle market. I hunt with one handgun, one shotgun, and I want just one rifle. I plan to mate it to a Burris Black Diamond, Bushnell Elite 4200, or Zeiss Conquest in 2.5-10x50.

Thank you in advance for your opinions and have a blessed week.

Alec

I shoot a T3 Laminated Stainless in .270.

Love it. Shoots sub-MOA, regularly...with cheap ammo. Out of the box, nothing done to it. Only use the cheap stuff for practice. Shoot Winchester Supreme Accubond's for deer. Exceedingly accurate.

Using Leupold VX-II 3-9x

Interestingly, was at a local shop last week. Had never been there...high prices. Asked the guy his opinion on Tikkas. His two concerns:

1) Parts hard to get. Not sure why, but that's been his experience. They are owned by Beretta, so you generally have better luck dealing with a Beretta dist.

2) He felt that Tikka's guarantee of MOA isn't good enough. Says everything should do that. As such, he likes Browning...

That being said, I do very much like my Tikka. If you can get one at a good price (under $700), then you have a pretty good deal.

Note: there was a recall on the SS. Small batch of bad steel from the Sako factory. Only affected specific guns. If you're serious about the Tikka, talk to the dealer about this. I had mine replaced.

Also note that Sako just put out it's new 85 line. A bit less expensive. Available in the "Grey Wolf" version..very nice looking. They have also chambered the new .338 Federal. Just food for thought...

Good luck

jonas

Sako M75 SS. If you want the best out of the box rifle in the world.

Had one in a .300 Win mag. with a 3.5-10x44mm stainless Conquest on it.
Outstanding rifle!!

Weatherby is over priced, IMHO.

I would recmond, if hunting lower 48, a Browning A-Bolt in 270 Winchester or 30:06. I believe they are the best there is with out going to a custom shop.

Good luck & God Bless, Leon

Hello Folks -

Seeking opinions on the following rifles, all in 7MM Rem Mag:

Remington 700 Sendero Syn SS
Sako M75 Hunter Syn SS
Tikka T3 Laminated SS
Weatherby Fibermark Mark V Syn Blue

Primary requirements are out of the box accuracy and dependability. would concider the Weatherby Accumark if so convinced.

Use: Coyotes (not keeping pelt), intermediate range varminting, deer, elk. Hanguns and shotguns have been my forte, moving into the rifle market. I hunt with one handgun, one shotgun, and I want just one rifle. I plan to mate it to a Burris Black Diamond, Bushnell Elite 4200, or Zeiss Conquest in 2.5-10x50.

Thank you in advance for your opinions and have a blessed week.

Alec
The Sendero might be too heavy to hunt (walking around) with. Mine was, so I traded it.

I am a Weatherby fan. The Accumark is just heavy enough to handle the 7mm MAg but not too heavy to hunt with.
Mine are very accurate and that Zeiss scope sounds like a plan to me.
I have a Tikka Lite that would probably be too lightweight. It would belt you pretty good with recoil if its even offered, but the hunter model looks good.

Flip a coin and go buy your gun!

The Sendero might be too heavy to hunt (walking around) with. Mine was, so I traded it.

I am a Weatherby fan. The Accumark is just heavy enough to handle the 7mm MAg but not too heavy to hunt with.
Mine are very accurate and that Zeiss scope sounds like a plan to me.
I have a Tikka Lite that would probably be too lightweight. It would belt you pretty good with recoil if its even offered, but the hunter model looks good.

Flip a coin and go buy your gun!
BTW, you can buy the Accumark for around $1300, Sakos are going up in rate pretty fast. The vanguard standard or Sub MOA might be worth you looking at for around $525- $750.

Thank you Gentlemen -

All your opinions are most welcome. TPV: I just might have to do that; flip a coin! I analyze things to Kingdom come and in the end I just have to go with the gut.

The Tikka vs. Sako threads at this forum present a fairly uniform opinion: they will perform fairly close in the field, but the Sako will be more refined, slightly stronger, and all stainless innerds. They have the same barrel apparently. I would lean to the Sako because of the quality advantage, but at twice the price it's not a done deal. Tikkas appear to be very popular with the average Eurpoean hunter (of which I am probably the American counterpart).

