Having cleaned up a few older rifles, and refinished the stock of a Marlin Model 60, I think I have the itch to rehab another rifle.

Here's what I'm thinking I'd like:

1) Inexpensive to buy. So, age doesn't really matter. Sub $250?
2) Bolt action, wood stock
3) Common caliber. I don't handload, so I wouldn't want a rare/hard-to-find cartridge.
4) Small-Medium bore. .243 (smallest), .30 (largest). Maybe a .223 would be ok too.
5) Reliable action/build
6) To serve mainly as plinker, perhaps for the odd deer outting.

Am I unrealistic in what I'm hoping to find? What should I be keeping an eye out for? What should I avoid? I imagine you folks have plenty to suggest!

Thanks

jonas

Savage 110, 114, 112, all can be had for a decent price, even on gunbrokers. Les

You didn't define "rehab". Here's what I'm doing to rehab…

I bought a WWII Mauser 98k with a turned-down bolt, but bad barrel. They go for about $75.
Got a pre-threaded barrel & stock from Midway, ~$125.
Got a machinist at work to make me a barrel vise.
Got an action wrench from Midway, ~$40.
Got a receiver drill fixture, chamber reamer, receiver tap, go-gage from Midway. Figure I can resell them on Ebay when I'm done, so cost is minimal after resale.
Got a chamber reamer wrench from Ebay.

Still need some bluing solutions from Brownells.

Now, I just need some time to get to the rebarreling!

.

Ahh, 'rehab', right...let me define a bit:

Clean the steel/barrel (rust, grime). Not looking to do any serious "rework".
Strip, clean, refinish the stock.

Not looking to make an absolute tack-driver out of it.

Soviet Mosin Nagant rifles and carbines are affordably priced at about $125. around here. Surplus commie ammo is available from amny sources including cheaperthandirt.com

Ballistically, performance is very close to 30-06.

Simply replacing the sights and improving the safety is about all that is needed to make this into a good hunting outfit.
TR

Ahh, 'rehab', right...let me define a bit:

Clean the steel/barrel (rust, grime). Not looking to do any serious "rework".
Strip, clean, refinish the stock.

Not looking to make an absolute tack-driver out of it.

Sounds like a yugo M48 mil-surp might find a new home soon. Mauser action in 8mm. Can be found at gun shows and some gun shops for about $150- $200. Stock is rough but can be sanded down. With some walnut stain and some tru-oil they can come out nice. 8X57 milsurp ammo is cheap now, so plinking is easy on the pocket book.

Sounds like a yugo M48 mil-surp might find a new home soon. Mauser action in 8mm. Can be found at gun shows and some gun shops for about $150- $200. Stock is rough but can be sanded down. With some walnut stain and some tru-oil they can come out nice. 8X57 milsurp ammo is cheap now, so plinking is easy on the pocket book.


Hmmm...sounds interesting. I'll do some research on them. Thanks!

jonas

Jonas, when I first saw your thread, I was thinking the same as density. Yugo Mausers can be had for less than $250 most places and in good mechanical shape. Sounds like it is where you want to be for a starting point and ammo is running about $10 per bandolier of 70 milsurp Turk ammo at least around here.

Jonas, when I first saw your thread, I was thinking the same as density. Yugo Mausers can be had for less than $250 most places and in good mechanical shape. Sounds like it is where you want to be for a starting point and ammo is running about $10 per bandolier of 70 milsurp Turk ammo at least around here.


"$10 per bandolier"...gotta love that! Checking them out now. Century seems to have some Bosnian models available.

As I look at them, I'm wondering about sporterizing. Fairly long barrel/stock, as is. Cutting down a bit might be on the menu as well.

I like the suggestion tho. This is going to be fun to kick around with you guys.

jonas

"$10 per bandolier"...gotta love that! Checking them out now. Century seems to have some Bosnian models available.

As I look at them, I'm wondering about sporterizing. Fairly long barrel/stock, as is. Cutting down a bit might be on the menu as well.

