Has anyone else sighted or seen evidence of mountain lions here in Pennsylvania? I saw fresh tracks in 1995 in Chester county (West), on a farm I was hunting on. Property owner had told us a mother had been around with her grown cub since late spring. In 1996 I saw a dead coyote that had been dragged up a 45' fir tree and stashed. That was in Bradford county. Locals there said they'd seen a mountain lion several times over the course of that year. Just wondering if anyone else has seen tracks or sign. Or the big cats themselves.

Further update on this. Just spoke with a former DNR biologist yesterday, they sighted a Mt. lion in Lancaster cnty last month. Took pictures, (poor quality), but good pics of the tracks. Unfortunately I can't get any copies.

Funny how the state says there's none here....

I've heard one has been sighted numerous times in southern Northumberland County. A friend saw one during last deer season, right down to the long, heavy tail. Wasn't a bobcat, that's for sure.
Game Commission says there are none. The question is do you trust anything the PGC states as fact?

I've got no problem with them being here if they are naturally expanding their range, but I don't don't want the Fed introducing them. Especially after reading about the wolf troubles in Idaho. Some states, (Vermont difinately), that placed their cougars on the endangered/not present/not viable list, never stopped having them. It was simply too difficult to monitor such a small fauna population. So IMHO, these sightings we have here in PA are probably native cougar, that simply were overlooked by the Game Commission.

Would like others to share their opinions, too.

A few ponderings that may or may not be relevent.

Sightings have been around for over 50 years. My father made a plaster cast of a track of one he claimed to have seen in the mid or late 1950s. He said he regreted not shooting one of the 2 he claims to have seen at different times to prove they were there. The plaster cast was verified to be of a track of a large cat.

The PA DNR later added them to the list of protected species.
The Eastern subspecies is listed as an endangered species.
Environmentalists try to get the food of endangered species protected as well as the species itself.

The PA DNR claims the deer herd is too big and is in the process of decimating it with an excessive antlerless harvest.

Some dead specimens have been sporadically found since that time. The DNR consistently calls them escaped pets.

During my last trip to PA this spring I heard of several recent sightings in east central PA.

Twenty five years ago I was involved in a baseline ecological survey for a mining company interested in opening a large coal mine on BLM land in a Western (Rocky Mountain) state (not Colorado). One concern was whether there might be endangered species in the area which could cause problems in getting the needed environmental permits from the EPA etc. We talked to the state DNR biologist to find out if he knew of any endangered species in the proposed project area. He said there were none known to be in the area we were evaluating. But, he mentioned he knew of several breeding pairs of Peregrine Falcons (then highly endangered) in other areas which did not officially exist. He then said that if he recorded their existence the endangered species paperwork would overwelm his office.

My conclusion is that it is not only the federal government that has secrets not relevent to National Security

Irv- That was the point I was getting at, you articulated it better though! :) I mentioned VT just for that reason, I had read an article about how there were confirmed cougar sightings in VT every decade since 1880(?), when they were declared gone. These state game resource managers know they're there, but won't admit it.

That, "escaped pet" story is the one they always tell. :rolleyes:

Irv- That was the point I was getting at, you articulated it better though! :) I mentioned VT just for that reason, I had read an article about how there were confirmed cougar sightings in VT every decade since 1880(?), when they were declared gone. These state game resource managers know they're there, but won't admit it.

That, "escaped pet" story is the one they always tell. :rolleyes:

I don't blame the regional biologists or wardens, most of whom are hard working and do an excellent job. I blame the higher level bureaucrats who are usually political appointees, not qualified biologists, and subject to political pressure.

When Colorado lost the spring hunting, baiting, and dog hunting of black bear a few years ago, the state wildlife biologists were under a gag order (state employees may not express opinions on ballot measures) not to say that the proposed state constitutional amendment would not benefit the bears.

When I was being trained as a biologist 40 years ago, it was accepted that a species did not exist unless a carcass was in hand. For mammalogists (I still have my lifetime membership in The American Society of Mammalogists) the evidence was preferably a skull.

Since the advances in genetics allowing identification via DNA analysis, it should not be too difficult to get evidence to compare the cats being sighted with DNA from museum specimens of the Eastern subspecies and with that of the Western subspecies (from which pets would have descended) without sacrificing the animal if it were to be an endangered subspecies.

Capturing animals that are sighted in the East should not be that difficult with a good pack of lion hounds. Cats accused of killing humans in the west are routinely captured with the use of dogs. However, because of the "environmental activists", it may sometimes be better for an animal if it doesn't "offficially" exist.

