There have been countless threads and endless debate on 270 v 30-06. The argument between my brother and I usually ends on the versatility of the 06 with the range of powder and bullet weights that it can use efficiently giving it the edge......on paper. I know his 06's won't keep em within 3 in 100 across the range of bullet size which puts a pretty good dent in his argument so I am curious what kind of performance other 06 users are having across the spectrum?

For the purpose of this thread it may be helpful to exclude any mention of the 270. :D

Not many rifles, .30-06 or otherwise, will shoot every bullet available for the caliber equally well. Rifle twist, phase of the moon, and just about anything you can think of will affect it. I have nothing new to offer the debate between these two calibers; suffice it to say the '06 is better just because. :p

Pretty much shoot everything with the 165gr. Partition in my .30-06.

Having said that, noticed that in my particular gun, I can shoot some 125gr. Ballistic Tips right in the same groups, and also the cheap 150gr. Rem ammo does pretty much the same.

The notion that some cartridges will always shoot all bullet weights in the same hole is bunk.... it is just a matter chance with the individual gun.

If I took my critters with a 150 or 160gr. Paritition in the .270, instead, I don't think that they could tell the difference.....

I guess I can cheat. I have a boss system on my Model 70 .30-06. I can adjust it to optimize any bullet weight. That one definetly out-shoots my Model 70 .270 (although the clean classic .270 looks better).

Most of my .30-06s have shot better with 165s or 180s, rather than the 150s (all things being equal).

I think the "tweeners" 165 in .30-06 and 140 in .270 are the best bullet weights respectively.

I have a Model 70, pre-64 in 30-06. I have been very satisfied with the results of the 165 grain Hornady SP. I use IMR 4350, found that works better than the IMR 4064. At 100 yards using 53 grams I can consistently hit in 1.5 inches. At 200, using 56.5 grams I am within 2.5 inches. 180 grain Hornady produce a bit wider margin, but for me an acceptable result. I learned it was a waste of time for me to try the lighter end of the spectrum in regard to bullet wieght, it just is not accurate at the low levels. Overall, it is just fun to test and find out.

I have not seen it mentioned in this thread, but Outdoor Life did a nice article on the 270 in November 2004. Check out page 35, it may help with your discussion with your brother.

Brad

I have 2 rifles in 30-06. The first is a 1903 Springfield (Original model, in original condition, manufactured December of 1912) and the second is a T/C Encore barrel I bought a couple of years ago. Neither will shoot all available bullets well, but both will shoot a surprisingly large number of them well.

The Springfield shoots most surplus and factory ammo better than I can shoot it. I used to handload for it for the savings, but since I rarely shoot it anymore I just bought a case of surplus ammo that it shoots well and figure I'm set for the rest of my shooting. I do keep it's brass separate and I have the load data for when my grandchildren (which I do not have any of yet...) need to load for it... ;)

The Encore doesn't shoot any factory or surplus ammo well. It is a bit picky about it's seating depth. I shot the best group of my life with it ( .155", CTC @ 100yds) while working up some loads. Too bad it wasn't in a match :) I keep a couple of boxes of that load (168gr Sierra MatchKing over 44.0gr of H4895 at 3.355" COAL for my rifle) around at all times and am still trying different combinations. I have found decent loads from 110gr to 210gr bullets, but there are several bullets I have never found a good load for with this rifle.

Just my experience, which I believe is what you were asking for :)

The Encore doesn't shoot any factory or surplus ammo well. It is a bit picky about it's seating depth. I shot the best group of my life with it ( .155", CTC @ 100yds) while working up some loads. Too bad it wasn't in a match :) I keep a couple of boxes of that load (168gr Sierra MatchKing over 44.0gr of H4895 at 3.355" COAL for my rifle) around at all times and am still trying different combinations. I have found decent loads from 110gr to 210gr bullets, but there are several bullets I have never found a good load for with this rifle. Just my experience, which I believe is what you were asking for :)

Encore rifles are picky irregardless of caliber. Headspace, seating depth, fore-end pressure, trigger work, hinge pin fit, lock springs. Don't get me wrong, mine shoots great. But all the above issues had to be addressed before I could get sub MOA accuracy. It isn't that difficult or expensive and the end result is one heck of a versatile platform. But it does take some work.

As for he original question, I have 2 bolt action 30-06s. They both shoot consistent 1.5 inch groups or less with a variety of ammo. With the right reloads, one will shoot a legit 1/2" group, and the other a 3/4" group. I have a .270 as well. IMO, given the same trigger and optics, there is no practical difference in accuracy as far as hunting utility is concerned. If you want a varmit rifle, neither is a real strong choice. And, neither one gets much bench rest time, although the 06 certainly has in its day.

- I...and most of my associattes have had the best accuracy and performance results from the .30/.308Cal-165[8]GRN projectiles...though if I was setting up a 30-06 for any-n-all game available, I would go with the 180's in factory-loads.
...OR, BETTER-YET - Get some set-up with 200GRN-SWIFT-A-Frames. Now - THERE'S an all-purpose heavy-hitter.

