This is one of the most underestimated calibres really.
In effect the "other 30 cal".
It could be because no there were no popular sporting cartridges design for it but I suspect it has more to do with the American fascination with .308 cal, not that there is anything wrong with that.
Nonetheless the cartridges in this group have taken every sort of game on all continents.
If you have used one or do presently what manner of beastie was/is your longarm?
Which load do you use and what's is your regular game?
On a final note, I am mystified than both Barnes & Nosler do not produce any bullets for this cal. despite the fact it is well up to elk, moose and even brown bear in a pinch.
As such Woodleigh in Australia and GS Custom Bullets in Sth Africa are the only people to make controlled expansion bullets for the .303 Brit, 7.62 Russian and their brothers.
Can anyone comment on this?

My m41 Mosin-Nagant is mostly to look at but it will see use as a deer rifle one of these days. It's just fun to have and shoot.

RJ

I beleive Hawk makes 303 premium bullets. You are right about the 303 size bullets. I would like to see a Barnes X bullet in 125 for the 7.62x29 and a 150 for the 303 British. Some partitions or Bearclaws would also be nice.

Just about always had at least one "fat 30" in the safe. Given a smooth enough barrel, are usually good cast bullet guns; many older lLyman molds drop their "30's) at .312" which often is just about right.

.32-20 would have to fit in the discription I guess. Although mine has been rebarrelled with a .308 barrell. Few people over here havent had something to do with a .303.(around here any way, the middle of Sydney might be a bit different but I've never been there.)

My 1894CL .32-20 uses .312" jacketed bullets (Hornady) and .313" cast (BTB 115g). Good short range for something small like coyotes. I, personally, would not use it for large game.

Dan

I wasn't really speaking of the 32-20 as it's a completely different beast to even the 7.62x39.
It's a little like comparing 38 Special P+ loads to 35 Rem or 35 Whelen.
It's clearly crazy to make 32-20 controlled expansion bullets.
They'd never open.
Out of interest, are 32 Special and 32-40 .316" cal?

Kombi,

.32 Spl. & 32-40 are nominally .321.

I love .303 Brit, and 7.62x54r. The M44 puts on quite the fire show at the range. :D

As such Woodleigh in Australia and GS Custom Bullets in Sth Africa are the only people to make controlled expansion bullets for the .303 Brit, 7.62 Russian and their brothers.



Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by controlled expansion ? Because I know the major manufacturers here in the US make soft-point hunting ammunition in at least a couple of those calibers. Several with engineering on the jackets to help direct and control expansion. Now keep in mind, I'm fairly new to all this, so it might be perfectly obvious to the rest of you, but I'm having a little trouble understanding....

Ken

I used to have a sporterized #1 Mk 3 Enfield which I used to take an elk in Colorado back in the late 70's. I don't remember the load. Shot reasonably well but got to the point where I couldn't see the sights anymore so I traded it off.

I have a sporterized Japanese Arisaka 99 now rechambered to 300 (311?) Savage. Trigger has been worked over real nice and it shoots as well as I can see with a peep sight. I don't see any real need for premium bullets with this one, cup and core would seem to do just fine. I haven't taken any game with it yet, just too many others to take hunting although I do like the way it carries.

I am a Canadian and I have a .303 British, No. 4 MK 1/2. My name is Jack, not Joe.

Canadians will recall a particular dumb beer commercial.

Bye
Jack

7.62x54R is an excellent round, if you don't want to load for it, get the S&B 180gr SP. If you do load, the Sierra 180gr is a good choice. 200gr cast FN also work wonders in this one if you're up for customizing molds and if not, the 160gr Lee lists for the 7.62x39 does quite well if cast soft enough and driven at full potential...(starting to like a pointed cast bullet a little more now)

The 7.62x39 is a good performer too if loaded right with a good bullet choice for autoloaders. In the bolt actions, this little puppy is down right impressive.

Kicker with these are knowing if you've got a gun capable of handling full throttle loads safely. There are of course the mil-surp rifles which may or may not be safe and then you have a variety of single and double guns that need to run at lower pressures than good bolt actions. Autoloaders need to not exceed the gas pressure handling capability of the rifle. If you've got more than one weapon chambered in the same round and you load different pressure levels, you better have a good system of marking every round and not just the boxes. I use a variety of different colored sharpie markers; red on the primer and around the bullet/neck joint mean full power loads, blue are mid range limited use in the autoloaders, green are low pressure and safe for any gun.

My two Rooshian POS's do pretty darn'd good with the Sierra .311 dia. 173 gr Matchking intended for the Brit .303 and the Jap 7.7 chamberings.

Currently sitting on 2 boxes of 7.7Jap loaded by Hornady and an Arisaka that needs shooting. Just needing to find time to get to the range....

jonas

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by controlled expansion ? Because I know the major manufacturers here in the US make soft-point hunting ammunition in at least a couple of those calibers. Several with engineering on the jackets to help direct and control expansion. Now keep in mind, I'm fairly new to all this, so it might be perfectly obvious to the rest of you, but I'm having a little trouble understanding....

Ken
BTW, before I answer Ken's question I should rephrase my statement about makers of controlled expansion bullets in .311/.312 ca.
Woodleigh and GS Custom are the only large companies that produce premium bullets in this cal.
GS Custom are Sth African and well known there and I don't think I need tell anyone about Woodleigh.
I don't doubt the quality of Hawk, they just aren't as well known, at least in my experience.