I was worried about the weight too. According to the website specs, the Sendero is 8Lb, Fibermark is 8Lb, Accumark is 8.75Lb, and the Sako is 8Lb. From what I can tell the difference between the Fibermark and the Accumark is the free-floating fluted heavy barrel and it has aluminum bedding. The Zeiss was also recommended on another thread - thanks.

I know I should be concidering a Browning and thanks for that recommendation - it's prideful of me, but a while ago I was left a BLR in .308 and it was awful so I have not put them on my list. Granted, it was one of the '70s Japanese makes, but the accuracy was terrible, the front sight fell off, the action was suggish, and it had a fairly harsh recoil. Even the bluing was spotty. This is why I will not even concider a Howa.

Not too much enthusiasm for Remingtons at this forum when discussing other makes. Even though Remington claims the Sendero is the most accurate OTC rifle they make, does not mean it is more accurate than the Sako or Weatherby Accumark.

Pulling a coin out of my pocket...

Thanks again folks - and have a blessed day.

Alec

Alec;

I looked at the Browning site today. Man, they have some spendy guns! I was suprised at their costs.

The Tikka (and Sako, I pressume) laminateds have a fine "carry weight", and offer great durability. I avoided the T3 Lite because my hunting doesn't require miles and miles of carry-time. Besides, the weight difference isn't that great. However, you're generally better off (accuracy-wise) with a heavier gun. Oh, and the laminated looks much better! :D

If you want a Sako, look at the new '85' line....

Good luck

jonas

Thanks Jonas - I did try to look up their 85 range but I could not find a link at the Sako site. I'll Google it.

You're right - the T3 laminated SS is lighter; 6.75Lbs. Almost 2 Lbs less than then Sendero. I too am not anticipated a lot of hiking; in a stand mostly. 50 acres of woodland. I have about 20 acres of open field with a moderate amount of hole-dwellers in it. Without concidering weight too much, I want the most dependable and accurate (OOTB) rifle I can get for less than $1500.

Thanks again - peace and blessings.

Alec -

$1500?? Wow...I need to come hunt with you!! :)

Yeah, Sako hasn't updated their site. Gotta go to Beretta's site....

http://www.berettausa.com/product/product_rifles_main.htm

Anytime Jonas!

My budget is that only because I am not anticipating the puchase of two or more rifles; one for varmints/coyotes and one for deer/elk. I probably will not try to hit any of the prairie dogs, ground hogs, or coyotes past 400 yards. The drop on the 7 mm Rem Mag is not that bad: ~5.5-6" at 300 yards zeroed at 200 yards. Compared to a 22-250, which has ~1 inch less drop than that. I'd rather invest in one rifle and master it than try to juggle 2 or 3 rifles.

I hunt with one shotgun. I don't hunt birds, just coyotes, boar and deer with it. I use two 3" loads (BB and 00) out of the 28" tube on a full choke with a 2x20 scope. I call the yotes, stalk the boar, and stand with the deer.

I hunt (the least) with just one handgun, a model 686 in .357. It's actually my carry while I hunt, but I've taken some rabbit (not much left) with it and helped a mate take down a boar with it when his 7.62x39 was not stopping it quick enough. I use 125 gr Remington Gold Sabre JHP.

Thanks!! I am at the Beretta site now... Looks like the 85 has a 22.5" barrel vs. the 24.5" barrel on the 75. The 85 claims the barrel is match grade though; I don't see that language for the 75. Both weigh in at 7.75 Lbs.

Peace and blessings,

Alec -

Yup, so the 85 is more like the Tikka. Which means @ 22.5", you're not likely to get the 'factory specs' out of ammo tested in a 26". But, really...its ok. Mine is a .270 and shoots just fine!

Thanks Jonas,

I Googled Sako 75 match grade and indeed I found more than page at the Baretta sight that clearly states the 75 has a match-grade barrel. This is encouraging. If functionally all other things were equal, I might opt for the 75 with the 24.5" barrel.

http://www.berettausa.com/communities/hunting/rifle_hunting_feature.htm


I think I am almost sold. The Weatherby Accumark is tempting, but is a pound heavier and MSRP is ~$400 more than the Sako 75. I'm now convinced both are of excellent quality. Have not heard a lot (or any) of strong praise for the Sendero.

