I'm a fan of the .375 bore. Presently I shoot a .375/06 JDJ (handgun), but it's short neck is really designed for jacketed bullets.

I saw the .375x2" proposed wildcat, but in the Encore using expensive brass isn't necessary, the '06 case will work just dandy as a .375 IMHO.

Am I on the right track with looking at the .375 Whelen as a cast bullet cartridge for the Encore? Looking at a neck length of .465", if I'm thinking correctly, the 255gr LFN GC will work nicely, I see no data to tell me if the 250 grain will. Since it's a single shot (I don't need to crimp) I do have some leeway on seating depth as it regards the bullet not intruding on powder space and keeping the grease grooves covered.

What do you all think?

Brian...I'll jump in here on this one. The .375 Whelen, designed by Bob Wallack, is and always has been an outstanding cartridge! People have been shy about it do to the "Pulp Paper Mill". These "experts", who never worked with the cartridge claimed its small shoulders would not allow postive headspacing. That's pure hogwash. Since I am the one designing the improved ".375 Beartooth" I will make the comparison between thr two. First of all, the ballistics, internal and external, are very close. Both case capacities are about the same. We are looking as an ideal for American game, a powder capacity of 60 grains of IMR type powder. Both have that. So....why the .375 Beartooth? The .375 Beartooth is designed around the OAL for the big Marlins and with a neck length to cover the lube grooves on the BTB 250 LFN GC. The .375 Whelen's length is for standard length bolt guns and single shots. The Encore is a very strong action, but I still suggest holding the psi @ 44,000/45,000. The neck on the whelen is the minimum to cover the BTB 250, but it will work, with maybe only the GC below the neck. Case life will be excellent on either one. The .375 Beartooth is based on the .350 Remington Magnum. It has sharp shoulders to aid in headspacing. The overall cost of brass just is not that much when compared with other cost. However, if you like that great wildcat, the .375 Whelen, by all means put it on the Encore. An excellent load for both cartridges is: 250 gr BTB LFN GC with 60 grians of IMR 4064 @ avg 2450 '/"- Me @ 3,335 ft/lbs. If you like, you can drop that powder charge 5% to get 5% less velocity with a 10% decrease in pressure. With IMR 4064 you can go all the way down to a 10% decrease in powder and a 10% decrease in velocity with a 20% decrease in pressure. That's the beauty of the IMR powders. You do not need a magnum primer. I hope this has been some help. Best Regards, James

Thanks James,

I'm glad you didn't take my post as casting aspersions on the new wildcat. I intended no negatives in it's direction.

I hope my continued musings make sense.

The brass cost I referred to was a personal one, I should have been more explicit and free with my typing. I have lots of .30/06 brass, hence it's cheap for me. Too, the smaller head size of the '06 (compared to .350 Rem Magnum head size) is my built in psi thrust limiter on the standing breech of the Encore. I know the Encore will handle the head size of the .350 at 55,000 psi, I just don't want to get anywhere near the Encores designed pressure limits, it's a safety thing and an "I don't want it to blow up in my hand" thing. :-) I admit it, I'm spleeny when it comes to the emergency room.

Since I admittedly know next to nothing about proper cast bullets is there a "cast bullet reason" not to push pressure to near 55,000 psi? I'll be pushing them out of a handgun length barrel and will want all I can get from the short tube.

Thanks.

Brian...No problem. I knew exactly where you were coming from. As for cast bullets..Marshall is the one to talk to as to what the upper limits of cast.It's my thoughts that velocity is more critical then pressure. You are correct as to the area of the head Vs back thrust, however many times this is offset by flatter side walls of the case. Consider the Improved version of the .375 Whelen to reduce backthust even more. If I was to build another custom Mauser, I would consider the .375 Whelen foremost. I have a good friend who swears by the .35 Whelen in the Remington Mod 7600. There were some problems with the first factory rounds as having too rounded shoulders causing some setback. Any fire forming on these Whelens should be with near working presure loads. The Encore is a great action but I still like a couple of thousnds long on the shoulders for "Snap Shut" which reduces case strecthing.
Best Regards, James

Brian,

Mo problem with the 55,000 psi and cast bullets, at least good hard, gas-checked bullets that are properly fit to the throat of your firearm!

When approaching this pressure threshold however, you will find that best accuracy, and overall cast performance will be obtained when loading the slowest burning powder that will still generate your target velocity.  In this way you have a longer pressure curve with the lowest possible spike, which facilitates ease of load development and contributes to some outstanding cast bullet performance!