I like the suggestion tho. This is going to be fun to kick around with you guys.

jonas


He's gunna Bubba the stock :confused: Keep the original stock and hardware intact, buy an after market stock to modify. You can find M48's for about $170.00 here in NH, and $65.00 for a new stock. You will be all set.
http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/BrowseEbus/JRSyugo.asp

Check out the 24/47.
http://www.southernohiogun.com/surplusrifles.html

This would give you a very nice rifle when completed for about 200.00 including shipping, and ammo. Good luck, JP

Well, the hope would be to get a rifle that has a stock not worth worrying about. Would allow me to toy with it a bit. Be nice to have a carbine-esque sized gun. Maybe not...depends on the work needed. But a nice, smaller brush gun would be kinda handy. And for sub-$300, its not that bad a hit.

I kinda like the idea of something like this:
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=29766

Tho, I might change the finish. That'd be a handy piece to have.

jonas

Well, the hope would be to get a rifle that has a stock not worth worrying about. Would allow me to toy with it a bit. Be nice to have a carbine-esque sized gun. Maybe not...depends on the work needed. But a nice, smaller brush gun would be kinda handy. And for sub-$300, its not that bad a hit.

I kinda like the idea of something like this:
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=29766

Tho, I might change the finish. That'd be a handy piece to have.

jonas

Jonas, you can make a great brush gun out of the 24/47. The Boyds stock will have a much better finish, feel, and balance. If you did decide to sell it, it is worth more in original configuration. The scout scope mount is also removable, you can put the rear sight back on at any time. You can modify the intire rifle, without perminently altering it. The scout mount and handgun scope will be the most expencive part of the deal. If you want a fun gun, look for an FR8, it is a large ring Mauser in .308. Be careful, the FR7 is a small ring Mauser, it can only handle 7.62x51 nato ammo, the FR8 will handle both .308, and 7.62x51. You can find one for about $250.00. Very nice, lots of fun! Surplus 7.62x51 is still pretty cheap. http://www.surplusrifle.com/spanishfr8/index.asp

Uh...interesting suggestions Jim.

I like the idea of .308 = ammo diversity.

The shops around here don't carry much in the way of surplus. But my favorite shop can get their hands on just about anything.

Hmmmm, more to think about.

jonas

Heck, you can get a brand new Stevens 200 for under 300, then you can get a good wood stock for it, throw the tupperware away. Les

Jonas, you can get it on line!
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/copy_of__308.html

8mm is real cheap to shoot. Surplus is about 7 to 8 cents a round. I can load you up hunting ammo for both. Just being neighborly! :D
If we get together, you can try an 8mm Yugo, and an FR8, plus an Enfield, Mosin Nagant, Swede's. You may be happier with the hands on approach.

Awww, thats gunna make it hard to badmouth NH folks now :D

When I get my act together and head south, I'd definitly enjoy trying all those!

Appreciate the offer...I will take you up on it!

Not much is cheaper than a surplus Turk, and you can bet they pretty much ALL need some rehabbing... LOL

They are pretty solid guns, and shoot if you can find one with a decent bore.

Good luck.

Thanks Mike.

Too bad there isn't more old surplus kicking around up my way. Guess I'll have to check out the gun-buying laws in NH when I head down to see Jim!

I've mentioned them before, but I do have a Sprinfield 1898 Krag thats already been chopped a bit, and an Arisaka that been cut down a tad. Both given to me by my grandfather, so don't want to mess with them (someone-him?-already did!).

Anwyho, keep the suggestions coming, this is good stuff.

Thanks

jonas

A 303 SMLE Jungle Carbine might be what you want. Im not sure what they are going for but there were some remodel #4 s going for a good price. You can also shorten your own #4 which makes a great carbine.

Sir,

You might also consider the Swede. Buddy of mine picked up a 96 for not much, and its quite honest in the accuracy department, in fact sub moa with loads that it likes.

