It has been alluded to and talked about in other threads. Can one of you fellows, smarter and more educated than I, please explain why nine times out of ten, the good group will NOT be centered?

Is it related to the bullet repelling properties of the center of the target or is it a whole other physical law?

A case in point, todays two targets with the .44

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k191/KGKILBY/Targets002.jpg

Couple of thoughts.

1. It may well be centered. If you were to keep shooting, say 50 rounds at the same target, that group might be dead-center of that 50 round group. ANY 5 rounds of that 50 rounds might be located anywhere inside the total area.

2. Might be that your hold changed. We tend to load 5, shoot 5, then take a peek. Next time at bad, may be hodling a tad differently. Esp. as the day wears on (even though we all know consistancy is the key..a long break between strings makes it difficult to be just lkie we wee 45 min. agowhen we last shot).
------

Ever watch a guy chace his target around in a circle? I've done it.

We start out with our last sight setting, which was dead on. Our first group is good, but off a bit to the left. We adjust the scope...shoot some more..make an adjustment...shoot...adjust...and DARNED if at the end of 10 or 15 rounds we aren't right back at the same sight setting at which we started (but now it's dead on just like it was supose to be).

I'm guessing that is related to #2 above...somehow it takes some of us a few rounds to pound ourselves into that goove.

Ribbonstone, you are without doubt correct. The target on the right reflects the true accuracy of the rifle and the shooter.

I still suspect it may be some kind of magic that keeps those occasional, much better, groups off the center. :D

Ken:

Lets hope I don't win the lottery.

One of my evil plans is as follows:

Set up at 100yards a target frame mounted with fast servo motors.

Set up at 25 and 50 yards are sensors that detect the bullets exact location (which isn't all that hard to do in 2D).

Fire through sensors....dectors mark the bullets location...signal to servos...a little fast processing could not only locate the bullet, but could predict the effects of wind...servos move target to intersect the bullet at 100 yards. Even if you TRY to shoot to the four corners, will still make a one-hole group (if the wind don't shift).

Call it "The Gun-Magazine Writter's Truthifier Target".

Ken,

What ribbonstone said.

About shooting groups, I never shoot a 5 shot group. Maybe try a three shot group,then spot, if the three are not where you want, come off that target and shoot a new one. Why, you can not improve a bad three shot group, by adding two more shots in it..It will only get worse..

Shots 4 and 5 into a good 3 shot group, as we all know, are the ones that separate the winners and those that dont..

Danny

It is due to the magnetic forces. The bulls eye will repell the bullets much like trying to put two magnets together ;)

I have noticed over the last few matches that my point of impact may shift slightly depending on the light. I could be totally wrong but it has been my experience that my POI can change depending on how the light is on the front sight. I have found that my groups are usually better on overcast days. If I spend several hours out shooting on a sunny day and the sun hits the front sight at different angles my POI does change beit ever so slightly, but in RD's match ever so slightly makes a difference. It is not enough to make one bit of difference hunting.

It's a cruel old world out there fellers. :(
The 32-20 at 100 yards.
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k191/KGKILBY/32-20Target002.jpg

Sunspots, global warming and corealus affect...you need to adjust the fifth shot for these variables.

Dan

Funny...I had several targets just like that this weekend and a couple tonight :mad:

It just wasn't my day. Today was the coolest day we have had in weeks only 87 when I got out of work and over cast. I got home, changed cloths, got my stuff together and headed out to shoot.

Our "range" is in a friends pasture. We have a pond dam as a back stop and post at 50 yards and a target board at 100. I have a politician sign frame that I use for my 50 yard targets...Politicians are good for something. I got out and got my targets up. The cows were back behind the pond when I got there and started shooting. Didn't take but about five shots and they had to come check out what was going on. Soon they were between me and the target board so I went down and moved them off to the side. That lasted for one shot and back they came. After about 25 min of my shooting time was gone they were finally out of the way. There was a storm brewing off to the west, I could hear the the thunder and it was getting closer. I got two targets shot, before the lightning forced and end to the shooting. (I was struck by lightning at age 14, and it is something I have never forgotten, and I don't mess with. It lightnings and I get my six anywhere but out side!!) I got my stuff picked up and headed home. Made it before the down pour. We need the rain bad so I'm not complaining about the rain. It was just the timing of everything on the one nice day to shoot in over a month......Oh well, it is an excuse to go back out and shoot :rolleyes:

Thanks Ken. I needed that this morning.

