Hi guys I've been reading the serial number chart on Browning's website, but am more confused now than ever. What I found underneath the reicever is "6V" and below that is a 6 digit number begining with 85. It's Belium made according to the barrel. 12 ga magnum vent rib with the round ball grip on the stock. Can someone decode the serial number? Also, what is the significance of the ball grip?

Thank in advance,
Aaron

AaronH
Your looks to be a 1958-67 model (85) as first two digets of the serial. As far as the ball grip -it was quite common on the European version where as the American version didn't have it! Mine is a 1952 F.N model 12 ga Mag. Beautiful firearm enjoy!

I'll break it down for you Aaron:

6V - 6 meaning 1966, the year your gun was made.
"V" is the product ID code, in your case, 12ga Mag

The number following it is the actual serial number of the gun.

The ball or round knob grip is just the style of the day.


Browning serial #s (on A5s amoung others) are confusing and were oft changed due to several global and corporate influences. The whole thing goes a little something like this:

The first A5s became availble to the US sportsman around 1920 or so. They were available in 12ga only until 1925 when the 16ga came out. In 1937, the Sweet 16 hit the shelves. Round about WWII, Remington started making model 11s as Belgium was under German occupation. Model 11s are worth about half what A5s are (at best) and the parts are not interchangeable. Back to A5s...in about 1953, Browning brought about "product ID codes" that consisted basically of a letter before a #. Such as G38000, meaning standard (might be light) 12ga and then the #.

Things got a little more streamline in '58 when they went to the #letter# system. Of course, nobody thought what would happen when they got to 1968 (sort of like the Y2K scare). So from 1958-67, you will see a # that stands for the last digit of the year (in your case 6 meaning 1966), then a letter that IDs what gauge and model the gun is (G for light 12, V for Mag 12, S for Sweet 16 etc etc) and then the actual serial #.

In 1968, a few things happened. First, the # before the letter became a two digit #, for example 68V 38000, and for the most part, round knobs went away for one reason or another. This system stayed in use until about 1974 when Browning moved its production to Japan and streamlined the serial system to the one that remains in place today.

Currently (this goes for any browning now made) you can figure out its story by using this little code. You will see a three digit ID code, followed by two letters and then the serial #. On some models however, you will see the serial # first, then two letters followed by the three dig ID code.

I cannot remember which but the code before the letters means it was made in I think Japan and the code after the letters means it was made at the other factory which I think is in Belgium still...might be US I can't remember.

Anyway, you can check it all out on Brownings' website just incase you aren't completely confused by now.

Andy

Thanks guys for the input. That helped a lot. I was confused by Brownings list because they make no mention of the letter designation for Mag. Apparently it's "V". Yay for me! I don't understand why Browning's website doesn't break down the serial numbers better/further. Maybe even they can't keep their serial number history straight. Andy, you also answered two other questions for me; when they switched over to Japan manufacture and when the round knob ceased. I was kinda curious about that.

Another question I have is about something I read over on gunsandammomag.com. In May of this year a reader wrote in asking the value for his A5. From his description it appears to be one of the first 10,000 produced. They only valued it at $525-700. It seems to me that the first 10,000 units would be the holy grail of A5's. The value they gave is basically what I see on the price tags on the gun store racks. Seems like the lowballed him to me. Are they afraid to stick a high number on it without seeing it or am I just giving too much value to one of the first few? They even state "These first-year A-5s are seldom encountered in the U.S., and to have one in excellent condition is even more unusual." Seems like a cue right there to me???

Another question I have is about something I read over on gunsandammomag.com. In May of this year a reader wrote in asking the value for his A5. From his description it appears to be one of the first 10,000 produced. They only valued it at $525-700. It seems to me that the first 10,000 units would be the holy grail of A5's. The value they gave is basically what I see on the price tags on the gun store racks. Seems like the lowballed him to me. Are they afraid to stick a high number on it without seeing it or am I just giving too much value to one of the first few? They even state "These first-year A-5s are seldom encountered in the U.S., and to have one in excellent condition is even more unusual." Seems like a cue right there to me???


Worth is a relative term.

In my gunshop, we have a little saying that relates to worth vs. price:

"There's an *** for every seat."

We acctually stole it from a used car dealer, but its the truth. Worth is what someone will pay for it. I am sure you could convince someone that it is worth a couple of grand. But point of fact is, it isn't.

Everyone has some crazy idea that A5s are worth some God-awful pile of money. To be honest, they really aren't. Most 12 ga in 2 3/4" in good condition are worth at best $750, even Belgian ones, which while they are more collectable, are not as good as the Jap guns. Their worth is especially low today when comepared to other firearms of their time. Look at Winchester Model 12s for example. They are priced about the same as the A5s, and they are pump guns! And nevermind the Winchester 21s!

