I very recently purchased my first handgun, a S&W Sigma series SW380. Before this, I had always wanted to own and practice shooting and then I had a problem with some rather shady neighbors coming to my house and attacking me. I was armed only with a hammer ( the kind used to drive nails) Fortunately, I backed them off and locked myself inside until the police arrived, but of course it became very apparent that owning a gun was no longer a passive interest, but a necessity. The police officer himself suggested it. I didn't really have time to do a lot of research or order online and I was on somewhat of a budget and after going to a couple of gun shops, the SW380 seemed like the best choice in my price range. The problems with my neighbors have fortunately subsided, but now I have a new sparked interest in practicing with my new gun. I did some research and found the gun I bought to get decent reviews in accuracy for it's size and such, but noticed a lot of people did not think to highly of the life of the gun.

I was curious what anyone had to say or reply about the SW380 sigma series and any suggestions for a good future purchase in the under 400 dollar range as I will probably get a new one in the upcoming months and let my wife have this one.

Never owned a Sigma or shot one..but yes I heard the same things...that its not a very good firearm. Only the EV variation seemed to get some thumbs up.
That's not to say that other Smith and Wesson guns suck...just that the Sigma wasn't well engineered.

Please keep in mind that with firearms, you do get what you pay for. The cheap Sigma isn't exactly reliable on feeding and ejecting...not a scenario you want ot have happen if the shady neighbors come back.
The ideal defense gun will feed your defensive ammo 100% reliably. You don't want it to be like in the movies...the first shot misses, the gun jams, and you get jumped by a bunch of really angry dudes.

in other words, up your budget to $500, and get a reliable weapon. Sig's are reliable, but pricey...the SigPro 2022 is their polymer framed Sig, highly reliable, and often found for about $500 on sale. Comes with night sights too.
Glocks are reliable, but no external manual safety, so you need to follow the 4 rules of gun safety at ALL times in particular with a Glock. Springfield XD is also a great gun, often just under $500, and like Glock has no external safety so you need to have your mind on the 4 rules at all times.

A lot of revolvers are under $400, especially used ones.

Best idea, go to a range, and spend some time and money renting different guns and see what you like, feels comfortable, and that you shoot well. A gun IS an investment, so it should have research behind the purchase.

For under $400, you might want to look at a S&W 686, I got mine used for about $350, its a .357mag so it shoots .38spcl to allow the wife to practice on that platform as well. DA revolvers are very reliable, if you have a misfire on one round, just pull the trigger again and more than likely it will go off the 2nd time. They are extremely accurate as well.

For under $500 you should be able to pick up a used (CPO-certified pre-owned) SIG Sauer P-series. I picked up my P220 for about $425, I paid full price for my NIB P226, but that was about $700. Would I do it again...YES!!

I have never shot or even held a Sigma series S&W so I cannot tell you anything about them.

well, i think if you need a good reliable gun, stay away from the Sigma series. S&W make good guns. I have a S&W 1911 and the gun is really accurate (for an out of the box gun) for a $450 price tag that I bought at a gun-show. what I would recommend is practice at the shooting range and make friends familiar with the gun-show scene. Sell your Sigma or trade it in for either a Sig-Sauer or maybe a Browning. I saw a whole bunch of them at the gun-show here for less than $400. Make sure you choose a good caliber like a .40S&W or a .45ACP. Good man-stoppers. You will need to put your time in at the shooting range and with some effort you can be a reliable shooter.
Good luck and keep me posted on your progress.
Tom.

Eru,

I used to have one of the SW380s. It was a good, reliable and lightweight gun. Sights leave something to be desired (I'm used to conventional sights) but works for its intended job. The sights are like the Gutter Sight system. It has been the only polymor frame gun that I've bought and I just prefer steel and wood. The slide was investment cast and not forged as I also like so I sold it to my neighbor. There is currently some surplus P38/P1 9mm autos availble under your price range. What ever you find and like, make sure you get proper training in its use and manual of arms.

CD down at Fort Bragg

I don't know a lot about the gun you bought but i agree with the advise that ypou need a gun that will go bang 100% of the time when you pull the trigger. I own both revolvera and semi autos. Since you are new to guns my suggestion is to get a revolver. I've never felt undergunned with the revolver I sometimes use as a carry gun. S&W and Taurus have revolvers that are capable of carrying 7 & 8 rounds.

If you get a semiauto Glock is a good choice but as previosly posted they don't have the same type of saftey that other semi autos have so follow the posted advise on using the glock.

Thanks for the info and advice. Like I said before, it was an immediate necessity and I picked up what I could afford on the spot. I did get a chance to shoot it some and it handles nicely for me, especially having not shot a gun since I was a teenager. It's funny that necessity turned me on to interest as a hobby as well. I think I'm going to save for a better piece in the near future and let my wife have this one, but for now, it seems to be sufficient and so far so good. Granted, I know I need a good bit more testing to prove it, but hey, it's better than a hammer haha.