Thanks again - peace and blessings.

Alec -

Alec:

I'm sure you'll be very pleased!!

Good luck

jonas

Sako M75 SS. If you want the best out of the box rifle in the world.

Had one in a .300 Win mag. with a 3.5-10x44mm stainless Conquest on it.
Outstanding rifle!!

Weatherby is over priced, IMHO.

Actually, I meant overrated, but typed overpriced on the Weatherby statement.
Sorry.

Ths Sako will make you a great rifle!!
You'll love it when you work that silky smooth action.

The best laid plans...

It turns out that Sako/Tikka/Beretta only ship to retailers that do a certain amount of volume, which ruled out the local gun shop and the next local gun shop. Drove 35 miles to Atlantic Guns (after calling...) to discover that 1) Sako does not sell the 75 anymore and 2) they do not sell the 85 in 7 mm Rem. Mag (despite what their web site says). Even if I wanted another cailber, I'd probably have to wait until the end of July for the 85.

Bill at Atlantic Guns sold me on the 2006 Remington 700 Sendero SF II. He had a Sendero I there (in blue, non fluted) and I liked the way it felt in my hands and I liked the action. As humbly as he could, he made note of the fact that any of the rifles I was concidering would shoot as well I could make them. I knew what he meant. It's 12 oz heavier than the 75/85. Lord knows that for what I want to use it for this will be a fine tool. I was very disappointed though that I was not going to end up with Sako in the caliber I wanted after all our discussions and brain wave expediture (and the commute to buy one).

I did though discover a brand new gun shop and the staff there were excellent. And to boot, Bill gave me a great price (~$100 off MSRP) on the rifle ($1050).

Thank you again for your opinions -

Peace and blessings,

Alec

I had a S/F Sendero that shot like a house of fire!!
Little heavy, but most Sendero's are fairly accurate.
Mine was a .300 RUM.

Good for you!!

Hi Cheaptrick -

You might have been right both ways and no worries! When I compared all the specs and the descriptions, and really though about what I was getting, the Weatherby did seem a bit over priced. They have a great reputation, but in the end, what they were offering did not match what they wanted so I went with the Remington. Pehaps in this case over-rated and over-priced were intertwined.

With the 'cheaper' rifle, I am concidering more seriously the Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50 scope. It's $170 more than the Burris Black Diamond 4-16x50. I only mention this because you offered welcome advice on another thread about this. Thanks.

Peace and blessings,

Alec

Well, my "overrated" comment wasn't made to put down the Weatherbys or their owners.
Apology on my part there.

I just liked other rifles better, is all.

Please give us a range report when you get it up and running.

Thank you Cheaptrick -

I understand (or more accurately have come to understand!) that people have their favorites and no doubt the Weatherby has a great reputation. Thanks for your comments on the SF and I will certainly give a range report! I am fortunate enough to live about 2 miles from a rifle range. I've been told for years my DEA badge (I'm a geek pencil pusher, not one of the real heros who keep the junk off the street, may God bless them) will get me in anywhere but I can't stand abuse; I've not earned it like those guys have. I frequent the public ranges on the weekends or my hunting plot.

Travel (work and pleasure) will keep me away until the end of June but by then I will have the rifle and scope mated and I will spend a blissful day trying a variety of ammo and zeroing the rig. I plan to try the Federal 165gr Sierra GameKing SPBT, Remington 150gr Scirroco, Remington 150gr Accutip, Federal 150 gr Sierra GameKing SPBT, and Hornady 139gr SST.

I do reload my handgun (.357 and .40 S&W) rounds, and will likely get into this as well after the purchase of some dies, brass and bullets. I want to see how the factory stuff works first so I know what I can rely upon in a pinch. But I will be taking detailed records of what does work well in the SF II (for me) and post that. Also the reloads when I get around to that.