I tell him that a fellow of his stature shouldn't be seen with such a substandard piece, and offered to take it off his hands.......nice of me, isn't it?

best,

Steve

Steve:

Thanks for the idea, checking them out now. I do believe your 'sir' is wasted on me, but I do appreciate the graciousness :D

Now that these suggestions are rolling in, I'm thinking maybe something in .308 is what I want. I know the surplus 8mm ammo is out there on the cheap, but I do like the idea of off-the-shelf availability/choice. No telling what a rifle might like for ammo. Having choices (not being a reloader) gives me flexibility (velocity, bullet weight, style, etc...)

Or, now that I think more about it, something smaller in the 6mm range (like the Swede). If I were to make a scout/guide-sized gun out of it, I might be better off with a smaller caliber. Not sure what's out there, however.

Just found this as an interesting reference:
http://survival.com/IVB/index.php?showtopic=231

But, still very open to continued suggestions. Thanks a bunch for what you've given me so far!

jonas

Well, some progress has been made...

Had forgoten all about a guy not from from here that deals in antiques and some surplus. Lo and behold, he just picked up a nice Spanish Mauser in .308, and has a Swede in 6.5SE.

Says the Spanish runs @ $300 and the Swede at $200. So, not super cheap, but worth looking at. And he was a step ahead of me in suggesting the .308 as a more versitile choice than 8mm. Has a 'unique' little barn next to his house he deals from. Nice guy, very knowledgeable. I'll head up there soon and take a look at what he has. Also offered to broker an interent deal if I found something I liked online.

So, I do have a local source, which certainly helps.

I'll keep you posted.

jonas

Have you checked out:

http://www.surplusrifle.com/maintenance.asp

Just chose which rifle you want info on from the left listing and click. They have breakdowns and articles on how to do modifactions to the rifles so you can make it into just about anything you want. Good source for parts too.

Have you checked out:

http://www.surplusrifle.com/maintenance.asp

Just chose which rifle you want info on from the left listing and click. They have breakdowns and articles on how to do modifactions to the rifles so you can make it into just about anything you want. Good source for parts too.

Yup, found that site, but hadn't noticed all the tutorials. Nice find, thanks!

jonas

Jonas, The spanish Mauser is most likely a Small Ring Mauser, 7.62x51 only, it can't handle the pressure of the .308. If it is an FR8, you would be all set. The price of $300.00 is high for a small ring, and about average for an FR8. Now a Swedish M96 or M38 for $200.00 is a good deal, if it is in nice condition. The 6.5x55 round will drop anything in Vermont woods. Let me know what you find out. JP

http://www.surplusrifle.com/1916guardiacivil/specifications.asp

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=6517008

http://www.surplusrifle.com/mauserswedishm38/index.asp

Yeah Jim, the more I think about it, the more the 6.5 makes sense. If'n I do indeed cut it down, a lighter caliber would make for easier handling.

Just means I'll have to find another reason to buy a .308 at some point. :D

Now, here's another question: If I do end up with a 6.5, how much barrel could come off before I really start short changing the ballistics?

Thanks

jonas

The M38 is a carbine, it is very accurate, sights are good. Again, I would buy an after market stock, The rifle in its original configuration is worth more than a sporterized version. Think of it as an investment to have fun with. Keep the original stock, and hardware.

Check out the stock 2nd to last. $118.00 is a good price for a finished Walnut stock. http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/BrowseEbus/JRSmauser.asp

These are very nice also, You would need the Sm Rg for the Swede, it is a Small Ring Mauser. http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/BrowseEbus/WarnerVmauser.asp

You would have a very pretty rifle when completed.

Nice choices, Jim.

I like the Varmint version. Yeah, I know it nick's the value to cut it down. I think I'd like something with an 18"-20" barrel.

Hmmmm....