Take it for what it is worth, but I have a customer who has a friend who was driving one day and saw a bunch of PGC vehicles, so he decided to stop and see what was up, he was kept at a distance and told that they were releasing a nusiance bear, so he left and went down a side road with a view of the field where they were working, he took his binoculars and watched them release a mountain lion from the cage in the back of the truck. I have also hear stories of guys that have shot coyotes and found tags in the ear directing them to call a certain number to report the kill, and the numbers are for various insurance co. I have also heard that the PGC trades wild turkeys for Coyotes with some of the western states like Wyoming

Former friend of mine killed a 60 lb. coyote in Bradford Cnty. that was radio collared. He shorted out the transmitter before returning it to the state PGC with a nasty letter informing them not to release any more. I don't think they listened. :D
Coyote made a nice mount though.

In the version I heard, the coyotes imported from Wyoming were in dog cages in a cattle truck being repaired at a garage near I80. Why Wyoming would trade coyotes for Eastern Wild Turkeys when they have plenty of Meriam's Wild Turkeys is puzzling - perhaps someone from Wyoming can verify that they are introducing the Eastern subspecies. I can understand why they would trade coyotes for a more desirable species - they would probably also trade prairie dogs to get rid of them (hopefully PA wouldn't take them as I have enough problem with woodchucks digging under my building foundations, but they would be an additional food supply for the coyotes).

The ear tag in the story I heard was supposedly from the Vermont Wildlife Department.

Coyotes were abundant (and considered a trophy) in New York before they were common in Pennsylvania. They are a very prolific and adaptable species, so it is possible that they immigrated and that introduction was not necessary.

Relocating coyotes? Talk about a complete waste of money.... they have spread all over the continent, anyway....

One of the more adaptable critters around.

I'd tend to go along with the natural migration theory, rather than the G&F importing them. As a Westerner, my reactions is - who in their everlovin' right mind would import and turn loose coyotes???? Talk about reducing the small game and big game!

We have had 2 recent sightings in NW New Jersey...both from reliable and trustworthy people. The local police won't deny that it was in fact mt.lions that were seen.
The rumor around here is that 6 females were released into a state park to control the deer population where hunting wasn't allowed around 20 yrs ago. At least 2 dozen sightings a year have been the average since then, and now reports of cubs being seen with their mothers are making the papers. Wonder how 6 females alone can reproduce? I thought I saw one about 3 yrs ago crossing the road at night, but wasn't 100% sure... but it sure did look to be one!! All I know is that they are listed as rare in NJ by the Div of Fish and Wildlife which to me translates into they exist here.

whizzum

We have had 2 recent sightings in NW New Jersey...both from reliable and trustworthy people. The local police won't deny that it was in fact mt.lions that were seen.
The rumor around here is that 6 females were released into a state park to control the deer population where hunting wasn't allowed around 20 yrs ago. At least 2 dozen sightings a year have been the average since then, and now reports of cubs being seen with their mothers are making the papers. Wonder how 6 females alone can reproduce? I thought I saw one about 3 yrs ago crossing the road at night, but wasn't 100% sure... but it sure did look to be one!! All I know is that they are listed as rare in NJ by the Div of Fish and Wildlife which to me translates into they exist here.

whizzum

I live in central PA and I haven't seen any or any evidence but I have heard recently of people seeing tracks. of course, officials say there are none.

Where in Central PA are you from, Borak?

Where in Central PA are you from, Borak?

Newport.
I see your location is listed as South Central PA. Where are you from?

Near Mt. Holly Springs, were practically neighbors (at least compared to most of the other people here at shootersforum)

Hay guys, be glad to trade you some of our Idaho wolves for coyotes, turkeys, hamsters? We may have a few big cats you could use also. Probably could find some males for those females in NJ, though you got to take a few wolves with each one.

Hopefully they'd migrate to DC and even better start eating politicians. Probably starve to death though knowing what most of the politicians are made of.

Right on Bob! Maybe if all these critters were running about D.C. Hmm :rolleyes: anybody got a cattle truck and some dog cages??

I'm glad we don't have wolves or grizzly bears here in CO. Wait, what was that? Must have been the neighbor's dog howling again.

That's got to be the biggest pile of ground up choke cherries I've ever seen. Holy cow would you look at the size of that paw print!!! Black bears must get big here in CO :rolleyes:

It's only a matter of time before those critters are mysteriously appearing here too. You can't tell me that the CODOW hasn't toyed with the idea. They have to find something to waste the money on they got from raising the cost of elk tags to $45


RJ

Aman Recoil