Anyone reload the .358 Win? If so, do you use .358 or .308 brass?

For those that form .358 from .308 brass using the .358 sizing die, do you anneal the case necks after forming or is it not required? I'm not interested in fire-forming.

Trying to decide between buying new .358W brass or .308 for this operation. The price difference is significant.

Last question, how many reloads do you typically achieve before throwing the brass away for either case type (i.e., .358W or .358 formed from .308)?

Any general pointers/advice is welcome :).

- Gringo Loco

I don't load either one, but I load a .35 Whelen which is the same principle. I bought some R-P with the proper headstamp last year, just to have some, but I always use .30-06 brass that I just run through the dies. Just keep the necked up brass clearly marked in a propaerly marked box, so you don't confuse it with real .308 brass.

I don't know that I have ever worn out any of my brass, but I like to use military brass that's a little heavier than commercial brass.

Necking up that much could lead to split necks after a few reloads. I've done it (308 to 358) but that brass has only been loaded once and hasn't been fired yet. (Sis has it and the 99 Savage)

I took some 270 brass and necked it up to 35 Whelen, but only as an experiment. The neck is pretty thin and I'm not sure if I'll load it of not. New brass is pretty easy to work with as far as necking up or down, so annealing shouldn't be an issue.

The number of reloads depends on the load. If it's a healthy load your brass won't last as long. But as a rule you should get 5-6 reloads. Just keep an eye out for split necks or other signs of case fatigue.

Where are you getting your 358 Win. brass if you are buying new? Midway usually has it pretty reasonable. If you take into account your time spent necking up, you might break even if you bought new 358 brass.

RJ

Gringo, and all.

Would recommend 358 brass, personally, just for ease of mind more than anything else. I have used 308 brass to make sure that it could be done, and it was, fairly easily, so its something that I filed away for a rainy day. Well, since the good folks at Midway still carry 358 brass, its not raining yet.

I only fired the 308/358 stuff once, and then put it someplace where it wouldn't get mixed in with the other stuff, as I shoot and load for a 308 as well. It did fine, far as I can tell, but I did do some reckoning that the stress from expanding would be the equivilant of several firings. Now, this is not a fact, but a belief of my own, so individual results may vary. one of the really exciting things about this business is that I never stop learning, and am anxious to hear what others have found.

One man's opinion.

Best.

Steve

I use once-fired PMC/Rem .308 brass for hunting loads and ex-mil .308 brass (Boxer and Berden primed) for reduced 158gr loads. I use the tapered expander in the Lee dies (lube the neck and tapered expander) and have had very few split necks. New brass is best, once fired is also good ... after that they can tend to split.
Cheers...
Con

I've only loaded 358 brass. I've shot some around 3 times and they look great. I have no doubts it will last at least 5 loadings, maybe closer to 10 in loads that aren't max. I'll keep track and see how they do.

I'd recommend the 358 brass myself as the necks aren't stretched. I don't know how thin they would be when they're made from 308 brass but I'd bet the case life would be less due to the stretching, as seems to be what Con experienced. I think it'd be worth the $7 or so for per 50 to get the extra loadings out of them. But get them while you can, they don't seem to last long.

May just have to try these both for myself and see how they compare. Still welcoming others to chime in on this discussion. Feel free to make recommendations on reloading the .358W in general (bullet selection, tips and tricks :) ).

- Gringo

I have a .358 Winchester, and I have only fired .308 brass in it. The loaded ammunition is rare in the stores, and brass is even more rare.
I use a tapered mandrel to size up the necks, and I have had good case life with several different brands (I tried a bunch just to see if there was any difference in case life). Most of my batches have over 5 loads, and there is no discernible case loss due to split necks; certainly no more than any other case. I have not annealed the cases.
Good luck and good shooting.

I should have apost on a thread somewhere comparing .308 and .356 brass, I'll look around for it. It is from the same time frame as the thread below. I see the links still work but the pictures are not anything special.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=18111&highlight=.358

I'd say it depends on your consumption rate.

If you use only a box a year or so to sight in and shoot a deer, then go for the extra cost. It's not worth the trouble.