Suggestion for your next handgun: If you decide on a semi-automatic pistol choose nothing less powerful than a 9mm and if you decide on a revolver, nothing less than a .38 Special. IMHO, both cartridges are the MINIMUM requirement for stopping unpleasant people. Both cartridges are very popular and available just about anywhere at reasonable prices. Once you get your new handgun, practice, practice, practice until using it becomes second nature. Having to rely on a handgun to protect yourself and your family is not a pleasant experience so select enough firepower and learn how to use it because the life you save may very well be your own.

I definitely agree. I'm partial in research to the Glocks and definitely would like to go 9mm or possibly .40 or .45 cal. With a little time, I'll up my budget. My father in law's friend is taking me shooting this weekend and he's got several handguns of different calibers from .38 to .45 and I'll get to get a feel for some different types and power.

Built like a tank and excellent buys. Check GunsAmerica.com

very shootable!

.357 has excellent terminal ballistics and this gun is a great

Bad News Delivery System :D

Thanks for the info and advice. Like I said before, it was an immediate necessity and I picked up what I could afford on the spot. I did get a chance to shoot it some and it handles nicely for me, especially having not shot a gun since I was a teenager. It's funny that necessity turned me on to interest as a hobby as well. I think I'm going to save for a better piece in the near future and let my wife have this one, but for now, it seems to be sufficient and so far so good. Granted, I know I need a good bit more testing to prove it, but hey, it's better than a hammer haha.

Eru, Im kind of puzzled and I think you will understand why when you read this and I don't mean it to sound like you don't love and cherish your wife, but if you don't trust that handgun, why would you give it to her? Better to let her shoot what she wants to try and then let her pick what she wants to carry and shoot. Same goes for you. Find what fits you best and then use it, train with it, practice with it until you know it inside and out. Same for your wife. Besides, wives like to pick out their own stuff too and it looks much better when you are being supportive and caring about her choices. You get to be the hero and that leads to all sorts of bonuses. ;)

You might want to look at Ruger and Tarus for good, solid, reliable, reasonbly priced handguns. A good .357 magnum revolver is a great choice and Ruger's GP100 is a great place to start.

Eru, Im kind of puzzled and I think you will understand why when you read this and I don't mean it to sound like you don't love and cherish your wife, but if you don't trust that handgun, why would you give it to her? Better to let her shoot what she wants to try and then let her pick what she wants to carry and shoot. Same goes for you. Find what fits you best and then use it, train with it, practice with it until you know it inside and out. Same for your wife. Besides, wives like to pick out their own stuff too and it looks much better when you are being supportive and caring about her choices. You get to be the hero and that leads to all sorts of bonuses. ;)

You might want to look at Ruger and Tarus for good, solid, reliable, reasonbly priced handguns. A good .357 magnum revolver is a great choice and Ruger's GP100 is a great place to start.

You actually bring up a very very good point. In retrospect, I know she would eventually want to pick out her own and I know she will when more money becomes available. As for the little .380 I got now, it's not that I don't mistrust it, it's just that I felt like a lot of people didn't have good things to say about it. At the same time, there were some who said it was a great starter gun, that it just didn't hold up over time. It was a very recent purchase and my first gun. So far I've put a couple hundred rounds through it and havn't had a single problem and I like the way it shoots, but knowing that the people here are more experienced and knowledgable than me, I anticipate getting us better weapons before this one wears out with plenty more time to educate ourselves on the next investment.

I take no offense at all to the comment, like I said, you make a very valid point that I had not thought of and that's why I'm glad I found this forum. it's very informative and helps me with the angles I havn't though of.

Alrite, so, i went to an indoor firing range in Asheville today and had a lot of fun. Being as new as I am, I stayed at 5 yards this session and noticed a marked improvement as the afternoon wore on. I went from shooting all over the target to grouping them with in 5 inches sometimes through the center area and sometimes low to the left. There were some older shooters who gave me a few tips along the way. Still no problems with the gun, but next session, I'm going to rent another or two. I think I actually would like to have a bigger handle. The small one on this gun is not very much to hold on to for starting out as I am. I'm curious how I did for my second session ever and the first at an actual range where the distances and targets are marked.

this video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363&q=ipsc+todd+jarrett) helped me pull my shots into nice little groups. definitely worth a look to both noobs and olds alike.

Eru, I have a real nice pistol for sale. http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=30628 I understand your price constraints. I would also toss in a Titan .38 spcl. Snub nose NYPD revolver for 65.00. Both for 515.00, shipped. I'll include 2 mags for the 10mm. PM me w/ questions if interested. JP

Always a good thing to get a refresher niner. Thanks.

Check out rock island's 1911. They are under $400 on gunbroker. I looked at them last summer,but decided on a springfield. Both are imported, which seems to be the norm for many firearms today.

