Hello Marshall (and others),

I haven't given up on loading your bullets in my Taylor, but it's been a "on and off again" project.

My current problem is with C.O.L. &nbsp;When I load the 335gr bullets to 3.350&quot; (the normal maximum for functioning through this rifles magazine) it seems that they really jam into the throating. &nbsp;I can barely close the bolt on them. &nbsp;In fact, the last one I loaded, was so hard to chamber, I decided I better not shoot it. &nbsp;I had to knock my bolt handle (lightly) on the shooting bench to get it free. &nbsp;The bullet stuck in the chamber, and I got back the brass and powder. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

I know this is not your fault! &nbsp;It's mine. &nbsp;

Anyhow, I've decided I need to seat these bullets deeper (duh.) &nbsp;<!--emo&;)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->

So, I seated them till the very last (first?) lube groove is now inside the case neck. &nbsp;The C.O.L. is now about 2.970&quot;.

They feed much better, with just a bit of resistance as the bolt handle is lowered.

My question is, do you think this is too deep to seat these bullets? &nbsp;I can tell that the 70.0gr load of H4985 (a mild published load for 400gr jacketed bullets) is being slightly compressed.

While I was trying to avoid too much pressure due to jamming the bullet. &nbsp;Now I'm worried about compressed loads (even if mild.)

BTW, &nbsp;I did shoot two of these rounds over the chrono before this happened, the first read around 2500fps, and the second one didn't record (cheap chronograph.) &nbsp;So I not really sure what velocity it's getting. &nbsp;Accuracy wasn't checked either.

Thanks for your time everyone! &nbsp;This is really a great forum!

Well,

I went ahead and shot the loads, and I've still got all nine fingers and one eye! <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

The load I was most concerned about (70.0gr H4895) shot just fine. &nbsp;Velocities were....

2601
2603
2593
2573

There were more shots, but the chrony gave some funky readings, which I ignored.

Accuracy could be measured with a 1 foot ruler, which is actually an improvement for my cast loads!

Guess I should of been seating these bullets deeper all along.

Thanks! (to me, I guess?)

Brian, don't feel too bad about the group size, I just got back from the range where one memorable string of 6 shots left exactly 1 hole in the paper - at 75 yards.

It does happen!

Thanks Mike! &nbsp;I think? <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

Do you mean all your bullets made &nbsp;one large hole? &nbsp;Or, that only one round hit the target?

I'm starting to wonder if I'm just plain driving these things too fast? &nbsp;Perhaps I should back them down to around 2200fps? &nbsp;

After all, this is suppose to be cheap practice ammo. &nbsp;Not that this load wouldn't kill most animals, even in Africa! &nbsp;But you can't beat the price, compared to even the cheapest jacketed .416 bullets (Hornady RN's.)

I got only one slightly oblong hole... hey, now that you mention it, maybe ALL of the bullets tipped and went through the paper in the same spot!

I can't offer much help with cast bullets in rifles. &nbsp;From very limited experience, it seems that they're more sensitive to velocity changes than jacketed.

Your 'practice' load sounds like a real thumper!

Brian,

Just a few questions. &nbsp; Are you using an &quot;M&quot; type neck expander die before seating the cast bullets in your .416 Taylor? &nbsp;If not, you should, and they are available from RCBS as a stock item... Lyman has gotten a stiff neck lately and won't do any custom work anymore.

Next, when seating to the depth you reported, is the base of the bullet contained within the neck of the case? &nbsp;If not, then you'll get poor results to say the least. &nbsp;Hence perhaps the large groups. &nbsp;If you must seat the bullets to a depth that puts the bullet base below the neck, and into the powder capacity of the case, it's amazing what a filler like Grex or corn meal will do to tighten those groups.

Also, you might be pushing those bullets just a tad bit fast. &nbsp;Consider using a slightly compressed charge of H4350 for great uniformity and toning down the velocity just a touch. &nbsp;It might work wonders for you.

These are just a few ideas that come to mind at this insane hour of the morning.... perhaps I'll have a brainstorm after a recharge from some sleep, and I'll share more later!

God Bless,

Marshall

Marshall,

I have been looking around for some info on this and ran across this old thread and need to pick someones brain for info on this number.

got a commercial mauser in 416 Taylor at a gun show this weekend and need to find out what kind of brass to use for it. 458 WM and go down or 338 and go up?

Also, I am guessing that standard magnum powders aren't the answer here and instead need to go with the more medium burning powders...any suggestions?

Lastly, I will be ordering probably 100 each of the two offerings you have...you don't happen to have a starting load for them? :)

D

Thanks for the info NFG, starting to wonder if anyone at all still works with this number. :)



Have you tried any of Marshalls cast bullets in your Savage?