As to the .375 Whelen... I've got a beautiful ex-GI Springfield action and a stainless steel medium contour .375" bore barrel that has been waiting for two years for me to put together as a .375 Whelen Improved!  The improved version as Mr. Gates has noted to reduce back-thrust on the boltface, and to virtually eliminate case stretch.  I've always appreciated the efficiency of the .375's and the .375 Whelen is an outstanding performer... one of those projects for long Idaho winter nights when I have nothing else to do! (Ha!)

God bless,

Marshall

Thanks Gents!

It looks like I need to do some research on the .375/06 Improved. I did see it in Cartridges Of The World, but it had little info about it.

what kids of ballistics can u get with a 375-06
guess its close to 338-06 performance and energy

SSUPERX....The .375 Whelen is the "sleeper" of wildcat cartridges! It should have been a factory load years ago instead of some of the junk that's come out. It's a very uniform cartridge and works like a dreamin standard length actions, even the Mauser. The case, like its parent case (.30-06) holds 61/63 grs of water. This gives a full density load of 54+ grs of IMR type powders. The following loads came out of my record book that Parker Ackley and Elwood Wimmer worked up years ago, but are still top notch!
235 gr jackectd bullet-57 grs IMR 4064 @ 2575 '/"
350 gr jacketed bullet-57 grs IMR 4064 @ 2545 '/"
This was out of a 24" barrel. The neck is also long enough to be a real fine hard cast bullet cartridge! Some will want to go to the .375 Whelen Improved, but I prefer the standard.
Best regards, James

Brian,

Have you considered the .375 Hawk from Z-Hat? Uses the cheap, widely available '06 brass you already have and gives over 2600 fps with 260 grain Nosler Partitions, 2500 fps with 270's, and even just shy of 2400 fps with 300's.

Bill, I couldn't be happier with the .375/06 JDJ as it's chambered in my handgun barrel. In it I use jacketed bullets as that's what it was specifically designed for. I'm not looking for another .375 that uses jacketed bullets.

I'm scanning the offerings for a .375 with a suitable neck for cast bullets, as the short neck of the JDJ isn't really suited to them. I saw the .375 Whelen and it looked like it'd do cast bullets, hence the Whelen/neck question.

Is the .375 Hawk suitable for cast bullets? I know nothing about it. Tell me more if it is.

Brian,

I have to be honest I don't know. Contact Z-Hat through their website at www.z-hat.com for more info.
I don't see any reason why it wouldn't. The short neck of the 300 Savage has never given me problems with cast 160 RN's, so I can't see much problem with this one.

I've been using the 375 Whelen for the past 10-12 years. It's never had a jacket slug through it, all cast. I use the data for the 35 Whelen and 30-06 to interpolate starting loads and powders.
I've found that the Accurate Arms powders 2460 and 2520 work best for my rifle. 2460 has worked nicely behind 250 grain to 300 grain slugs.
If there'a other info you want give me a yell.
Jim

I'm going to add a bit to my previous post.
My cases are standardized by uniforming the primer pocket and the flash hole. Then the neck is turned to a standard thickness and trimmed. All of this occurs after I have fire formed the brass to my rifle using sub standard cast bullets. I do my brass in 100 case lots and I currently have 300 cases for this rifle.
I've never lost a case to wear or splitting. I've scrunched a couple in the loading process by not paying attention.
My dies were made by Saeco, the barrel is a Douglas, chambered by Ray's Gunsmith Shop in Colo. The bullet moulds that I use are by Saeco, NEI and Lyman.
The Lyman had it's nose portion lapped out a gnat's eyelash to give it a bit of a bore ride portion.
Jim

Jim...That sounds like a real nice rifle. I have one prewar DWM Mauser action left. What is the twist on your barrel? Do you outside turn or inside ream the necks. What is the size of your expander ball used for cast? Thanks.
Best Regards, James

Sounds as if James is gettin' the itch for a 375 Whelen. Then he'll train them bulldogs to line the hogs up side by side to get a 2 for one shot.:)

At my age I need to train them to pull me in a wagon...It's got to where I can't run but about a mile in the swamps anymore! Oh well..............! I know you believe that.
I am concerned with the OAL with cast bullets in the .375 as you all know the Mauser is a great action, but the mag box is short. Some people cut it out under the feed ramp, but I will not. I also got to thinking about a Remington 7600 action. Sonnie Youngblood has a .35 Whelen in one and it shoots like a house afire. Howard, over at A.W.Peterson Gun shop is rebarreling and rechambering the 7600's into some interesting rifles. Then nothing would have to be changed except the barrel and a chambering job. Just what I need....Another rifle! Heck..talking about shooting through two hogs, I not so sure this little Marlin would not do it!
Best Regards, James

The cases are outside neck turned on a Forester,,,I think that's the name.
I use a Lyman M die for 375. I chucked the expander into a power drill and used crocus cloth to polish it down to glass smooth.
Jim

Would an old Belgian Browning BAR in 30-06 make a likely prospect for converting to .375 whelan?  Would cast bullets work in the automatic action?