There are several good 1911 clones that are decent, serviceable self defense firearms. They aren't high dollar, but will still do the job at close range. They can also be accessorized, as your budget permits.


I like the 45 acp over the smaller 9mm, which I also own in a ruger p85. The 9mm does have one advantage; it is cheaper to shoot with all the inexpensive ammo on the market.

In revolvers, it is hard to beat a smith. Taurus makes a smith copy that is also pretty nice, and considerably less expensive. 38 special is ok, 357 has more energy,but you must be able to shoot it well under stressbul condiitons.
I would choose a minimum of k frame size smith for the 357.
L or N would be even better.

Whichever firearm you choose, consider the conditions under which you will possibly defend yourself. Be careful about
the possibility of penetrating a wall and injuring a neighbor or loved one. Frangible ammo is available that will minimize the likelihood of that happening. You don't have to practice with the frangible or other specialty ammo, rather save it for home defense.

Another good choice for home defense is a pump shotgun with bb shot. BB is less likely than buckshot to penetrate wallboard. There is nothing quite like the sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round to let an intruder know that you are armed and mean business.

Eru, I have a real nice pistol for sale. http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=30628 I understand your price constraints. I would also toss in a Titan .38 spcl. Snub nose NYPD revolver for 65.00. Both for 515.00, shipped. I'll include 2 mags for the 10mm. PM me w/ questions if interested. JP

That is a nice gun and a good deal. It may be a bit before I could make the purchase and I'm sure you're selling now, but I will definitely keep you in mind if you still got it when I get the cash up again.

Otherwise, the range I found today had some good deals, better than the shops here in my town. This place was in a bigger town about 30 miles east of me, the closest range. I definitely got some options.

Thanks for the info and the offer.

Always a good thing to get a refresher niner. Thanks.
I was told to watch it over and over, memorize it basically, practice the method shown by dry firing, then head to the range and try it out. It worked, it brought my groups in and sped my time up :D

Niner- what a great video!

Eru- Definitely wouldn't place the .380 in the wife's hands if you don't have 100% confidence in it. In spite of your, "haven't had a single problem and like the way it shoots." You originally seemed wary of this weapon, and you expect your wife to trust it? Buy a J,K, or L frame S&W used in .38 or .357, safe and flawlessly reliable. Can be kept loaded without spring wear, etc.

Let your wife choose it, you keep the .380 for now until you can afford something better for yourself.

For your home you may want to consider a lever action rifle chambered in .357 or .44 Mag. Accurate, easy to maintain and learn to use well, short enough for close quarters, with good capacity. A round being jacked into a lever gun is just as much of a "burglar alarm" as a pump shotgun!

Talk it through with your wife, she may have her own ideas that will surprise you! Don't lead her, let her make her own choices, and remember that whatever you choose, practice with each others firearms so you have familiarity.

Hammer2Fall, I do like your idea of a compact levergun for home defense, I just feel the need to add something to the pot on it. Before you do, look at where your neighbors are. If they are right across the sideyard and driveway next door or across the street, you should Google Box of Truth and check out penetration tests there. How much sheetrock and plywood will that pistol bullet penetrate at carbine velocities and how far will it go when it leaves your house?

I like both the shotgun and the levergun for diferent things, different reasons. It came up in another discussion here about shotguns whether it's a good idea or not to announce your armed presence by racking the slide. Personally, I dont want them to know I am there until the BG has no chance to react to whatever I do. If I have the element of surprise, I don't intend to give that edge away.

Here is a link of you have trouble finding it. http://www.theboxotruth.com/

WOW!!! What a great link! Thanks MMAK! I found the steel door the most interesting. I've been wanting to do something like that at the club- now I don't have to!
The reason I recommend the lever action more, (not instead of), the shotgun, is the spouse consideration. Most women,
(and SEVERAL men that I know), have a palpable fear of a shotgun's recoil. The reason, I believe, is because of their portrayal in movies, which is almost always grossly exagerrated. A .357 levergun is a joy to shoot recoil-wise, and you can practice/familiarize with .38's to make it even easier. Likewise with the .44 Mag/.44 Special.
Just my thoughts. :)

Racking the slide, point well taken, but if they (BG) hear you,
I hope they're wearing their brown pants! :D

Ok, I have read enough in this thread to make a grown man sick. Every one of the bad opinions on Sigma's have been by people that have self admittedly never shot or owned a sigma. This around the corner, heard it from my neighbor sigma bashing has got to stop.

If you have never owned one then you have no reason to post a negative about the gun.