D

Better to neck down with the 458 than go up ..
I had I think the sixth one ever built many years ago , stolen , working on another as we speak ..
Have no cast load data at my fingertips , but IMR 4320 was the trick with 400 grain jacketed bullets ..
PM me if you want it , I will forward it to you ..
Think I have some cast data buried somewhere ..

hey, you kept this one from going away! :)


I WAS thinking about a rebarrel to a 338 WM or something similar, but I will hang onto it for now...


As it would be a 100-150 yard shooting experience at the most, what brand of scope do you use?

I was looking at something along the lines of a 1.5x5 or similar power scope...

D

I haven't used cast bullets in the cartridge, but like NFG, I've settled on RL-15 with the Speer 350 gr Mag Tip, but 73.5 gr of the powder, and CCI 250 primer. This gets me around 2200-2400 fps (dang cheap Chrono doesn't let me get better numbers than that range) in a '98 Mauser w/24" barrel.

Though I haven't spent much time on this, the 400 gr Hornady RN seems encouraging, with the same powder but 72.5 gr and same primer, and oddly, the Chrono is reading about the same velocities, but about 100 fps less on the top end. Quite a bit more thump on my end with this.

Scope? A Burris Signature posi-lok 1.5-6x. A fine scope in my opinion.

I can only imagine...

I was looking at either a Leupy or a Nikon UCC for my first try at this...

and as far as the 350 and 400 gr. at approx 2200 fps I am sure that it would waylay anything...considering how much I can do with a 400 gr. 45-70 with less SD at 1600 fps...yeah...as I said...I think I got a keeper... :)

Thanks also for the Ken Waters book tip...somthing else I have to go get now... :rolleyes:


D

Taylors are keepers , they grow on you real bad ..

WELL...

Got impatient...grabbed some 338 WM brass from the local supply (no 458 in stock...for some reason not too popular around here in SE Texas...).

Found a box of Hornady 400 gr. RN's and a box of 350 Speer Mag Tips.

From some reading I have done...I decided to try a diffrent tact...went with the slowest powder I could find data for...found it from the old Bob Hagel article, where he used some IMR 4350 and stated that he couldn't get enough in the case to make max pressure, but still gave good accuracy at 100 yards.

Took his data and kicked it down the normal 10% and went with 72 gr. of 4350 behind both bullets to see what they would do...also to act as a "forming load" as well.

The mag tips gave me just less than 2" at 100 with a 5 shot string...the 400's were about 4" so I will have to see about another powder for them...burnt relatively clean...left no more residue than what you would normally find from a factory loading, I would assume. I am guessing from the recoil (didn't have my chrony out...TOO WINDY!) I was probably producing about 2100 fps mebbe with those loads...make a good Hogzilla harvester! :)

The "T" is now firmly in my battery of rifles and won't be going anywhere anytime soon. :D

Thanks for all the help with this guys...I would really like to keep this thread going in case someone else finds this great number! Now I just need to get some extra cash and get some of Marshall's CBs...

D

Try a case full of Varget. I am using the starting loads for Varget with 400gr. Speers in my .458 - think it is about 74gr. or so. It is a very low pressure load in the .458 Win and I don't expect you'd have any problems in the .416.

Varget seems to tolerate low pressure loads very well.

I have Varget, AA2520 and BLC2 to all play with...I am thinking a recoil pad might be in order for the future. :)



On another note, who all has used Hornady's basic belted mag brass?


D

I've used both 458 WM and 338 WM brass in mine, and couldn't tell the difference in any way. Another route you can try is getting A-Square 416 Taylor brass through Midway. I was able to get two 20-rd boxes of it, and it's good stuff, although if I recall, something around $40/20 rds (they come in a durable plastic cartridge case). I did have to ream out the flashhole as it was pulling my decapping pin out.

Getting any A-Square stuff seems an iffy venture. Midway catalogs 6.5-06 brass from A-Square, and I placed an order, which was placed on backorder, but they eventually cancelled the whole order. But if Midway has any in stock, you may be in luck.

NFG,

Yeah...looked around quite a bit for data using 4350...the website was pretty informative, as well as the accurate reloading's forum...but it seems that the amount of data collected just here in this thread is getting pretty substantial.

I think my next set of loads WILL be with a bit of BLC2....I actually ran out of RL-15 when I loaded up a batch of 308 ammo to play with...with so many cartridges using RL-15 an 8 lb jug will have to be bought...especially with that hungry mag case. :p


Thanks again guys!

D

NFG,
I did look at the website link, but only after the talkin'-to you gave us. ;) Some good info there; seems the RL-15 is a good choice based on the data.

I've only had one experience with Qual Cart, and it was a bad one - 6.5-06 brass through Midway. That's why I tried to get it from A-Square. The necks were too thick, and the brass was too soft. Between the two, I couldn't even get it past the expander button in the die without crushing the case. Probably just a fluke in their quality, and no harm done since I returned it and got my $$ back and am using 25-06 brass as before.