The .06 is one of the finest cartridges available today and will be always. Bullets ranging up to 240gr. is the statement in itself. Wonderful history.
I have used this cartridge with confidence for many years killing Caribou, Moose and bears. The .270 round is no doubt a very good cartridge as well-I've owned enough of them at one time but... don't own one anymore not when the .06 is still in the rack.
Won't get into the "paper" shooting debate.sorry.

regards,

Won't get into the "paper" shooting debate, sorry.

I like that. There is no doubt that the 06 is superior to most all non-magnum centerfire rounds on larger game in the field (where paper punching doesn't matter much). The 200 grain Partitions, Accu-bonds, or A-Frames give it an awesome capability.

I use 165 grain Hornady interlock boattails in my '06. At '06 velocities these bullets hold up well. They retain velocity and energy well enough to pass through elk at up to 250 yards. Plus I can put 5 shots in under an inch at 100 yards. PDG for the old Enfield ;)

RJ

The 06 is definitely hard to beat however, the 270 is a great round as well. I would say this in addition to what has been said already. The .308 06 round is the building block for the .270 and expect the .270 does have an advantage or two. The bullets go a bit faster overall and, for shooting out to about 300 yards, you can just adjust a little up or over and your right on with no real issue. The 06 on the other hand simply put is...the only rifle you would ever need if you could only have one. There are more different sizes and varieties of bullet and powder and casings and primers for 06, than for any other cartridge. Would a deer know the difference shot with either and the same type bullet, probably not. On paper, usually to about 300 yards, the lower recoiling .270 prints a tighter group, beyond that the higher BC .308 usually takes the .270 by a little and more as you get longer...at 600 or 1000 the 06 will really eat the .270 lunch.

The 180 grain is the biggest I've seen for .270(90-180 grain range) and 250 grain is the largest I've shot in 06(90-250 grain range). Both shoot well with the right twist in the rifle.

At 100 you are probably going to eat your brothers lunch however, I had a rem 700 bdl in 06 that with a 4.5x10 leupold and barnes x 180 grain, 1:10 twist using 4350, both hodgdon and IMR, would print groups under 1/2 moa when i was willing to take the blow from that light rifle. I have shot coyotes with it at over 500 yards. There again, loading and practive and all are big factors comparing these because they are just very very similar. Good post.

I have tried bullet weights from 125 to 220 in my 06 and I have yet to find a load for anything lighter than 150 grains that it liked enought to shoot under an inch and a half. The 150s shot 1 to 1 1/2 inch with each load I tried. Heavier bullets shot tighter with 180s shooting consistently under 1 inch. It definitely likes the heavier bullets, which is fine by me. Since that is how it worked out, I load primarily 180 grain Sierra Pro Hunters or Nosler Partitions or 220 grain Sierra Pro Hunters.

My '06 receives a steady diet of 150gr. That is the one it likes the best. By that I mean the most accurate / tightest groups (1- 1 1/2" groups). I tried 168gr and could not get it to group well (about 4-5" spreads). The 180s were worst (not much to even call a group). Did not try the 220s. The 150s will harvest just about anything I will be after.

Gents,

My 06 does allright, but I have yet to find that one load that it really likes, generally averaging 1.5" or so, a little better with 150 grainers, a little worse with 180+ stuff. As this gun is used as the universal back up rifle, I expect that's good enough.

Although I confess to a limited ownership sampling of 06's mine would never shoot as straight as its little brothers or cousins (308, 270), but they were always close, and with the range of capabilities that the round affords, it has found its niche, no doubt. I do know some fellows who have rifles that will do better than that, by allot, but mine never would.

It would be tough for me to live with 3", but it really is adequate, once all is said and done.

Best, good shooting.

Steve

270s can be very accurate!

Mine likes the #3040 Hornady SP. This is the 165 gr. plain jane. I have a carbine.

Nice dime, Ray. Is that a one shot group? :D :D ;) Yes a 270 can be very accurate too.

Let's not turn this into a 30-06 vs everything else thread for kdub's sake. :eek:

RJ

Those who can't decide should get .280 Remingtons.

I got .30-06's.

Nice dime, Ray. Is that a one shot group? :D :D ;) Yes a 270 can be very accurate too.

.....

RJ

There are also 3 holes under the dime! - See:

http://www.hunt101.com/img/309784.jpg

Cool :cool:

We have a model 70 Winchester that has a 22 inch barrel and if very accurate with our handloads in the 165 and 200 grain weights.

The one .270 we have also a model 70 is a good shooter with both the 130 grain and 160 grain handloads we use in it during the deer season. I believe they will all toe the mark with the right handload!

Now the shooting of every bullet weight offered across the specturm accurately is something I have not seen happen as yet with our 30-06 or any other I have come in contact with being used by others at the rifle range.

Those who can't decide should get .280 Remingtons.

I got .30-06's.

Now that would put the .270 out of business, since it's basically a little bit better in every way. Now that'll get Ray wound up!

Myself, I have owned three 06s and one .270.