Peace and blessings,

Alec -

Sorry I missed your thread earlier, I would have had to throw this into the mix http://www.savagearms.com/114Classic.htm
savage is making some of the most accurate rifles out of the box right now

jb12string -

Your comments would have been most welcome - and Jack at the Gun Center in Frederick, MD said the same thing. I believe I've heard that elsewhere before. I certainly did go through their entire line. None of the 12 series (heavy barreled) is chambered in 7mm RM. I was closely looking at the 116, the one rifle (with different magazine options) chambered in 7mm RM. I guess anyone else reading this thread with perhaps the same decisions to make might concider the Savage more seriously than I did.

We're practically neighbors - and I see, also brothers in Christ - praise the Lord for your signature. Do you know the Foors, in Everette? They run a 600 acre hunting lodge that they also use as a witnessing platform. It's called The Wild. Andy Foor is the proprietor. They have a son named Adam who's also a guitar player and loves the Lord. How about Buck, Buck's Trophy Shop?

Peace and blessings,

Alec

I have both tikkas and sakos and they are great guns. Have had remingtons but since I met the finns the remys are gone. I have a tiika ss/syn in 7 mag, with the 3x9 leupold and sling it weighs right at 7 1/2 pounds, it's a joy to shoot and carry. The sakos are the way to go if you can swing the dough and the weight isn't a factor, my sako wood .270 is 9lbs all up and my 300 wm is another 6 oz. or so. They (sako and Tikka) have the smoothest actions out there. I'm very pleased with both.

Yeah, if you are close to Fredrick, we aren't real far apart, I am about 20 miles north of Gettysburg. I am not familiar with either of those places. You should come up to the gun club I belong to sometime for the running deer shoots, check it out at www.uafg.org

I know I should be concidering a Browning and thanks for that recommendation - it's prideful of me, but a while ago I was left a BLR in .308 and it was awful so I have not put them on my list. Granted, it was one of the '70s Japanese makes, but the accuracy was terrible, the front sight fell off, the action was suggish, and it had a fairly harsh recoil. Even the bluing was spotty. This is why I will not even concider a Howa.



I think you'd be pleasantly surprised what new BLR's will do now, very accurate, easy to handle and a great rifle. Many members here have them. I wouldn't discount them so quick based on the experience you had, they are some good rifles so I would recommend at least taking a look at the A-bolt, you may be surprised.

If CZ or Kimber made a 7mm RM I'd say take a look at them as well...Kimber does come in the WSM's and the 300 WM... they are a great rifle, match grade barrel, pillar and glass bedded:

http://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles/8400wsm/

I don't know if you are dead set on the 7mm RM, just wanted to let you know of other options that were out there as well. If you are set on the rifle models you mentioned, I personally like the Sako and Tikka myself.

Hi M1Garand -

Thanks for your post and I am sure you are right in suggesting that my previous experience with the '77 BRL should not carry through to today's models. I must have improved!

It turns out that Sako/Tikka/Beretta only ship to retailers that do a certain amount of volume, which ruled out the local gun shop and the next local gun shop. Drove 35 miles to Atlantic Guns (after calling...) to discover that 1) Sako does not sell the 75 anymore and 2) they do not sell the 85 in 7 mm Rem. Mag (despite what their web site says). Even if I wanted another cailber, I'd probably have to wait until the end of July for the 85.

I ended up buying the 2006 Remington 700 Sendero SF II in 7mm RM. I just bought a 4-16x50 Burris Black Diamond for it. Can't wait to take it to the range once it is all rigged up.

Thanks again, peace, and blessings.

Alec -

Sounds good, let us know how it shoots, and if you can post some groups.

Thanks M1Garand - Will do! Can't wait. I'll post data to a website and direct you there.

I plan to try the Federal 165gr Sierra GameKing SPBT, Federal 150 gr Sierra GameKing SPBT, and Hornady 139gr SST. Might also try the Remington 150 in Scirocco, Nosler, and Accutip.

Once I determine which factory load it likes the best and zero it in I will try a matrix of 140, 150, 160, and 170 gr Sierra GameKing SPBT with Accurate 3100, IMR 7828, and Hodgdon Retumbo. I'll shoot 2 groups of 5 for each combination. Not sure what primers I will use, probably Winchester mag or Federal.