If you haven't found the Ken Water's Pet Loads Data for the Taylor, give me an email and Ill see about sending it to you. Neat article, too bad he didnt do one on the .416 Rigby.

If you haven't found the Ken Water's Pet Loads Data for the Taylor, give me an email and Ill see about sending it to you. Neat article, too bad he didnt do one on the .416 Rigby.

Hey thanks Michael. Got Pet Loads for Christmas last year. Lot of reading there and I've only gotten to a few sections so far.

Michael,

sent you a PM about that info.



To the rest...I just answered my question about the Hornady basic belted mag brass...


NEVER AGAIN! First and LAST time I ever have to use a bloody tubing cutter to get an initial size on the brass, then formed, then trimmed...Lord have mercy...


D

Yeah...the Wilson would have also been alot better that what I was using...

About the only tool RCBS makes that I cuss is their Trim-Pro...it is going to be Ebay bait when I get my bonus...Wilson case trimmer here I come.

D

Just put in an order with Marshall for 100 each of his 335 and 375's.

I am figuring on mebbe using 3031 or RL7 with those using some data I gleaned from the internet...


I am thinking, and please correct me here if you see any danger, but I was going to start out with a shot of 54 grains of RL7 on the 375's. I would probably go 2 or 3 grains higher on the 335's.

the 3031...I was going to see about a possibly a 58-59 gr. starting load with the 375's and go from there...my aim is to try to keep the velocities for the CB's at around 2000 MAX...not worried about leading the barrel, just want to keep them at a mild kick on my end and also make it to where it would harvest a hog or two with no issues. I figure that at 2000 I should have about 3300 FPE at the muzzle which would be MORE than enough for the biggest piggie...

Started looking harder and harder and found a bit more load data for the old T. Including some 748, 760 and Varget loads. :)

D

Was going to email this but figured let's send it out there for all to share. Thanks due to Ken Waters. I just typed.


From Ken Waters Pet Loads for 416 Taylor

300 grain jacketed Colorado Custom spitzer bullet

64g. 3031 2373 fps
65g. 3031 2413 fps
68g. 3031 2534 fps good average load
72g. 3031 2680 fps most accurate load with high velocity
68g. 4064 2421 fps
73g. 4064 2569 fps
70g. 4320 2521 fps second most accurate load tested
72g. 4320 2624 fps excellent balanced load
73g. 4320 2653 fps accuracy poorer
75g. 4320 2711 fps MAXIMUM! Highest velocity load tested
72g. 748 2330 fps Fine accuracy with moderate velocity
74g. 748 2398 fps


400 grain jacketed Colorado Custom round nose bullet

60g. 3031 2182 fps Third most accurate load tested
64g. 3031 2291 fps
66g. 3031 2345 fps
68g. 3031 2400 fps MAximum! Do not exceed.
66g. 4064 2240 fps
70g. 4064 2363 fps.
68g. 4320 2355 fps
70g. 4320 2401 fps Best load in this caliber for African game.
72g. 4320 2447 fps MAXIMUM! Do not exceed.
73g. 4320 2469 fps DANGER! Blows primers. Don't use.
66g. 748 2101 fps
70g. 748 2226 fps.


All velocities were from a Ruger M77
Winchester No. 120 primers used for all loads
Cases formed from .458 Winchester brass
Loaded OAL with 300 grain sptz. bullets 3.28" to 3.30"
Loaded OAL with 400 grain r.n. bullets 3.325"

Mr. Waters data looks real good. :)


I have noticed somthing however...

I have been seating my bullets to the cannelure on the Hornady RN's and Speer Mag tips...I am now starting to worry about pressure from compressed charges...

I haven't had any loose primers or sticky extractions, however...It IS a Mauser rifle, but I really don't want to see if its as strong as all say it is. :(


next time I shoot, the chrony will be with me.


D

Well, I didn't have my chrony with me on my trip to Austin. Met some folks up there and we went to the ARC and had some goold fun.

Drug out the Taylor and Lord have mercy...shot it on Saturday and my shoulder is still a bit sore. :P

HOWEVER....with initial tests...the cast that I was able to get ahold of worked EXCELLENT!

Rough numbers here....both were RCBS moulds one was 350 actual 349 where the other was supposed to be 400 but weighed in at about 387 average IIRC. BH was 22 and was straight linotype.

The 350's shot POA so the velocities were about the same I reckon...the larger slugs were shooting lower, naturally but not adversly so...I was able to compensate by using the duplex and was about POA for those then. I will have some load and chrony data for these soon, I hope with weather permitting.

I let some folks shoot it and the general consensus was um...ouch. :) lol wimps

Again, glad to say I didn't get rid of this number... :D