There are a few things that make A5s worth a lot of money:

1) Location of saftey: Push button is preferable
2) Barrel: Vent first, solid second, plain third
3) Chamber: 3" first, 2 3/4" second, 2 1/2 (or 2 9/16s) third
4) Proper LOP and butt plate
5) No crack in the forearm (first thing I look for)
6) Matching barrel and receiver
7) Cutts and Poly chokes KILL value


The most you can realistically expect from a standard off the shelf A5 (a few minor cases not withstanding) is about $2000. That would be for a Sweet Sixteen, NIB, never seen the light of day, made sometime after WWII and before production went to the land of the Rising Sun. Must have vent rib, slide saftey and preferably NOT a full choke.


A major factor in gun value, with regards to older guns, is knowing the history behind it.

For example, an old gentleman who works in our shop used to work for a gun shop downtown that is now long gone. He had a gentlman respond to an add in the paper in about 1975, the ad read:

COLT REVOLVER $50 270-xxxx (no I don't know the number)

So this guy (who really didn't know squat about guns), goes and buys the gun and brings it by the shop. Out of a shoe box he pulls a single action Army Colt that was in pretty darn good shape. Now a good condition, 1st generation SAA is worth anywhere from $3000 to $15000. Not bad for a $50 investment. But it gets better. They sent the serial # to Colt for a history of the firearm. Low and behold....the gun was made for one Mr. Bat Masterson. At this point, the gun that was worth about $15000, can now be traded for a penthouse in West Palm Beach, and the Aston Martin in the garage. The gun, to my knowledge, is now in the National Firearms Museum.

For a more pratical example, I'll use my oldest A5.

The 16ga was first made in 1925. The one I have was made in 1926. It has about 10 boxes of shells through it. It is, no kidding 98%. The engraving still has burrs on it like it is hot out of the factory. The gun itself is worth about $1000. However, I acctually have the original bill of sale and price tag from this gun (and I thought I got a deal when I bought it...) I am only the second owner, and having this information makes it worth closer to $1500. Which is nice to know, especially when I am shooting ducks with it (I know I ought to be shot, its like taking tequilla shots from the Holy Grail).

I hear ya. There's a lot of A5's out there. What gun shop doesn't have at least one on the shelf. My point was about that particular one being part of the first 10,000 units. Why would they stick a price tag on it equal to or less than a later model? Is it just that the quality wasn't there in the first run that no one gives a hoot that it's an early one? Seems to me being only one of 10,000 would make it worth a bit more? I doubt I will ever see one of those 10K guns in my life, let alone find one for sale. I'm not saying every A5 should fetch a pretty penny, but wouldn't the first run be a bit higher? Just my thinking.

I have seen two A5's from the original order of 10,000 12 ga guns sell in the last month, one for less than$300 and the other for less than $500.

The reason is that there are a lot more A5's than collectors of A5's About 2.5 million were made. Even though most were used hard and badly worn there are still lots around. And even a few more sellers than buyers drives down the price on any discressionary purchase...And think about the fact that the initial order was larger than a decade of production at many good gun companies...

Some of the facts shared in this string are wrong,

The original 10,000 gun order was placed with FN in 1903 and by the end of 1904 Browning had cut a side deal giving Remington exclusive rights to the north American market cutting FN out of North America from 1904 until 1923. So FN made A5's for other markets until 1923 when they started importing them to the US with Brownings name ion them.

They continued to supply the US (except for during the German ocupation of Belgium) through the move to Japan.

FN started making 16ga A5's in 1909, so they were immediately available when importing resumed in 1923.

Most models of A5 can be had in good usable condition for under $500, and smart buyers find nice ones for less. here is a link to pics of two that I picked up for less than $600 combined, and a little sweat equity made nice looking guns out of them.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jeffmulliken/detail?.dir=40abre2&.dnm=5664re2.jpg&.src=ph

Buy then to play with they are wonderful, but dont look to make money unless you can find a closet full of Sweet sixteens and a seller that knows nothing.

Jeff

Also, those older guns are just so plain. The only thing you would be getting by buying one would be a number. I would much rather spend my money on a gun that had nicer wood and engravings than a low serial #. Unless, as mentioned above, that you have documentation of the complete history of the gun that ties it some unique person or event.

I've got my grandfather's A5 # 4,925. He bought right after WWII to hunt dove and quail. I used in high school in the 80's to duck hunt. Now, about all I do is shoot skeet/trap with it occasionally.

It's a great shooting gun but I don't really consider it worth any more than my dad's A5 that was made in the early 60's.

Nice lookin' pair of A-5's Jeff, wonderful wood on the round knob and the straight grip is something I've never seen before.
I managed to pick mine up (read stole it) for $125 from a dealer who had no idea what he was trying to peddle. Like you said, a little sweat can turn out a fine peice.

The plain ones are actually kind of neat to flesh out a collection at a low cost. But I agree that if your going to own just one A5 that a little later gun makes more sense.

The cross block safety is a big improvement added in '51 and the speed oad feature is a gimmick but cool and it was added in '53. So for one gun as an all around shooter I'd look for a post '53 gun.

Jeff

I guess I'm an A5 finatic ! I just love mine -Mag 12 and Sweet 16 just acquired from my dad. Both have seen plenty of use (read great hunting)! Of the two I like the 16 as it is very nice to carry and shoot's like a dream! I have shot many different shotguns (auto's , pumps, singles , doubles etc.) I would trade these A5's for anyone of them!