Eric

Jim, I have the small tool, including the outside neck turner. I'm doing the same with .30-06 Springfield, except I wanted the ID @ .309" for .310" BTB cast so I use the expander ball from my 7.62x39mm Russian die.I should break down and get an "M" for that size.
Eric..I really don't know what would be involved in rebarreling a Browning BAR. I have good luck with thr Ruger No1 and a custom Mauser in .30-06. I understand that there are problems with lead going into the gas cylinder of the gas autos. If it's an early BAR in .30-06 you might work up a good trade and work at thr A.W.Peterson Gun Shop, Mt. Dora, Florida. Howard, the gunsmith, has done some nice work for me, but slow! I'm sure Marshall or one of the others members could give you fact on cast in the gas auto. What do you think Jim and Marshall?
Best Regards,James

I shot a bit of cast in my old M1 Garand. Great loads in other rifles that never leaded. In the gas piston of the Garand, don't ask... :sad:

I'm using a Mark X action. I'm not sure if the magazine box is longer then normal, but the long nosed 300 grain NEI bullets sure leave a lot hanging out of the case.
The bullet has a bore riding ring up at the nose and .380 driving bands at the back.
The cartridge functions wonderfully through the action.
Jim

Hi , I would be a little leery of 375 whelen on the 7600 rifle according to the shop guys at Remungton. I was interested in a similar project about a year ago and called Remington and talked with guys who work in the custom shop and was told that where the barrel goes into the reciever would be too thin after openung up to .375 caliber . Basaed on their oppinions and their oppinions alone I GUESS the 35 whelen is tops for the 7600. I guess!!!, Craig

Well Fellas, Have you ever heard of the factory boys ever saying anything *good about something like a wildcat that they don't build? Another odd thing about their statement about thin barrel and reciever with the .375 Whelen on the 7600...the case is the same, except the bullet, as the .35 Whelen!!!!!!! You figure that one out!
Best Regards, James

(Edited by James Gates at 10:34 pm on April 22, 2001)

HI, I agree completely! Just what I was told . I wonder if they could have been implying that with a factory contour on the barrel that the walls of the barrel would be too thin? I am like you doesn,t seem to make much sense ! ya know the older I get the more I dont believe anything I hear and only about half of what I see!!
       Have a good day , Craig

Craig....Now you are getting the right attitude. As I worked for the gun companies, I can tell you first hand that their policy is "sell what you make and to #### with the rest!!!" The 7600 series is an exremelly strong setup. I can't beleive that .018" is going to makw a bit of difference since the pressure behind the .375" bullet will be less.
It's the same old sing song!!!
Best Regards, James

The guys at Remington might be concerned with the depth of the sight holes already drilled in the barrel. Just get a lever gun (mod 71) and rebarrel or rebore to 375 alaskan or 35/348 Ackley and keep adding powder. You will be amazed, I've run 250 grain Hornadys over 2700 fps in my 35/348. Probably high pressure but the action opened easily. No I don't use that load, it's not needed and the bullets work better at 2500. Maybe get a 50 Alaskan and let the bullet do the work. Not a fan of anything Remington makes, least of all that new plastic "rifle" that they are blow molding.

Craig....Now you are getting the right attitude. As I worked for the gun companies, I can tell you first hand that their policy is "sell what you make and to #### with the rest!!!" The 7600 series is an exremelly strong setup. I can't beleive that .018" is going to makw a bit of difference since the pressure behind the .375" bullet will be less.
It's the same old sing song!!!
Best Regards, James
I know I'm 6 years ++ behind this thread...BUT..LOL
I build a .375X284 on a Czech Mil Mauser. Since it has about the same case capacity of the 06 and you have plenty of shoulder left for headspacing!! YES, I know, that that is a sore subject!! I'm using 300grain Win Silvertip and when Win stopped selling them, I went to all the Gun stores I could reach and bought all the bullets up. NO Internet at the time...LOL...
The bullet has two groves and I use the one close to the heal to crimp. That seats the heal about even with the neck.
I's the only gun I take for moose. With a 2 1/2 Weaver Scope it's the best rig for our heavily wooded area! (..well... except for the clearcuts...)

Sorry forgot... the OAL is shorter then the 06 and will feed in the magazine box.