Hi thinking of purchasing that ultralight Charter Arms 38 Off Duty. Charter Arms states that this firearm is rated for the occasional use of +P ammunition. I like this little pistol for two reasons the weight and the fact that I can equip it with a laser for a reasonable amount. Make that three the price the price I feel is also decent. So what would you guys recommend for a concealed carry load want to get the most punch I can I would only use the +P stuff for defensive purposes and use regular ammo for target practice. By the way what would you recommend for practice ammo as well want it cheep but accurate. Thanks

Cj

Winchester white box or remington yellow box for practice, if not using handloaded cast. Remington golden saber for carry.
This is just personnal opinion. others will have their prefferences.

Lee L.

I would select the ammo that you have the most confidence in. The difference between .38 special and +p is not that great. Both are up to the task of self defence. The goal is to "stop". Not to find out how hard you can stop an agressive act.
If you and your gun shoot whatever load well, and you feel that it would stop you from agression. You are done looking.

A basic .38 special with a round nose bullet served police for years with good effect on the bad guys. It's the hits that count.
Cheezywan

Buffalo Bore has a 38 SWCGC load that looks good. Cast soft to expand. I would check with them first to see if its ok in a lightweight frame. The CorBon 110 grain load is also good.

Say what do you think about that Mag Safe stuff??

Tcj

I use a 3 inch barrled M64 S&W loaded with Magsafes for a house gun. You may need more penetration in street load.

PMC Starfire and the Gold-dot come to mind. I'd also look at Ranger SXT and see if it is loaded in .38+P.

I use a 3 inch barrled M64 S&W loaded with Magsafes for a house gun. You may need more penetration in street load.

Say which load are we talking about? think they make several, and how much penetration are we talking about for your house load, and why wouldn't it be suitable for concealed carry for the street. Thanks

tcj

Buffalo Bore has a 38 SWCGC load that looks good. Cast soft to expand. I would check with them first to see if its ok in a lightweight frame. The CorBon 110 grain load is also good.

I really like Corbon stuff really think the 110grain would be sufficient to stop a bad guy, how many foot pounds? My main carry will probably be my Stealth 9mm but at 12 ounces there would just be no reason to leave the little Bull Dog at home. Thanks!

tcj

How about a Penn 148gr full wadcutter at 850 fps. The bullet is flat at both ends. The wound channel at 850 fps would be 0.759". Five 3/4" holes in a bad guys chest through and through would ruin his whole day. Don't worry about overpenetration. In real shootouts most bullets don't even hit the bad guy!

Say guys look at the little gem I found during my travels, check out the Corbon DPX!!!!
http://www.brassfetcher.com/110%20grain%20Cor-Bon%20DPX.html
Also sorry about posting here didn't see the ammo topic

Tcj

Any of the Magsafe 38 loads would be ok. They wont come out with a torso hit. The Magsafe loads would be ok for the street if you can live with no barrier penetration. The frangables break up when they hit something, hence the "safe" part: no ricochet. I prefer a little more penetration for the street because you may have to shoot a large dog. The DPX looks good for that.

Hi thinking of purchasing that ultralight Charter Arms 38 Off Duty. Charter Arms states that this firearm is rated for the occasional use of +P ammunition. I like this little pistol for two reasons the weight and the fact that I can equip it with a laser for a reasonable amount. Make that three the price the price I feel is also decent. So what would you guys recommend for a concealed carry load want to get the most punch I can I would only use the +P stuff for defensive purposes and use regular ammo for target practice. By the way what would you recommend for practice ammo as well want it cheep but accurate. Thanks
Cj
I think your first priority is to get a quality laser installed. Pick up some white box or UMC ammo for practice and learn how to use BOTH the sights on your revolver. Then run through 1/2 dozen +P loads of your choice and you're done.
Buffalo Bore's .38 special ammo would be a good choice whether it's the 158 semi-wad cutter or 125 Gold dot, and each uses flash suppressed powder developed for 2 inch barrels.

I am not going to get into what you should use but what ever you decide on practice often as you can with what ever you chose. Two in the chest, one in the head at 20 to 25 feet is one of the best drills you can master. I also have a laser site and once you get use to it they are great. Be on 25 feet with a stub nose in a real fight can be iffy that you will hit your target. :eek:

I am not going to get into what you should use but what ever you decide on practice often as you can with what ever you chose. Two in the chest, one in the head at 20 to 25 feet is one of the best drills you can master. I also have a laser site and once you get use to it they are great. Be on 25 feet with a stub nose in a real fight can be iffy that you will hit your target. :eek:


So a laser loses it's effectiveness with a snub nose beyond 25 feet? what would you estimate the most effect range would be with a laser, also any recommendations. Thanks

cj

Any of the Magsafe 38 loads would be ok. They wont come out with a torso hit. The Magsafe loads would be ok for the street if you can live with no barrier penetration. The frangables break up when they hit something, hence the "safe" part: no ricochet. I prefer a little more penetration for the street because you may have to shoot a large dog. The DPX looks good for that.


