My son is 12 and has a slight build. I have brought him through the air rifle and 22 phase. My next step is 223. Beyond that I will be looking for a deer rifle for him to use once he hits 14. We have some time to shop so I want to get the right gun that he will enjoy. My preference is the Remington 700 or Winchester model 70, possibly pre 64 or classic design. While initially I was focused on a 270 a friend suggested a 280/7mm. That got me thinking again. My goal is to find a caliber that is versitle which I believe both are, with a minimal kick. We will be loading our own ammunition so I can adjust the kick that way. I just want to minimize the probability that he will develop a flinch while also lowering the possibility of losing a deer after a good shot. During hunting our longest shot will be 100 yards.

Here is my question for the forum. I would appreciate your advice. Which caliber would you suggest, 270 or 280/7mm. I notice in the reloading guides that the 280/7mm takes slightly less load on a 150 grain bullet than the 270. That leads to my second question, which loads/bullets have you found the best experience with for Deer in these calibers. I typically load with Hornady, spire points in my 30-06 at 165. Would the Hornady line be adequate for the 270/280/7MM and at what grain bullet? Or is there a better, more accurate, deadlier bullet that is recommended.

Thanks for your help.

Brad
Hebrews 10:39

Have you thought about a .243Win or a .260Rem. I have never shot a .260Rem but my wife's deer/piggy gun is a .243 and it is nice. For pigs she uses nosler partition bullets, for deer she uses a variety. We haven't narrowed it down yet and we don't reload yet either. But I think if you go this route you might be able to bypass the .223 stage, unless of course you are just wanting to do it ;)

280 is a fine caliber- and so is the 270. I doubt you could tell any recoil difference between them with typical bullet weights.
Most any 140 grain bullet for the 280 is designed as a deer bullet and will work fine, just as 270/130's are designed for deer.
Both cartidges are plenty for any deer walking the US. If the eventual plan is to hunt something bigger, the 280 might be slightly (very slightly) preferable.
An alternative suggestion might be the 7x57, a classic and very efficient caliber. Since you handload, I'd recommend it. If you didn't handload, I'd say the 7-08. Both of those will recoil a hair less than 270/280, although it's not enough difference to worry about.

Either would be great, but you said he is of slight build which leads me to suggest maybee looking at a short action. Along the lines that one might fit him better. .308 would be a great choice as the loads for this are numerous. There are other that would make fine choices, but If I was looking for a short action and i was a handloader the .308 would be very appealing to me. Hey you could use some of the same components (bullets) you might use to load for your 30-06, saving money always helps.

I'll put in a plug for my favorite, the 257 Roberts.

Id suggest 7x57 Mauser or .257 Roberts. Easy shooting, light recoiling, lots of bullets to choose from. You don't stick around for over 100 years or 75 years if you cant get the job done.

Both the 270 Win and 280 Rem are outstanding rounds. The 280 to my knowledge is only available in the Remington M700 Mountain rifle. It is lightweight so my guess it'll have some kick to it for a slight of build 14 year old. The 270 can be had in just about any make or model of rifle. It's been around a long time for a reason: it works. There's no deer on the planet the 270 can't handle with authority with a well placed shot. One advantage I'd like to point out is there is now low recoil ammo by Remington and Federal for the 270. He can use that and grow into it with the full power stuff as he gets older. If you are set on a 7mm, the 7mm-08 may be a good option as well.

Since you handload, the Remington M700 youth model would be my choice. It can be loaded down to learn with and used with 30-30 bullets at the right velocity for deer loads. Theres also a youth model 7. Just my .02, the 308 is very versitle.

- I have been involved with the selection process, operation, and after-action/in-review of my share of youth shooters. It is one of the most rewarding experiences I have been invited to participate-in...that I can recall-on at this moment. Since you have brought-him through the air-to-rimfire phase, then I won't bore you with my experiences regarding that issue...However, this is what I have experienced and learned in regards to the introduction and operation towards the centerfire-issue.

- I have had the most pleasure-reciprocated and success from Youth-Scale Bolt-Rifles. Prior to the Big-3 getting on-board with the Youth-Gun-Concept...this was a difficult step due to improperly-fitted-stocks and unwielding-barrels, on long-action-rifles. The first centerfire-caliber should be based on what the youth will be hunting, and how the young-man will be logistically supported in regards to ammo availabilty and re-supply.