Seriously, there has got to be a gremlin with some of these rifles bedding. When you see the same thing over and over from shooters with demonstrated ability and accurate rifles something is going on.

Look at the targets I have posted above. They are all pretty typical; when I get a flier from the .44 I know it was me. I am confident I could run a hundred straight into two inches or less at fifty yards with it.

The 32-20 on the other hand is occasionally more accurate but is extremely inconsistent. One or two fliers per ten shots is the norm. It has been a long time since my statistics classes but I believe that if only 80 to 90 percent of your shots are good it is going to take a few five shot strings to get a good one.

The thing that is really bad about the 32-20 is that the first shot out of a cold barrel is always a flier. It doesn't matter if it is clean or fouled. In fact, if it sits more than five minutes from the last shot, the next shot is going to be wild, every time.

I have tinkered with the forearm and magazine tube fit on both of these rifles with varying degrees of success. McPherson is very adamant about the benefits of putting a through bolt in the butt stock. I keep wondering if this is the key.

Try only loading one shell at a time if your only punching paper. The weight of your mag. will be the same each time and since it is fastened to the barrel, the harmonics of your barrel will be more consistant. I do this with every rifle I own if I am working up a load or shooting for group. Give it a try.

What is this "magazine" you speak of? :D

Just kidding, I think I have put shells in the magazine of my .44 twice and once in the 32-20, just to see if it worked.

I don't know if it helps or hurts, it's just a whole lot easier to drop them in one at a time when I'm shooting off the bench.

Here is a tip, bad mouth your rifle on the internet and see if it won't try to make amends. I put the iron sights back on the 32-20 and shot this target just now.

Rowdy is safe for another day but just barely. :D

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k191/KGKILBY/32-20004.jpg

Were the other groups with iron sights or scoped? Looks like your doing good now. Good shootin.

I'm just not bad mouthing my rifle enough :eek: ;)

Arrrgg- I found the problem today, after all this time.

Its the STAPLE GUNS fault...Got back from the range today, took the staple gun an thru it out in the ally , got in the truck drove back and forth over it..Went and picked it up, wasn,t good enought, took it in the shop and introduced it to Mr. Anvil and Mr. 3# Hammer...

Never again will that POS staple gun hang my targets in the wrong place on the backboard...

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/Rowdy_444/8-24-2006.jpg

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/Rowdy_444/2-24-2006-2.jpg

Danny

I got a big improvement on my group size by changing from 1/4" to 3/8" staples. Shame you didn't try that before you took it out on the stapler.

Never thought about it....but it could be the masking tape I'm using to tape up my targets :rolleyes:

That's what I use and you have seen the results. Time for a change.

Things are not always as they seem. I tried some H-322 loads in the 32-20 and my wild first shot problem disapearred. Shot 18 straight good ones yesterday before my eyes gave out.

I can taste that sub 3/8" score in the open sight match. :D

Wow - My my new stapler works great .....

Danny

That tears it!!!!! I'm going to Westlake Hdwe tonight. ;)

Dave :cool:

KenK,

After today, 3/8 is not small enough, dream smaller my friend, much much smaller .....

I was hoping that electrical tape would come unraveled before it came to this. :D

lol - It already has, im now using your plan "B" the ol tubeing idea ..:)~

So, want to see a pic of what your up against.....

OK i just got to show it..

I know i'm gloating, and some will call me a braggart, here she is.....

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k114/Rowdy_444/100_1888.jpg

Danny :)