I picked up my Yugo M48 for $84 ot the door (including back ground check) $15 for a new extractor claw, and a bought $10 for cleaning supplys (carb cleaner and a gallon of mineral spirits to remove the 3 or 4 gallons of COSMOLINE, Formbys Toulng oil, sand paper) and it's a GREAT shooter!, I picked up my TURKY ammo for $7 a bandolire, it shoots great, and if you want some "hunting" ammo there's always Remington at Wally world.
I also picked up a 1939 K98 for $209 out the door, this is my "PROJECT" gun, it's getting the new barrel, stock and scope, I plan on a "finised" gun for $500, we'll see?

Why does "rehab" a rifle automaticly mean a milsurp to some people? Project rifles are where you find them! I've found rifles in pawnshops, gunshops, private sales, and gunshows. I picked up a nice late 1950s production Savage 99 in .243 for $185 out the door in a pawnshop. Buttstock was loose. Picked up a rebarreled Czech Mauser in .30/06 that was somebody's project gun, for $85. Stock alone was worth more than that. Action wouldn't cock. Front action screw was way overtorqued, and flexed it enough for the cocking piece to not hold on the scear. Simple fix. Bought another 1950s sporterized 1903 Springfield, $80. Idiot had electropenciled a SS# on the action ring. Wasn't deep, was able to remove most of it and refinsh. Also have a 1950s vintage M1917, complete with a Weaver 300 scope and mount. $90 out the door.

Just have to look, and ask. There are always bargains out there, you need to look for them!

Well, Charley...you make a good point. At the outset, I hadn't even considered a surplus. And in fact, if the right old non-surplus came along, I'd be fine with that too. As long as it fit's my general parameters, I'm not usre I care one way or another.

I guess I just need somthing with a good, solid barrel/action. The stock is bound to be modified.

Thanks for the reminder Charley, I don't want to limit my search.

jonas

Have found some surplus rifles, once you get the gunk off them, that had truely cross-you-legs-gorgous wood...but most don't. Is always worth a look, but pretty grain is not what they military specs. call for.

Put a big metal butt plate for bashing things on one end...hang a knife on the other for stabbing things...and stress the middle with recoil each shot, and a pretty straight grained piece of wood is the best choice. Kind of like picking out suport timbers when framing out a house, want the strongest wood, not the prettiest.

Have read that the Russians rejected some Remington made rifles becasue the wood was "wrong"...in this case, the grain wasn't straight enough (although it was proably just b-busting on the Russian's part).

The realiabilty of the surplus' over time is what is attractive to me. They've generally been build to last, and thru all sorts of crap, almost regardless of care. Thus, I'd be slightly less concerned about a $150-200 mil-spec rifle. Perhaps unfounded rationalization....

As Pisgah's post is entitled, "Old Ugly" is just fine with me. Not hoping to win any beauty contests.

Who knows, perhaps this is a multi-rifle project :D

jonas

The realiabilty of the surplus' over time is what is attractive to me. They've generally been build to last, and thru all sorts of crap, almost regardless of care. Thus, I'd be slightly less concerned about a $150-200 mil-spec rifle. Perhaps unfounded rationalization....

As Pisgah's post is entitled, "Old Ugly" is just fine with me. Not hoping to win any beauty contests.

Who knows, perhaps this is a multi-rifle project :D

jonas

Bought a Spanish .308 sitting on a used gun as a cast bullet gun...has a great bore and the stock turned out to be one of the very pretty figured one. Have read the reposts of the M93's strength...am doubtful it would come apart, but my case bullet loads never get near 30K pressure and my jacketed reloads are .300Savage level, so I live happy.

Intention was to chop it up into a more sproting look and mount a scope...but I've had so much fun with it as-is and the stock is just too pretty to hack on.

Im sure there are some nice looking stocks to be had. That's why I'm thinking I might 'need' to do this more than once. But given the brush and vines, and tall grasses we hunt thru, a sporterized 6.5 (or still maybe a .308) seems ideal.

Too many choices, not enough time or money!!