If you shoot a lot, and expect to reload so many that you're wearing out cases, then it's worth the experimenting to reform .308's to reduce cost.

.

Oops ... I should have made it clearer. Case longevity is unaffected by the parent brass except for when necking up. New brass is easy to open up from .308, once fired brass is also easy but I may split 3 in 50 necks (particularly when I'm rushed and rough on the handle), twice fired 308 brass necked up will tend to split a bit more often. That makes sense as the more work hardened the necks, the more likely they are too split on being opened. Locating 358Win brass here is near impossible and you pay a price premium, where 100 pieces of AX .308 brass is around AUD$30. Not sure what its like in the States, but brass quality over the last few years has seriously declined. New brass (Winchester and Remington) is often dented with necks out of shape enough that they need to be run through a FL resizer to prepare them, otherwise projectiles wont seat without catching an edge. In that case necking up .308 brass is no hassle and because they shorten at the same time ... it avoids trimming for quite awhile.
Cheers...
Con

Thanks for all the input everyone. I will buy both .308 and .358 and see how they work out. Midway has both, with .308 about 1/3rd cheaper. If anyone else wants to add any general wisdom about the .358W about any aspect of reloading it, then please do.

Regards, Gringo Loco

Gringo,

My rifle is a BLR, and it tends to work the best with bullets in the 200/ 225 range, with a longer ogive. The blunt stuff (FP Speer 220s, RN Horn 250s) work, but there is a noticeable grab on the action when I am cycling. I have managed to make the 225 Nosler Ballistic tip work, and it did pretty well- functioning without that grab because of the long sloping ogive. OAL sizing with that bullet was done carefully, and very very slowly, I think it ended up being 2.810". It works in my gun, individual results may vary.

Powders that I have used are Win 748, AA2520, RL15, IMR 3031, 4320, 4198, and 4064. I have not had great luck out of ball powders, (748, 2520) in fact, they have performed so poorly, that I think I'll use them elsewhere. If you do try them, I'd use a mag primer, and I think they do better when loaded towards max. 48.5g of IMR 4064 behind a 200 Grain Horn Spit has been the best accuracy wise, by far, and I believe that M1 has had good luck out of this combination as well, so it looks promising. I'd check that grainage, because its off the top of my head, but it is whatever the max load is in the Hornady manual, for 4064.

I prefer CCI 200 primers in this cartridge, which is against my norm, as I normally use WLR primers for standard cartridges, and CCI 250s for magnums, so I can see if I am using a magnum primer just by color. WLR primers seat allot easier, but I have noticed less surely at times, and in this gun real attention has to be paid to the primers being seated properly or a fellow gets a misfire once in a blue moon. Certainly not the norm for me, but it has happened, and that was enough for me to switch.

About all I know, I hope that it works for you.

Best.

Steve

Thanks Steve. I just put in an order for .308 and .358 brass from Midway (500 of each). Had to move quick on it as they've just about sold out. I also just bought a Savage 99C in .308, so the .308 brass will get used either way. Read on another forum that the June issue of American Rifleman had an article on reloading the .358W. NRA said they would send it to me for free as I currently receive the American Hunter.

I no longer have my .358, but built a 35-284 to replace it. I also have a 284 Win Model 100 I like to shoot. I bought 500 new cases from Midway a couple of years ago and use 250 of them for 284 and 250 sized for the 35-284. I use a RCBS die to open the mouths to 35 caliber and can do it in one operation on new brass. I also lube the inside quite well prior to this step. I have not had a problem or lost one case going from 284 to 358. I made a lot of cases out of 308 for my 358 and used new brass only. Again, I lubed the neck well and don't remember loosing any in the process. If I were using once fired, I might consider annealing the neck only, just to insure no problems. I don't KNOW how much the lubing helps, but the operation is very smooth with no squeeking. Best of luck with your gun

Used to have a Winchester M88 in 358. Used a lot of different brass in 308 to make 358 and didnt have a splitting problem. I like to use new brass for hunting and would get a couple hundred 358 cases for that purpose. The 308 cases would be fine for practice. Back then I had more time and I made a lot of military cases into 358. These were used for lighter loads as they are thicker than commercial cases. Its a great round and any proper bullet gave good accuracy. Try some Squibb loads. You can get 38 spec velocity with almost no noise. My favorite bullet was the Hornandy 250 grain spt with WW748 for full loads.