Peace and blessings,

Alec -

Guntest magazine did a test of the Weatherby against the Sako a few years ago. The Sako was judged to be too heavy, and not as accurate as the Weatherby Mark 5, I think it was .270 caliber but cannot remember. At any rate, the Sako may be a better gun, I don't know because I own two Mark v's and they both shoot very well with factory ammunition. I like the 24 inch barrel and they are not all that heavy. In 7 mm rem mag I don't know they are probably heavier than my 30-06 and .270. The mags have a 26 inch barrel which is OK by me, less noise close to my face.

Thanks Jimmyp50

I would have loved to have been able to get my hands on the Sako - first the 75, then the 85. But the 85 is not chambered for the 7 mm RM. I just went with my gut and settled on the Remington over the Weatherby. I am sure the Weatherby would have made a great firearm, more than I could master. I am quite pleased with my choice of the Sendero. I think it will give me a platform if I ever want to get into varminting (the true blue kind, not just picking off coyotes and crows). I have always wanted a 26" heavy barreled rifle ever since having to sell my AR-15 sporter (28" floating stainless bull barrel, Nikon glass) when I moved from Indiana to the Peoples Republic of California in '98. Now that I am in Maryland, I wish I had kept it with a friend.

I have a couple of Sakos and am very happy with them. I think of Tikka as simply a no frills Sako, good for the dollar. I've never thought of Weatherby as being all that accurate. Remington has become a sore spot with me in the past couple of years. Too many bean counters and too much obsessin with the bottom line. My older Remingtons from the '70s and '80s are excellent without a doubt, but I've lost confidence with them. I'd rather spend the extra money for the Sako. Just one mans opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Just my .02 worth. I have a few custom rifles on Remington actions. The one complaint I have about Remington actions is they have too many coming out with either the mounting screw holes drilled off center, ot the action itself is not milled right. When mounting a base, too many of them have to be shimmed to be level. They are very accurate, but could have better QC when turning out the actions.

I think Tikka is a well made action and have heard they shoot good. I still like Savage for a true action and extremely accurate out of the box.

i personally prefer the three position saftey which is one reason why I really miss winchester m70's

i personally prefer the three position saftey which is one reason why I really miss winchester m70's

I can think of about 5 design reasons why I would miss my Model 70.

Morning Folks -

I was out chopping wood when I got the call that my rifle had come in - I am now the proud owner of a Sendero SFII in 7mm Rem. Mag. My first bolt action rifle (I used to have a BLR, and I have an AR-15 Sporter). I'll probably clean it tonight. They only had 175gr factory rounds at the shop so I think I will just reload some 150 gr Sierra GameKing BT in front of 4 or 5 different powders and sight it in, in a couple of weeks.

Have a blessed week.

Good deal.

http://reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=48

You may already know about this site. If so, disregard.
They have several loads to consider.

Morning Folks -

I was out chopping wood when I got the call that my rifle had come in - I am now the proud owner of a Sendero SFII in 7mm Rem. Mag. My first bolt action rifle (I used to have a BLR, and I have an AR-15 Sporter). I'll probably clean it tonight. They only had 175gr factory rounds at the shop so I think I will just reload some 150 gr Sierra GameKing BT in front of 4 or 5 different powders and sight it in, in a couple of weeks.

Have a blessed week.I had a master gunsmith who told all of his customers who purchased his custom rifles in 7mm mag that the best bullet weight for the 7mm mag was the 175gr they followed his advice collecting elk,deer,bear,sheep goats,and african game,etc.

I had a master gunsmith who told all of his customers who purchased his custom rifles in 7mm mag that the best bullet weight for the 7mm mag was the 175gr they followed his advice collecting elk,deer,bear,sheep goats,and african game,etc.

Now years ago I might have agreed with that gunsmith of yours but not today understand! There are today, many very fine premium bullets on the market. The Barnes TSX bullet does not have to weigh in at 180 grains to go elk hunting with a 30-06.......the 165 or even 150 will get the job done.