Jonas,

Sometimes being OUTSIDE the local gunshows can be a really great place to get a project gun as well. I've got this strange hang-up when it comes to Springfield rifles, and picked one up at a recent gunshow for $50! A fellow was headed into the gunshow from the parking lot as I was headed out for lunch with some friends, I asked him what he was doing with the Springfield, and he replied he was looking for someone to buy it. We quickly negotiated a price and I went home with an 03A3 that had Redfield receiver sights, a cut down c series stock, military sling and barrel band front sight. It is a typical 1950's "homemade sporter", but shoots like a house afire. A little work on the stock, some tongue oil and a little tlc to the blue job and it's a wonderful shooter, and has wood to make many custom guns envious.

Keep an eye out, there's a bargain out there with your name on it... you just need to be in the right place at the right time.

God bless,

Hey Marshall:

Good to see you posting again :D

Yup, need to start scouring the local papers, and chatting with more folks. We don't get much in the way of gunshows up here. But with all the options people keep posting, this seems like it could be come something of a sub-hobby. Thus, sources need be varied.

Thanks for the tip,

jonas

So, doing more research, looks like I wouldn't want to reduce the barrel to anything under 20". Initially I had thought maybe 18 pr 19". It's not a hot round (6.5x55 = ~2500 - 2600 fps), so not too much is lost by reducing the barrel a tad.

Any thoughts on that?

Thanks


jonas

Well Jonas, if you are set on cutting back to 20" a Turk Mauser may be the answer. The Swede M38 barrel is only 23.1". You would spend more time and money to shorten it with little, with no, if any benefit. One word of caution, the 8mm Turk will create quite the muzzle flash cut down to 20". An M48 is 23.25", the best bet in my opinion would be, again to leave the barrel alone, the expense of cutting, re-crowning, and having a new front sight installed would out weigh the benefit. 3" is not much. If you call Samco Global, they are running a deal on VZ24 Mausers I have heard. $99.00 or so, people are raving about how great the condition of the rifles. They are not advertised!

http://www.samcoglobal.com/rifles.html

Jim:

What I would gain is a smaller rifle. My Tikka T3 doesn't even have a 23" barrel! 23" would sort of defeat the goal. And with a 6.5x55, the length reduction wouldn't be such that it would affect the ballistics too much, per my reading.

I'm not really worried about condition, as long as the action/barrel aren't mangled and can still shoot. Most likely would refinish the stock, so not looking for any 'collectiblity'.

Form follows function.

jonas

Jonas, got the one you need that globe 888 I was talking about in anothjer thread . It'll fit your criteria 200.00 shipped will get it to your door.

Jim:

Yeah, sounds about right. But kinda takes the fun out of having a 'project gun'. I appreciate the offer, tho :D

Maybe the next one will be a .308...

jonas

Jpatterson! What do you mean about the pressure difference between 7.62X51 and .308? They are almost identical! I shoot 7.62 in my .308s all the time. My Sako fullstock carbine, 700, 600 carbine, and 91 HK style all shoot both interchangeably and sometimes even mixed in the magazine. The milsurp delinked ammo might even be considerably hotter than commercial ammo. Do you mean 7.62 X 39 or what? I'm not trying to be a troll but incorrect information can be somewhat problematic or even deadly depending on the details. Good shooting and God Bless. Bandito

Jpatterson! What do you mean about the pressure difference between 7.62X51 and .308? They are almost identical! I shoot 7.62 in my .308s all the time. My Sako fullstock carbine, 700, 600 carbine, and 91 HK style all shoot both interchangeably and sometimes even mixed in the magazine. The milsurp delinked ammo might even be considerably hotter than commercial ammo. Do you mean 7.62 X 39 or what? I'm not trying to be a troll but incorrect information can be somewhat problematic or even deadly depending on the details. Good shooting and God Bless. Bandito

Bandito, you can shoot 7.62x51 in a .308 chambered rifle, but not vice versa. .308 runs at much higher pressures. The new managed recoil rounds bring the pressure down quite a bit, but standard .308 creates allot more pressure.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2006/308vs762nato/index.asp