Now Ken, controlled expansion or premium or bonded core bullets are specifically designed with heavier and stronger jackets, deliberate expansion scores on the inside of the jacket and their lead cores are bonded to the jacket in a number of varied processes depending on the maker that all add up to a bullet that expands to a certain shape under specific impact velocities and muscle and hide densities.
The exceptions are copper only bullets like the Barnes X, XLC and Triple Shock which have no lead but their construction to control the expansion is still similar.
What does that mean?
Well, most premium bullets aim to expand to about double their original diameter and open only as far as half way down the bullet, leaving a shank that will continue to provide enough penetration.
Bonding the core to the jacket helps retain bullet mass and helps with momentum retention and therefore penetration.
All bullet makers in the last 100 years have tried to make their bullets stronger, suitable for specific purposes and more accurate.
For instance, varmint bullets are designed to be frangible; in other words practically detonate on impact.
Bonded core projectiles on the other hand are designed for big, muscular and sometimes dangerous game necessitating a strong bullet which provides a large wound channel and superior penetration.
High velocity magnum cartridges also require stronger bullets that will hold together at high impact velocities.
Blinded with science? :p
I hope that answers some of your questions. ;)

BTW, before I answer Ken's question I should rephrase my statement about makers of controlled expansion bullets in .311/.312 ca.
Woodleigh and GS Custom are the only large companies that produce premium bullets in this cal.
GS Custom are Sth African and well known there and I don't think I need tell anyone about Woodleigh.
... <<snip>>>.....
Blinded with science? :p
I hope that answers some of your questions. ;)



OK, I'm still not sure I understand, because I can go online and look at large US ammo manufacturers (Remington, Winchester, Federal, etc.) and find what they list as premium soft-point hunting ammunition in both 303 British, and 7.62X39MM Russian. On some of them I see "bonded", on others not, and I can also see scoring on the jackets designed to facilitate expansion. Are these not considered controlled expansion?


With a little help, I'll get it all straight in my head eventually :)

Ken

I have a SMLE .303 that takes .311" bullets. It's a good rifle, fairly accurate and fun to shoot even if it does split my cases in half more often than I'd like. I've cut that down a bit by neck sizing though. The .303 is a pretty potent cartridge. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

.303 British
7.62X54R
7.92X57mm

OK, I'm still not sure I understand, because I can go online and look at large US ammo manufacturers (Remington, Winchester, Federal, etc.) and find what they list as premium soft-point hunting ammunition in both 303 British, and 7.62X39MM Russian. On some of them I see "bonded", on others not, and I can also see scoring on the jackets designed to facilitate expansion. Are these not considered controlled expansion?


With a little help, I'll get it all straight in my head eventually :)

Ken
While standard softpoints are designed to expand, they aren't designed to expand under extreme pressures i.e. high velocity, heavy hide, muscle or bone.
A standard soft point will indeed expand......rapidly and sometimes undesirably losing it's core and wounding rather than killing big game.
There are better standard designs than others like the Sierra GameKing, Remington CoreLokt and Speer Hot-Cor but there is plety of debate about how reliable these designs actually are and by and large it is better for those using magnum rifles on big game to use premium bonded core bullets which hold up better at higher velocities.
Mind you, the other danger is using controlled expansion, bonded core bullets on thin skinned medium game as it may not expand properly at all and simply punch through without doing the necessary internal damage.
Unless you see some serious names on that factory ammo like Swift, Barnes, Woodleigh, Speer Grand Slam and Nosler it's unlikely they're true controlled expansion bullets.
Sadly, the .311/.312 cal is a bit of a "always the bridesmaid, never the bride" in terms of advanced bullets design.
Because there have not been any significant .311/.312 cartridges designed purely for sporting it has not been the focus of bullet designers.
The fact that it also was never used by US Forces as a service calibre does not assist it.
In all honesty it's close similarity to .308, the cal of choice for US cartridges for many years, meant many view it as extraneous.
Look at the list of .30 cal rounds:
30-30
30-40
308 Win
30-06
308 Norma Mag
300 WSM
300 Win Mag
300 H&H
300 Wby Mag

With that list of cartridges plus a few more well known wildcats the demand for premium bullets for about 4 non-magnum rounds is pretty low.
Mind you there are plenty for 8mm and they came before the 325 WSM.

Midway has hornaday interlocks in .312

Now here is the question, does the 303 Savage qualify as a .311/312 or a .308. The older ones will slug out at .311 usually, while the ones made in the 30's slug out at .308. Hmmmmmm. Les

Now as a young man, I always liked the looks of the British .303 Jungle Carbine. I thought it was the best looking rifle made and always wanted one for myself.

I did managed to run across one at a hardware store and brought it home, along with a Japanese 7.7 and a Japanese Arisaka type 38.

Now as a young man, I always liked the looks of the British .303 Jungle Carbine. I thought it was the best looking rifle made and always wanted one for myself.

I did managed to run across one at a hardware store and brought it home, along with a Japanese 7.7 and a Japanese Arisaka type 38.
Dunno about the Jungle Carbine but I like the taste in Arisakas.
The 6.5x50R especially is fairly close to the top of my wants so a nice T38 would be very cruisey.
That said, if anyone wishes to donate a nice 7.65x53 Argentine(preferably a M98 action although not compulsorily) to the newest non-profit organisation, Kombi's Gun Collection, it will be accepted with open arms. :p
Now all I need is the room to store them..... :rolleyes:

I cut my deer hunting teeth with a Savage Model 99 in .303 Sav. Great rifle that was very accurate and allowed me to harvest many deer some of which were taken at a range that only common sense and old eyes precludes me from trying today. Good deer killer and I even killed a couple of deer at over 250 honest yards; however most were taken at less than 100 yards. Those were the days!

Good shooting and keep those old rifles. :(

Range Finder

Do you still have your 303 Savage, if so, can you PM me with a slugged bore size, and the serial number with the last two digits xx'd out, I am collecting data on Model 99's for my web site, Model would be great too. Thanks, Les