I wont sit here and tell you not buy a certain gun but I will tell you this. I have put over 1400 rounds through my Sigma 9mm with one...One failure to eject and it was due to the fact that I was shooting hand reloaded and cast rounds from the local gunshop. My good buddy was standing right next to me shooting his Glock 23 and he had the same problem with rounds loaded and cast by the same guy. So all of the he said she said bull needs to stop. I have heard of a few people that had problems with their sigmas extractors breaking in the .9mm but if you call the company up they will send you a shipping label and you send the gun in and they replace it with a .40 extractor that will never break.

So please... If you have never shot the gun or owned it dont comment on what your uncles, cousins, brothers, sister twice removed had problems with.

"Every one of the bad opinions on Sigma's have been by people that have self admittedly never shot or owned a sigma."

Actually, there was only one post denigrating the sigma.
The rest of the posts were supporting getting a firearm that would give the owner complete confidence.

Be it caliber, action type, magazine capacity...something that doesn't give one complete confidence is worthless, in my mind.

Of course, I would rather have a firearm that I didn't have confidence in than nothing at all. But, with the ability to plan ahead of time, why not choose carefully?

Actually 3 of the first six posts were telling the guy to "Stay away from the sigma... its not a good gun."

Im not trying to start a war or anything here seeing as this is my first day as a registered member of this forum but if I have to read ignorant posts like that I don't know how long I will be here.

There are two simple questions you should ask yourself when commenting on the reliability, accuracy and overall value of a gun.

first question.
Have I ever shot this gun?
second question
Have I ever owned this gun?

If the anwer to either of these questions is "No", you should keep your opinion to yourself.

I totally understand what you guys are trying to get across to him about him fully trusting his firearm to have his wife use it but one guy bashing the firearm he has now can create a slight bit of doubt even in the most opinionated mans mind.

Well, it's been a little bit and I have put about 400 rounds through the little sigma. I havn't had one problem. Still working on my shooting, but making slow improvement. Next week, the guy who runs the shooting range told me to call him when I can come in about 30 minutes before he opens so he can help me with some instruction. I've been kind of teaching myself because they stay busy. It's the only shooting range in a town of about 200,000.

I've become more pleased and confident with the gun by this point. I still intend to upgrade to 9mm and something with more magazine capacity, but I may not even trade in this gun. It's kind of grown on me as the first handgun.

I do take care of it well though, clean it thouroughly after ever session and check for any wear. I havn't had any so far so I'm thinking it's not such a bad gun.

Speaking of my shooting, I'm shooting high to the left sometimes and low to the left sometimes. always to the left. This is after adjusting my grip according to some instruction. I actually did a little better holding it incorrectly, but my thumb joint was really sore when that happened so I can't continue firing that way. Another issue is the eye I use to sight with. I have this weird issue where I cannot close only my left eye so I tend to use my just me left eye to sight and I don't think it's my dominant eye. I remember this being a huge obstacle as a teenager firing hunting rifles (actually why I never got into hunting) but, I need to figure out a way to compensate or fix the way I look down the sight to get better.

have you tried firing with both eyes open? I used to sight with my right eye only and was told to try keeping both eyes open and it has worked wonders for me... although it may not work for everyone you may want to give it a shot.

If, as I believe, this is the once-produced S&W .380 pistol -- well, there's a reason they're no longer being made. Although a good one will work, they are distincly inferior to almost any other gun with the S&W marque on it -- and S&W admitted it at the time, stating that their intent was to get an inexpensive gun out there, even if it had a limited lifespan. The slides are zinc, just like the cheapest-of-the-cheap autos on the market, and the rest of the gun followed suit, although they looked nice enough. S&W claimed they had a "useful life" of 3,500 rounds. A couple of guys I know felt lucky to get 500 out of theirs. S&W would rebuild them, it's true. but there was some cost involved in getting that done.

For my money, the Bersa .380 (also sold as the Firestorm .380) is a MUCH better gun. although slightly bigger.

PS: This gun was a Sigma in name only, bore no design resemblance to the larger Sigma whatsoever.

yeah, trying out different ways still, I hope this next session, I can get some good pointers and demonstrations from the range owner. He seemed pretty knowledgable. I may be trying to hard with the sighting. I've noticed I shoot better when I relax a bit more and just hold straight, look, and fire. I just got thrown off with a friend's comments about dominant eye and all this stuff he was telling me.

I don't doubt that there are much better guns waiting for me than mine and yeah, it's the S&W Sigma 380 auto, I was just saying it hasn't turned out to be the piece of junk I was led to believe by a few. Still want something with a inch or so more on the handle however.

Eru..

I'm a right handed shooter who is S L O W L Y learning to be right eye dominiant....

It is taking a lot of dry fire time, but it is workin.. I start with the gun in low ready, focus on target (elk figure next to tv) bring gun up, sites alligned, close left eye to ensure that it is doing the domanaint work..

took about two weeks, and I intend to continue with almost nightly regime.

hope this helps, keep practicing, and congrates on being smart enough to ask questions and seek instruction!!

best o luck

Nate