I have formed 30-06 to 35 whelen and now form 308 to 358 win. by fireforming. I will normally anneal the case necks by standing the cases in a cake pan with water almost up to the neck. Heat the necks with a propane torch until the necks start to change color, and then tip them over into the water. After drying the cases, I prime the case, charge the case with a light cast bullet load of powder (normally Unique from Lyman cast bullet handbook) and fill it to the neck with corn meal and then stuff a small piece of cotton ball (make sure that it's 100% cotton) to hold cornmeal in, and then shoot the rifle. You can adjust the powder charge to fully form the case. Then you can load and shoot normal loads after checking case length. If you use military cases, case life is normally very good, the only drawback is that sometimes the primer pockets will need to be swaged. All of this sounds like alot of work, but it's really quite easy, and makes nice longlasting cases.
Regards,
Woody

I have not had great luck out of ball powders, (748, 2520) in fact, they have performed so poorly, that I think I'll use them elsewhere. If you do try them, I'd use a mag primer, and I think they do better when loaded towards max.



I haven't had any luck with 2520 either but I did get some mag primers to see what effect that has. I'll try some other bullets I have and see how they work with them.



48.5g of IMR 4064 behind a 200 Grain Horn Spit has been the best accuracy wise, by far, and I believe that M1 has had good luck out of this combination as well, so it looks promising. I'd check that grainage, because its off the top of my head, but it is whatever the max load is in the Hornady manual, for 4064.



Yes I did.. :D . Thanks to Steve, I saved quite a bit of time tinkering around with loads. Not that I mind but I have to say IMR 4064 has been the best powder I've tried yet. Not only have I gotten good accuracy from the 200 grn Hornady bullet but from the Rem and Sierra 200 grainers as well with that combo. Here's a few groups. The three rounder is the 200 Grn Rem Core Lokt SP and the other is 10 shots with the 200 grn Sierra RN. Both are at 100 yards and taking my mulligan into account on the Sierra near the center... ;) , the other 9 are in an inch an a half.

M1,

Dang! Excellent shooting, my friend. Match grade with a short barrelled thumper, talk about raising the bar. I'm glad you're on our side.

I've managed some pretty decent groups, counting as many as 4, with that one individalist a couple of inches distant, but 9?! I'd expect that gun is a keeper.

Well Done!

Steve

Thanks Steve but I can't take all the credit, the BLR is a great shooter and your loads with IMR 4064 work great! I have some Varget I'm going to try with some of the 220 & 225 bullets to see how that works.

I have always used .358 cases. Cases, unlike bullets and powder, are recyclable. No more cases than one will probably wear out the difference in cost is so trivial that the reforming, etc. is, in my mind, not worth the hassle.

Also there is no worry that someone might inarvertently chamber one in a .308 by mistake.

...I don't reload...yet.

- However my associatte and close-friend that does, pretty much says what BAGTIC does.

- If the brass is available in the caliber you are reloading then get it...
...It not only eliminates the extra effort and work related to reforming...
...but also reduces the chance or possibility of a mistake or malfunction related to the reforming/reloading process.

I don't know if 358 Winchester brass is still hard to find, but if it is, here's a heads-up. www.gamaliel.com has bags of 50 for $19.95 plus shipping. I just ordered 4 bags.

About 8 years ago www.starlinebrass.com told me that they would be supplying 38-55 brass in about a year. Their web site states "COMING SOON", but it has been like that for about 2 years. It will be made to the original specificatons and not too short like Winchester brass.

Gringo, I use once-fired Lake City match brass, sized through a Redding taper plug resizing die. The Lake City brass is well annealed, no problems with ruined cases. Cases fired 3 times show no fatigue. Overall length is a bit short, but does not seem to affect accuracy. Averaging 3/4" groups with Hornady spire points at 100 meters.