Lets say you are hunting elk with the following limits... Under 100yds and limiting the shot angle to broadside and slightly quartering away; bowhunting angles. Under these circumstances, does a hardcast slug of 425gr. @ 1000fps have an advantage over hardcast slug of 300gr. @1150fps???

Thanks for your input,

Jim

The .475 will always have the advantage of larger wound channel, but to be real world practical, no I don't think you'd have any difference. I have never shot game with any .475, although I have shot my uncle's Wildey auto and I was not impressed with it. I have used .45 calibers a lot through the years and have nothing but respect and admiration for how hard they hit when shooting game. I have had noticably better results from a 325 gr .452 cast bullets versus 300 gr .429 on game (including elk), so will lean to the larger and heavier slug. In these circumstances, velocity only counts in ensuring complete penetration. Also, with cast slugs from handguns I shoot front shoulders always. Truth be told, I shoot front shoulder on elk with most everything.

Idoc

The 475 would be better. However, the 45 Colt is cheaper, easier to come by, and recoil is more managable. Also, you have more options on bullet design and can use the same gun for plinking and practice without breaking the bank.

But yes, the 475 is a better performer. Then again, the 500 is better ect...

Just something to consider. In a phone conversation with John Linebaugh, He told me he and his wife both hunt with .45 Colt revolvers. Just a thought.

Lets say you are hunting elk with the following limits... Under 100yds and limiting the shot angle to broadside and slightly quartering away; bowhunting angles. Under these circumstances, does a hardcast slug of 425gr. @ 1000fps have an advantage over hardcast slug of 300gr. @1150fps???

Thanks for your input,

Jim
I've used the .475 Linebaugh on bull Elk, as well as Bison, Argentine Water Buffalo, several large Black Bears, and a number of wild Boar. Loads have included the Speer 400, the Hornady 400 XTP and a 420 hardcast WFN bullet, at velocities between 1250 and 1400 fps. I've also used the .454 Casull with 260 and 300 gr. bullets at 1380 to 1725 fps, depending upon the load, on U.S. Whitetails and a great deal of African game, up through Lion. I much prefer the larger diameter, heavier bullet of the .475. There is little practical difference in trajectory in the field, under 100 yds. However, I have no experience in velocities as low as 1000-1150 fps. Nevertheless, I will stick by my choice, given the options you mention

Sure.... if you want your forehead dented :p

Now Mike you know you aint considered a Big Bore shooter unless you got the scar between your eyes!!:)

You may already know this but the 45 Colt in a Ruger Blackhawk or Bisley (I own two Bisleys in 45 Colt) can drive heavier bullets to faster velocities than you mention. I have a couple really fine big game hunting loads for my 5.5" Bisley. One of them uses the Cast Performance 335 WLNGC and 22.5 grains of Hodgdon Lil' Gun powder for a velocity of 1300 fps. The other uses the Beartooth 345 WLNGC and 21.0 grains of H110 for a velocity of 1160 fps. As Marshall Stanton has written a 335 grain or 345 grain WLNGC in 45 caliber going 1100 fps will pretty much penetrate clear through elk and bears. So I for one sure see no need for more than what the 45 Colt in a Ruger can do. Brian.

Lets say you are hunting elk with the following limits... Under 100yds and limiting the shot angle to broadside and slightly quartering away; bowhunting angles. Under these circumstances, does a hardcast slug of 425gr. @ 1000fps have an advantage over hardcast slug of 300gr. @1150fps???

Thanks for your input,

Jim

I've got to tell the truth I really don't like the Idea of a high pressure rifle cartridge headspacing on the case mouth. I think your eventually asking for trouble.

I think I would much rather have one of the Belted magnums that have a positive headspace situation. Reamers are all about the same cost and any action can have to bolt face cut from the 06 size to a magnum size. This is somewhat what Marlin did on the 450 and I really believe that is the way to go considering the trouble folks have had with the 35 and 40 Whalen cartridges that have very little to headspace on.