The 7mm mag is no different in my eyes, the 160 grain bullet in a Nosler partition. Trophy Bonded Bear Claws or the Swift A Frames, not to mention the Norfork bullets can be used instead of the 175 grainers.

I went through the same thoughts two years ago. I finally got down to two choices, The remington and the Tikka. Having spent most of my time carrying a rifle during my hunts, I decided lighter is better. I bought a tikka T-3 light stainless in 7mm-08. I own about a dozen guns now and It's a favorite. No problems ever, silky smooth action, quiet safety, Very accurate. 2" 200 yard groups first time out WITH wind. But the best part is an ajustable trigger. Mines at three lbs and breaks like glass. I shot a friends 30-06 the other day, an older 700. I was polite, but I wouldn't take 5 of them for my Tikka.

Morning Gentlemen -

There certainly seems to be a lot of enthusiasm for the Tikkas; if my wife ever wants a lighter rifle I will likely get her one of these or a Sako in 243 or 270. I can't explain why I did not concider the Savage more seriously; I've now had many tell me it's the best value on the market.

I cleaned and oiled the rifle yesterday out of the box. Once oiled properly, I was more pleased with the action smoothness. It was realively easy to strip down, but I really had to squeeze the action down and the floor plate up to engage the two hex retaining screws. I thought it would have been easier. I was also surprised to find that the hex screws were metric, not standard. Turns out the stock is H-S Precision, which is kind of cool, and very light.

My base, scope, rings, bi-pod all came today vis Midway, but I guess that's for another thread. Again, I'll certainly post some range data when I have it. Thank you all again.

Good Afternnon Folks!

Hope this works - uploaded some pictures to a newly created website -

http://www.freewebs.com/acrsaved/IMG_0197%20(2).JPG

http://www.freewebs.com/acrsaved/IMG_0192%20(2).JPG

This is the Remington Sendero SF II in 7mm Rem Mag I got last week with a Harris 6-9 bipod and a Burris 4-16x50 Black Diamond Scope. The lady is my better half and the source of much grace.

I want to thank all those who recommended the Tikka. I bought a T3 Lite Stainless for her today in 243 Win. We're looking forward to taking some yotes and deer together this summer and winter.

If the links do not work - sorry - first time.

Peace

I want to thank all those who recommended the Tikka. I bought a T3 Lite Stainless for her today in 243 Win.

Shoulda bought the savage

I would take the sako 75 over the savage any day of the week. If I want to shoot a 2x4 I can get that at the lumber yard. Come on 12 strings they make some of the ugliest guns I've seen. It is'nt all about just how well they shoot if it's that ugly I don't what to shoot it anyway. Savage does'nt hold a candle to sako's workmanship. What they have going for them is price and they shoot good after that they have nothing. Just my 2 cents on it.

Hoeram :D

What they have going for them is price and they shoot good
What else is there!?!?!?
all joking aside, have you looked at their classic series, they look pretty much like the Remington CDL's

Plus they are so cheap, you can pretty up real nice and not worry about throwing away expensive parts

I'm a 700 remington fan, along with sako 75's and marlin. I can't see me ever buying a savage. I looked at several and I thought I was holding a 4x4 post with a pipe mounted on it. Sorry I can't see it. And how accurate does a hunting rifle really need to be, if it shoots 1 moa or less I believe that will down Mr. Elk or Mr. Whitetail at any range within reason 400 YDS. and closer. I own a dozen 700's and I don't have any that will not shoot MOA to 1/2 MOA. If I do my part. My sako 75 in 300 RUM shoots MOA at a 100 and it's pleasing to the eye.

Hoeram :D

I'm a 700 remington fan, along with sako 75's and marlin. I can't see me ever buying a savage. I looked at several and I thought I was holding a 4x4 post with a pipe mounted on it. Sorry I can't see it. And how accurate does a hunting rifle really need to be, if it shoots 1 moa or less I believe that will down Mr. Elk or Mr. Whitetail at any range within reason 400 YDS. and closer. I own a dozen 700's and I don't have any that will not shoot MOA to 1/2 MOA. If I do my part. My sako 75 in 300 RUM shoots MOA at a 100 and it's pleasing to the eye.

