Hi my first thread. I own a Winchester 94 Timber Carbine in 444 Marlin. I sold all of my reloading equipment bout 5 years ago do to other addictions which were shall we say not as benefical and satisfying as reloading and bullet casting which I used to enjoy immensely. Sold all my guns too. Well I,ve come a long way in that five years and have replaced a few of the thngs thtat were most dear to me like my redhawk 44 and a new addition the winchester 444 carbine which I would like to cast and handload ammunition for. I love heavy big bore ammo and am considering buying moulds for a WFN- GC bullet around 350 grains or so which can be used I hope in the carbine as well as the Redhawk. Three questions. Any problems to look for as far as smooth cycling of the round in the carbine. Also rate of twist in the 444 Winchester Carbine is 1 in 38"with a barrel length of 17.5". Will this do a good job of stablizing a 350 grain WFN. And last but certainly not least what can I do to make sure I get no bullet creep with such a heavy bullet loaded to it's full potential. Do I need to speacial order a sizing die to make sure I get a real snug fit as far as bullet to case is concerned. Forgive me if some of my terminoligy is a little off. I'm self taught and don't talk to other reloaders much but I do load quality ammunition. At least I will as soon as I replace my old Dillon RL 550. Got one on layaway as we speak. Very much looking forward to getting back into casting and reloading. Any response would be greatly appreciated. I want to make sure I load the 444 Marlin correctly. It deserves that respect. WOW what a cartridge. Ihave only fired the Remington 240 gr softpoint. Am really looking forward to casting and loading some heavier and more dynamic rounds in it and my Redhawk Thanks alot Tom,

I think the twist rate is faster than 1 in 38. I own one also and think it's around 1 in 20. They are sensitive to overall length of the cartridge so you may have to choose your bullets carefully. I have a couple of favorites that will require that I shorten the brass a little bit to ensure that they'll cycle through the action. On the plus side, it's a great firearm. I wouldn't trade mine for anything. I've fired several boxes of factory ammo through it, but prefer handloads. I'm experimenting with bullets in the 265 to 325 grain range. Ranch Dog has a bullet he's designed that a bunch of us recently purchased on the Cast Boolits web site as a group buy from Lee. It's a 265 grain tumble lube bullet he designed specifically for the 444. Moulds are coming out in the mail this week after a three month wait for Lee Precision to catch up with their special orders. The Hornady 265 grain flat tip was designed for the 444 and is wonderfully accurate from this gun. I've shot a couple of hundred of them and would stay with them except for the cost ($26 per hundred locally)

Anyway, welcome to the board. Make sure you navigate over to the Tech Notes section and read the three articles on the 444. They will provide a wealth of information on this great cartridge.

Thanks for the reply, I love the little Winchester also. Your comments are helpful. As far as twist rate which I need to learn more about and how it relates to bullet accuracy and stabilization, the specifications which came with my rifle do state. that the twist rate is 1 in 38". Anyway thanks again for the reply. Thanks Tom, Oh thanks for the tip on the tech notes.

Welcome.

The twist rate should be pretty obvious on a 17.5" barrel - a 1-20" will nearly make a full circle, a 1-38" won't even make half.

I think Marlin was the only manufacturer to stick with 1-38", but you never know.

A 1-20" should have no problem with a 350gr. bullet in the .444.

As obvious as a 1 in 20 twist rate may seem the fact of the matter is the twist rate is 1 in 38 according to Winchester. Thanks for the input. Tom

Mine shoots 310gr cast accurately. Don't know about heavier. 290 - 310gr is about as stout as I would want.

Threads from back in the 2001 era indicated there were two different twists for the Winchesters. Some shooters had a slow twist and others like me claimed to have a faster twist.
My Winchester handles the 310 grain Lee bullet very well. Best powders include both 4198's, Hodgdons Benchmark and 322. The .444 is an easy cartridge to load accurate ammunition for. The Lee factory crimp die is a real plus in this cartridge because I work with compressed powder charges. The factory crimp die works well when seating the 310 grain Lee below the crimp groove.
In the Winchester you must shorten your COAL as the cartridge when loaded with bullets having a wide meplat will not make the turn from the loading gate into the magazine.
If your cartridges are too long you can open the action but not raise the carrier. Lay cartridge on the carrier and chamber another. Close the action and you will push the round on the carrier into the magazine and have one round in the chamber, making it a "two shooter."
Some people had quality issues with the Timber rifle when it was in production but I have had no problems with mine and I have shot it quite a bit with heavy bullets at high pressure. You will see quite a bit of discussion on the Timber rifle on the Big Bore forum in the 2001 time frame.


Here are a few links to get you started with the search function on the forums. Dont forget to check Load Swap.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=1850&highlight=lee+310

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=9465&highlight=timber+rifle

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=2011&highlight=lee+310

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=1830&highlight=lee+310

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=2035&highlight=lee+310

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=1957&highlight=lee+310

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=1859&highlight=lee+310

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=15942&highlight=timber+rifle

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=5211&highlight=lee+310

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=1981&highlight=lee+310

The only way to know for a certainty what twist your barrel has is to measure it yourself.

Manufacturer's information is not always correct.

Also, you might want to see Marshall's articles on the .444 Marlin cartridge, in the tech notes. Some good information on what will stabilize in the slow-twist barrels.... think he go to 330gr. bullets before the 1-38" ran out of gas.

Have fun.....