I hunt with a Ruger BH Bisley 7 1/2" bbl, the practice ammo is cheap and for hunting you can load it with Buffalo Bore or Cor Bon ammo and take any game in North America. I hunt feral hogs with it (big uns) and they dont walk away from my Bisley and Buffalo Bore 325 gr.

Now Mike you know you aint considered a Big Bore shooter unless you got the scar between your eyes!!:)

Gues that makes me one got 2 to show for it....

I've got to tell the truth I really don't like the Idea of a high pressure rifle cartridge headspacing on the case mouth. I think your eventually asking for trouble.

I think I would much rather have one of the Belted magnums that have a positive headspace situation. Reamers are all about the same cost and any action can have to bolt face cut from the 06 size to a magnum size. This is somewhat what Marlin did on the 450 and I really believe that is the way to go considering the trouble folks have had with the 35 and 40 Whalen cartridges that have very little to headspace on.

The revolver rounds head space on the rim of the case, and this works very well.There is nothing that the 450 Marlin can do that the 45-70 can't when loaded in the same rifle type at the same pressure level despite the fact that one head spaces on a belt and the other on the case rim. As far as head spaceing problems or concerned with the 35 or 40 cal. Whelens if the chambers are cut to the proper dimensions (and are not over sized) then there is no head spacing problems

As I understand it, penetration is a function of momentum and wound cavity is a function of kenetic energy and meplat diameter in non-expanding projectiles. Therefore the volume of the wound cavity is a product of the two (momentum * KE ) times some constant for the meplat. I've read this to be termed kenetic pulse. So the 425gr @ 1000fps has a volume product of 1780.49kp *C, and the 300gr @1150fps has a value of 1349.27kp*C.

This leads me to believe that the 425gr @ 1000fps will yield a wound cavity of some 400+ units larger than the 300gr.

In practicality, dead is dead and what does 400+ units mean in terms of cubic cemtimeters is incalculable here. It is merely a means of comparison. So, yes there is a theoretical advantage, but both would more than likely produce enough hemmoraging to kill you game at reasonable distances and good shot placement.

Lets say you are hunting elk with the following limits... Under 100yds and limiting the shot angle to broadside and slightly quartering away; bowhunting angles. Under these circumstances, does a hardcast slug of 425gr. @ 1000fps have an advantage over hardcast slug of 300gr. @1150fps???

Thanks for your input,

Jim

Here's an article that might help shed some light on that question for you.

Handgun Hunting Loads - A Critical View (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/61)

God bless,

Marshall Stanton
Agreed! That's why after beating myself with heavy loads in my 454 SRH for awhile I have now gone to milder loadings and enjoying shooting more.
Instead of 1600-1900fps I load them down to 1400-1500 which still gives me enough power to shoot out to 100-125yds scoped. I only use the full house loadings in my Rossi 454 which makes it a good 200 yd rifle! :D

Gues that makes me one got 2 to show for it....


What you mean, you didn't learn your lesson from the first one?

All kidding aside, I think .45 Colt would be my biggest caliber to own, I don't need the massive recoil of the .475 Linebaugh or the dents in my forehead :D But for right now I will stick with my .44 magnum revolvers. :rolleyes:

See http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot28.htm about using the 255-gr SWC in 45 Colt, Elmer Keith wasn't foolin when he endorsed the use of these.

Marshall sells em too.

Read this artical written by J. Marshall Stanton Handgun Hunting Loads-A Critical View (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm)

Read this artical written by J. Marshall Stanton Handgun Hunting Loads-A Critical View (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/index.htm)

Great article, read it many times... The only thing is that the article deals with whitetails and similiar sized animals. What about the tougher stuff, such as elk? Will the extra mass behind a .475 slug make a difference, or not???

Jim

No, no matter where you hit the animal, barring leg shots, you will kill it with either round. Both bullets will demolish any bones, both bullets will make a hole plenty big enough to bleed anything, and neither bullet will stop inside the animal.

The only time a 475 will help you ios the charging bear, or the 200 yard shot (that you should not be making). At 100 yards, you have more than enough with both. Just know your bullet drops.