Hoeram :D


I know everyone has their favorite, and some consider some guns ugly, but I don't think you have seen these...

http://www.savagearms.com/12VarminterSS.htm

http://www.savagearms.com/14AmerClassic.htm

To turn a phrase: Beauty is as beauty shoots. The rifle could be overlaid in gold, but if it doesn't group well, it's getting sold!!

Your "eye pleasing" rifles shoot well, that's good. However, I'll take ugly, inexpensive, but accurate.

The older I get, the more utilitarian I get. I've had a Tikka, a couple of Savages, Remingtons, Winchesters, etc., and now have a CZ 550.

I'm now wishing I had my old ugly Savage back. :( It was before the Accutrigger, but boy did it shoot consistently small groups.

It is to bad that you would not consider the Howa. They make the Weatherby Vanguard, and others. I have had my 1500 for about 10 years+, it is the most accurate rifle I have ever shot! It has been rained on, snowed on, exposed to major heat and humidity, sub zero freeze, and has never failed, or deviated from zero! As another member has said! ;) You should also look at Savage. I have a 110 in 7mm mag, pre- accutrigger. It is a great rifle! I bought the Sierra for its light weight and great accuracy. I have not been disappointed! If it is in the scope, it is in the freezer! Both of these rifles enhance the skills I have. They are a great match to my shooting style. I also like the fact that they are both Modified Mauser actions. Both have very good triggers, and neither will break the bank. As far as Savage rifles feeling like a 4x4 w/ a pipe, that is how I feel about the 700, not to mention the trigger feels like it is sand coated! You would have to upgrade the trigger and extracter to match the Howa. Both actions are smoother than the 700. Oh well to each his own. JP

As you guys say to each his own my 700's and sako's are my pleasure so I 'll keep with them. If you like others great thats why we have different makes to suit the likes of us all. In short shoot what you like and enjoy, these are only my thoughts and How I feel. But It sure makes for some interesting talk.

Hoeram :D

I have a couple of Sakos and am very happy with them. I think of Tikka as simply a no frills Sako, good for the dollar. I've never thought of Weatherby as being all that accurate. Remington has become a sore spot with me in the past couple of years. Too many bean counters and too much obsessin with the bottom line. My older Remingtons from the '70s and '80s are excellent without a doubt, but I've lost confidence with them. I'd rather spend the extra money for the Sako. Just one mans opinion. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

I think 99% of the rifles we argue about are just as accurate as the next one. I have had them all at one time or another.Most can be tweeked very easily.
There is so much more to a rifle than accuracy. Besides accuracy, overall importance is handling.
Where I am from, It is hard to get a Savage over the counter unless you are looking for the cheapest thing they have. Maybe that's the problem, they've got that market pretty well established.
I much rather have a good crisp 3# trigger than the "accu trigger" gadget. And the bolt on some of the Savages is as big as my gear shift knob. What's with that.
My last Remington was a classic in 243 Win. Great rifle. Since then I have been let down by their quality so let them sink.
My last Browning had the "Boss" It totally messed up the handling of the rifle in my opinion.
I am now very impressed with the Tikkas, Weatherbys,(Vanguard and Mark V) Kimbers and still the Sakos.

And lastly, a moment of silence for the Model 70's. It was a very good rifle.

Another thing, I have not had good luck with manufacturers standing behind their products when it comes to rifle accuracy

Have a good evening!

Afternoon Folks -

The 7mm Rem. Mag. Remington Sendero SF II was a real pleasure to shoot! I finally got to go down to range today. I used a Site Lite to pre-align the scope and then sighted it in at the range. The Sendero put in a .475" group at 100 yards (5 shots) using a 70gr Sierra SPBT Game king and 70gr of Retumbo. Tried IMR 4831, IMR 4350, and RL-22 (the worst of the lot). 4350 was second best. I was not using a rifle rest, just the bi-pod and my shoulder. With a 100gr Hornady HP, the best performer was IMR 4350 at 64 grains (.65" group). The action was a little stiff and the trigger was medium in pull. We also sighted in my wife's Tikka T3 243 Win. Wow - what a difference. The action was very smooth and the trigger pull was far less robust then the Remington. Too light for me, but perfect for my wife. She put in a .575" group with 47gr of H414 and a 55gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. Second best was Varget and third best H380. All less then 0.75" with bi-pod and shoulder. The kick on the Sendero was not too bad, but glad I did not get a lighter rifle though.