The most-successful set-ups have looked like-this:

- Short-action calibers - .223REm/.243Win/7MM-08Rem.
- LOP 11.5-12.5"
- Barrel - 18-20"...I prefer 20"
- Fixed-Power-4X-Scope with a Standard-or-Heavy Duplex-Reticle.
- Two-Point adjustable-sling...
...[With the rear-swivel and stud mounted in the bottom of the grip-cap rather than at the rear of the butt-stock].

- The .223Rem is a charmer to work-with, and it makes an affordable-option if the game is going to be in the Coyote/Varmint-Range and-under...[like most of the kids I am exposed to]. The .243Win is a great-round due to it's versatilty and availabilty....and the 7MM-08Rem is an OUTSTANDING-OPTION for "those-in-the-know"...and I don't-rec the .308Win unless you plan to down-load the charge....or run-him-with the Managed-Recoil-Rounds. It has been my experience that smaller-statured-shooters should have a sound-centerfire experience before shooting a full-house .308 in a rifle under 8LBS...such as a Youth-Scale-Gun.

Very interesting stuff here. I am deadly with a 16 Gage Win. model 97 shotgun, but have a hard time hitting anything with dad's 20" barreled .22 Marlin Golden Mountie. It seems to hit Low and left for me. (I shoot right handed...maybe some of you could give me some pointers.) I have been thinking about stepping up to a centerfire for longer range feral animal and varmint hunting. I like levers so I was thinking a 30-30, but dad says to get a 308 since ammo is plentiful and cheap, but it sounds like a 223 or 243 would do what I want. Decisions, Decisions, Decisions...

Brad S. I would not suggest either to you OK! Now at 12 years old I have seen several kids shoot the .270 with both 130 and 150 factory loads.......It is NO piece of cake, developing around 17 to 20 pounds of recoil to the young shooters shoulder, especially sitting at the bench.

I understand that you reload, so I will give you a very light load for him to shoot, if your mind is already made up OK. Hornady 130 grain bullet......44. grains of 4064 powder, velocity is 2,650fps and recoil is just 12.5 pounds of felt recoil. It kills deer dead!!!.....The 257-Roberts and the 25-06 are better suited for young shooters ready to hunt deer come the season. Recoil is light with both these calibers.

I have a friend who last season started his 13 year old boy off with a new .270 from Wally Mart. The boy had shoot the BB gun and .22LR and 410 shogun OK in the past. However, after shooting just 3 rounds of 130 grain factory from the bench, (it hurt him) and he never said anything to his father. Since that time he can not hit the barn door shooting his fathers .270. I watched him close his eyes soon as he pulled the trigger.

He has developed a flinch, which is a tuff nut to crack in a young shooter......it's back to the .22LR and one needs to get a recoil pad for the shooter etc. Some kids just opt NOT to go through the pain and develope dislike period. Now because your son may have a build makes NO DIFFERENCE understand. I will tell you to get something that does not have over 12 pounds of recoil and let it be a lot of fun for him. The .270 Winchester will work but only if you download it to suit his age and size. ;)

I have a 270 and a 243 and if i were going to loan one to a kid with a slight build, it would be the 243. It is plenty for killing whitetails, in fact most of my family hunts with 243s and they have accounted for a pile of deer. I don't know of one we have had get away that was hit moderately well. Dad hit one in the leg somehow one time and it bled like a stuck pig for a while, laid down, the bleeding stopped and the deer got away. Other than that, they have been pretty much one shot kills

Welcome to the forum BradS.

Been thru the same thing with my granddaughters whom will be 12 and 13 this month. In the safe sits a Ruger 243 #1 B, a Remington Model 7 youth in 308 and a Rem 700 mountian rifle in 280. Guess which gives the most felt recoil? The 308. The 280 is more pleasent to shoot, but both girls like shooting the 243 and it's plenty for deer out to a couple of hundred yards. I've not downloaded either the 308 or the 280 simply because the girls like the 243 so much.

Well that's my two cents worth.

I'll agree with the youth models, either the Browning Micro Hunter or Rem Model 7. My brother bought the Browning in 308 and it does kick a little since it only weighs 6-7 lbs. If I were to get one for a youngster, I'd probably go with the 7-08 or 243.

I'd stick with the full length calibers myself. The .280 is slightly superior on larger game; the .270 has more models and great ammo availability. Take your pick.

Thanks for the advice. After the posts started building up, I let my son read all of them. Like I said, we have two years to ponder as well as find the best fit. I appreciate the perspectives presented. I figured others had been through this before, no sense in trying to recreate the wheel.

Thanks again for the help, it will be put to good use

Brad
Hebrews 10:39 :D