Thanks for the info really hadn't considered the lack of penetration although Magsafe says some of their ammo will penetrate car doors if you check out their sight take a look at the Mini Glock ammo.

cj

A factor you may run into is a load not shooting to the point of aim with the fixed sights on the gun. For that reason, you may want to try 2 or 3 different defense loads.
Several good ones have been mentioned, and I can think of a few others: the Winchester Silvertip, Hornady XTP, etc.
Frankly, I think any of the good defense loads will do fine, if you hit the target. None of them will if you don't.

Curt,

I have carried a sidearm for 12 years now. My favorite is Smith & Wesson's model 66 (21/2" or 3"), but any K-frame would be equal for me. I load my revolver with Winchester's 158-grain lead semiwadcutter hollowpoint. I am not concerned with marketting hype, gimmick bullets/loads, energy, or the mythical "one-shot-stop". However, I am most interested in my gun handling and marksmanship skills. Also, I want a bullet that will penetrate sufficiently (hence the heavy weight).

I have to practice alot to maintane my confidence in my skills, so I load my own practice ammunition. I expend about 1,200 rounds per year. When I purchased ammunition for training, I would use the Winchester-USA 110-grain .357 Mag. load. It promptly destroyed, a Smith J-frame Magnum. Recoil was not bad, but the light-bullet magnum loads generate pressure curves which wreak havoc with revolvers with constant use. I reasoned this was silly, so I purchased a K-frame revolver and now only use 158-grain loads. I think a 158-grain semiwadcutter .38Spl. would be a great practice load for a fixed-sight .38Spl. revolver.

With .38Spl. ammunition, I do not change loads when I return home. When I carried Magnum ammunition, I would change loads for use in the house, because of the noise. My testing has shown me that the 158-grain SWCHP +P load penetrates sufficently and expands, so I consider it adequate.

I like to use Hornady's 158-grain .38SPL XTP load for reloads, because it feeds very well from a speedloader. Those LSWCHPs tend to hang up on the charge holes.
This is a standard-pressure load, and it does not expand reliably; but, it does penetrate.

Best wishes,
Rushbeau

I test all my defensive ammo, and the clear winner in nearly every caliber has been the Speer Gold Dot. In 38's, their new "Short-Barrel Load", has already passed every test I can think of with flying colors, they hold togehter well, penetrate sufficiently, and expand just like the pictures. They work well out of 2, 3, and 4-inch guns, and shoot more accurately than any other load I've tried. YMMV, but I'm sold, and keep them in my 44, 40, and 38 handguns.

And Cheezywan, not to pick nits, but the lead round nose the old-timers carried was HORRIBLE ammo, it was called, "The Widowmaker" for very good reasons. A plain old 158-grain soft lead hollow-point is a far better option, whether it's called the Metro Load, the FBI Load, or the Chicago Load. I love my Gold Dots, but if I had to carry those, I'd not lose much sleep. Like you said, it's the hits that count!

Papajohn

And Cheezywan, not to pick nits, but the lead round nose the old-timers carried was HORRIBLE ammo, it was called, "The Widowmaker" for very good reasons. A plain old 158-grain soft lead hollow-point is a far better option, whether it's called the Metro Load, the FBI Load, or the Chicago Load. I love my Gold Dots, but if I had to carry those, I'd not lose much sleep. Like you said, it's the hits that count!

Papajohn[/QUOTE]


Would not be my first pick of current offerings either Papajohn. Unless, my carry arm showed a particular preference for them. I feel the same about a round lead ball!
I really can't imagine myself(or anyone else) putting up much of a fight with a .357" hole in my chest.

Your point is taken though! The old round nose load may have not been the "best choice" for police carry. It is still a very viable option for self defence if your gun shoots them well.
Cheezywan

I wouldn't use them for anything but plinking, and even then, there's a high risk of ricochet. A forensics guy who retired many years once told me that an ice pick was a better stopper than a 38 RN. If they don't hit bone, there is essentially no wound track!

The only reason they still survive is because some folks don't know any better. Heck, some guard services even issue them, because they're terrified of issuing "Evil Hollow-Points", when in fact the HP's are SAFER to use. I make it a point to check the ammo of all armed officers at my site, and issue them Gold Dots. In terms of liability (the only thing administrators seem to care about anymore :rolleyes: ) they're a lot more defensible in court than a load that zips thru the bad guy and kills the old lady down the street!

PJ

I will not claim to have experience in this. I have not ever had to kill a man. I have shot a lot of .38 specials into all kinds of "stuff", and have learned that I would not like to be on the recieving end. The same is true for smaller calibers.

All can kill with one or two well placed shots.
Who wins a gunfight? The guy with a hollowpoint or the guy with the roundnose? We have already agreed on this.
Cheezywan