Many of you asked for this info, so I thought I would post it. Very pleased with the Sendero, and my wife is most pleased with her Tikka T3 light stainless (I am too!).

Blessings.

Alec

This is merely one mans opinion. My 7mm Rem. Mag. is a Remington 700BDL from the '80s and is terrific, very accurate.
Today I'm afraid to buy a Remington. Some are good, some are Gawd awful. My last one, a 700BDL in .25-06 is the worse piece of crap I've ever owned. Remington has made too many cost cutting moves and it shows. I'd go with a Sako. It might be a tad more costly, but in the long run will probably cost you less, and it's certainly a well made rifle. I've been quite happy with mine. Most of my accurate rifles are Remingtons BUT they are from the '70s and '80s. Simply put, I feel Sako gives a **** and Remingtoin doesn't. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Hi Cal -

I was sold on the Sako and wanted to get one. I was all set to get the Model 75 but once I found a shop that had the 'partnership' needed to retail Baretta/Sako/Tikka arms I learned that 1) they were not offering the Model 75 anymore, 2), they did not sell the 85 I wanted in the 7mm mag, and 3) the earliest I could hope to get one in any chambering available was late July. So I went with my #2 choice the Rem Sendero. I am actually very pleased with it's performance so far. However, the action is not refined, I must say that. I was not pleased with its lack of smoothness even before I got the Tikka and now compared to that I think it is abyssmal. The action aside, I am very pleased. Trigger pull is heavier than the Tikka too. I spent some time shooting the Rem and then when I fired my first shot on the Tikka it surprised me. My personal preference would be the slightly heavier trigger pull on the Rem. The Tikka is adjustable, and my wife is very pleased with its pull so that will stay as is.

I am a handgunner/shotgun toter who is just moving into the centerfire world. i.e., I am just now trying to hit a target more than 50 yards away. I found that I placed tighter groups at 100 yards than at 50 yards. I am guessing that at 100 yards there is less of the bullseye visible to center the reticle within. Maybe this is just me and maybe this should be another thread, but does this happen with you or anyone else?I just could not figure it out - equating what the 100 groups would be at 50 yards with the ones at 50 yards, the 100 yard targets had consistantly better groups.

Oh, and as happy as I was with my handload groups, the Federal 160gr Nosler Partition ammo was simply incredible. 4 rounds punched out four corners of a single .5" hole with an outlier streching the group to .75" at 100 yards.

Best,

Brownells sells lapping compound, which when placed in some strategic places should smooth things up. Instructions for adjusting the trigger can be found here: http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=19761

Sako/Tikka, Weatherby Lt Wt, Rem 700, Savage. I have always received excellent service from Remington. My Sakos are tack drivers, (300win mag & 7 mag.), but the ctgs have an excellent rep. as well. The new Wbys look good...Pick the one that fits and feels good for you and go with it. I prefer 13.5" length of pull.
I have several brands of glass, and top on the list is Night Force(expensive but worth it to me), Swarovsky 1.5x5 PH, (used & 1/2 the money), Luepold VXII/VXIII, both reasonable and excellent quality. I really like my 3x10 Conquest on the Sako and mid priced. The rest are Pentax and the quality is great. Clear and bright for a mid price. Burris (high end) uses Pentax glass. I prefer 1" tubes and 40mm objective lens. Burris has a lighted reticle available and could make a difference on those late shots on varmints and deer.
I have way too many rifles(is that really possible?) and the concept of one to do it all is proven over time, but long lost on me.

Actually, I meant overrated, but typed overpriced on the Weatherby statement.
Sorry.

Ths Sako will make you a great rifle!!
You'll love it when you work that silky smooth action.


Here's my Weatherby Accumark in 30-06 topped w/ a Burris Euro Diamond...you won't be disappointed...


I found mine new on the web for $925 shipped...found a deal on a Burris as well...