There isn't a moose in Alaska I wouldn't shoot with my 45 Colt loaded semi-hot (say 1100 FPS 330 grain).

No, no matter where you hit the animal, barring leg shots, you will kill it with either round. Both bullets will demolish any bones, both bullets will make a hole plenty big enough to bleed anything, and neither bullet will stop inside the animal.

The only time a 475 will help you ios the charging bear, or the 200 yard shot (that you should not be making). At 100 yards, you have more than enough with both. Just know your bullet drops.



Thanks a lot for the reply... 200yds. shot???? Me? Oh no, I am more of the "20yds. shot" league!

Jim

A Beartooth 420 gr. 475 Linebaugh bullet with a meplat of .385" at 1000 fps has a permanent wound channel of 0.963". A 270 gr. Penn .45 Colt bullet with a meplat of .443" at 1150 fps has a permanent wound channel of 1.274". Now if both bullets will penetrate through both sides of an elk under all conditions, pick the one with the largest wound channel. I don't have first hand knowledge of how both of these bullets would perform in heart/lung vs shoulder shots on elk.

the 45 Colt in the BH will do a number on a deer sized critter... a bit of a story though... i was tossing some 300 grain pills heavily loaded with H110 (testing you know).... i was having a difficult time controlling the revolver so i figured (a stupid moment if you will)... i'd switch to hogue rubber grips... 2 cylinders of ammunition later and i had taken the skin right off of my right palm... it was then i realized.. duh you gotta let er roll... live and learn....

Here is a great write up with pics on Dustin Linebaugh's griz he killed in Alaske with his .475 Linebaugh

Here are some pictures of an Alaskan Grizzly taken by Dustin Linebaugh and what he had to say about it:

"Here are a few bear pics, the first 3 are of my bear the last one is of my friend Tom & his bear two days earlier. A total of 3 bears in 3 days it was a good trip. I dispatched my bear with my old tried & true .475 24 grns of H110 with a 425 grn LFN muzzle velocity of 1100fps. The distance was 176 yds standing, the bear had just sat down from standing looking straight at us. The first round centered him in the chest penatrating straight through breaking the spine then exiting. After a round of congrats he started rolling around so I put two more broad side shots on him with my pistol. He measured 8.5 ft nose to tail his weight around 800 lbs best guess. For anyone interested in such an adventure contact www.Hollidayair.com attn Terry Holliday. Feel free to pass this around to your friends that might be interested in seeing them. "

Best Regards
Dustin Linebaugh

http://www.hunt101.com/img/438275.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/img/438276.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/img/438277.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/img/438278.jpg

Now for those that have doubts about Dustin, what needs to be kept in mind is Dustin is one of the finest handgun shooters in the country and has been shooting big sixguns at long distance since he was a small boy. Ill guarantee you one thing. If you knew the guy youd know that he is the last person on earth that would show boat or take an unethical shot. If he squezzed the trigger he knew where the bullet was going. Im one that preaches against long range shooting of game because 99% of the shooters including myself arent capable making a shot like that every time we try it. But I know three people ive watched shoot that are. Dustin is one of them Jerry who was with him is probably one of the others and My buddy Al. You surely dont want to be standing 500 yards down range against any one of the three with a six gun of any kind.

I personally don't want a .475 Linebaugh but would be very happy with the .480 Ruger :D

I recall a Ross Seyfried article in which he took a .475 to Australia for 'testing' on water buffalo, hogs, etc. IIRC when he was finished he opined that it was okay but really couldn't do anything that couldn't be done with a .45 Colt +P.

Considering that Seyfried probably has more real world experience than most of us here I would be reluctant to argue the conclusion.

It seems, unfortunately, that over the years Robert Ruark's aphorism "Use enough gun." has been perverted to "Use a bigger gun". The two are not synonymous. Enough is enough.

Thanks for all the input! Although I see that I don't "need" it, the BFR 6.5" in .475 Linebaugh is on layaway. My cost on the NIB revolver was around $450, so I just couldn't let it get away...

Jim