Ladies and Gentlemen,

I've searched this site but didn't find the information I'm looking for.

I'm thinking of improving the sighting system on my Mossberg Defender. I'm not looking for MOA accuracy, but I'd love to be able to hit a milk jug from a field rest at, say, 75 yards with 80% of my shots. BTW, this is not a hunting gun and probably never will be.

This gun is the 8-shot version with the full length magazine tube and a 20 inch smooth bore barrel with a cylinder choke. It currently has a front bead and the receiver has been drilled and tapped for a picatinny or weaver mount.

Now here comes the fun part (or maybe I'm just showing my ignorance)...

I'd love to mount a ghost ring onto the receiver and have the local smithy solder on a good front sight ramp, but it seems to me that the barrel-to-receiver mating is sloppy, and each reassembly after cleaning will shift the point of impact. I realize rifled slugs aren't the most accurate projectile around, but adding a sloppy barrel/receiver fit creates a larger tolerance stackup in my mind. Maybe this fit isn't as sloppy as I imagine...after all, Mossberg's 590 has this same setup.

I'm not 100% sold on the ghost ring set up. I've also considered seeing if my smithy can cut a 0.360" dovetail in my barrel in two places (or drill/tap holes) so I can install my own sights. Doing this would at least reduce the barrel/receiver alignment significance in the equation. Likewise, I've considered replacing my barrel with a rifled one, but that would require the replacement of my magazine tube as well.


Once again, the main idea is to improve the sighting system. Any help/comments are appreciated.

Thanks,

Mark

You can sumply put sights on the barrel ala Remingtons sighted barrels. If your drilled and tapped for a weaver base put a red dot sight on it. I've found this a very accurate set up. Here's a pix of the way the 835 Mossberg I have is set up for turkeys.

Brownell's has several sighting systems that are made for defense shotguns thats another avenue you can check out.

Thanks, Bob.

I forgot to mention that I'm looking for mechanical sights. A red dot, scope, or reflex sight will be a last resort choice.

...But since you have the red dot...does the POI change noticeably after you clean your shotgun?

I have a Mossberg 500 with the ghost ring sights. I think they are the best on the market. I dont break down my gun for cleaning. In fact, I discovered the gun is more accurate with a sling clamp in place. My gun was missing the front swivel and I needed one right away. Bought a side swivel that clamps onto the barrel and the mag tube. The groups improved considerably. Im afraid the POI will change so I havent broken the gun down. Tried the clamp on my 870 and had the same results. Mossberg sells the set of ghost rings that a gunsmith can install.

I have a Burris Redfield II 2.5x scope on my 870 - works wonderfully. I mounted it via a B-Square mount. With Winchester Super-X or Rem Buckhammer, can't go wrong.

Been keeping out of this, at least for a time, but have done a good bit or work with varous sightsw on shotgun barrels (rifled and smooth). think a lot of it is personal preference and eyesight.

Combining fast and preciese isn't all tha easy...most fast sighting systems aren't all that exacting...and most precison sights are a bit slow or lack low light ability.


Hard fact is that not all shotgun barrels, rifled or smooth, are accurate enough...the vast majoirity will shoot at least a few loads well enough to deserve really good sights. Is a limit to how much sight is needed; putting a 36X scope on a bad combiantion of barrel and ammo isn't going to make it shoot better.

Good news: unless here was a easy to detect problem, I've not found a solid 12ga. single barrel (pump, single shot, semi-auto) that couldn't hit a milk jug at 50-75yards with at least one load.

but how much sighting? One good rifled 12ga. (owned by my brother); it deserves a 2.5-8X scope...it can actually use the precision...but it's not a good choice for rapid handing and snap shooting. My old pumpMossberg 12ga. smooth bore wore a red dot and that pretty well matched it's abilites...and I wanted low-light fast sighting (was a swamp-gun).

The one for the house wears a full 1/4" diameter bead front..no middle bead...adn is proably the fastest to get into action of any I own, but isn't able to hit a milk-jug at 25yards with regularity (that big bead on a 20" IC barrel culd proably cover 3 milk jugs at that range).


Along the way have tried ghost rings, smaller apatues, express "V", square partridge sights (which aren't bad if they are big/thick enough), various sopes, a gaint red dot (old Weaver Quick Point...dot might have been 12-18MOA), and various scopes.

All i can say is to keep your mind open, and use whatever works for you under your conditions.

I have a Mossberg 500 with the ghost ring sights. I think they are the best on the market. I dont break down my gun for cleaning. In fact, I discovered the gun is more accurate with a sling clamp in place. My gun was missing the front swivel and I needed one right away. Bought a side swivel that clamps onto the barrel and the mag tube. The groups improved considerably. Im afraid the POI will change so I havent broken the gun down. Tried the clamp on my 870 and had the same results. Mossberg sells the set of ghost rings that a gunsmith can install.

I appreciate everyone's input.

Ironhead, good idea! I plan on getting the same type of clamp for slinging the shotgun, but for some reason didn't realize that it would secure the barrel. Where did you get the sling clamp? I'll check out Mossberg's Web site for those Ghost Ring sights.

Ribbonstone, I understand what you're talking about. I also liked the way you supported your argument.

That red dot sure looks fine, Bob, and I started looking at the possibilities.

acrsaved, I have a 1.5-4.5X32 scope I'm not currently using, and considered that as well.

But I'm not expecting minute-of-angle accuracy. I have rifles that can do that. I'm looking for robust sights for a defensive/camp shotgun, which in my mind means mechanical (rifle) sights. To that end, I took the iron sights off one of my scoped Encores and checked the sights' fit to my barrel. I'm still considering whether or not I want to get Ghost Ring (receiver mounted) sights.

In any case, I'll have Harry Lawson do the work when he's not so backlogged, and I'll post pictures when I'm done.

Mark

Was out at a gravel pit with my brother, busting a few targets with his new 20" barreled SXS 20ga.

Was an oil filter laying n the berm 97 yards away (measureed it later...at the time, figured it would be far enough way that I might be able to spot the gravel gyser when he mised). Point it out...he lines up those two beads and hits it first shot (WW slug load).

Figure it's a fluke, so offer lunch if he can hit it with one shot again. James isn't an idiot...he reloads the left barrel that did it the first time and does it a second time.

I paid for lunch.

Turns out the right barrel would have missed by more than a yard....but that left barrel lobs slugs right to the beads held in a figure 8 at that range. Another trip out, figured out that that left barrel would toss 20ga. WW slugs into a 4" group at 100yards....which still is impressive all these years later.

Was out at a gravel pit with my brother, busting a few targets with his new 20" barreled SXS 20ga.

Was an oil filter laying n the berm 97 yards away (measureed it later...at the time, figured it would be far enough way that I might be able to spot the gravel gyser when he mised). Point it out...he lines up those two beads and hits it first shot (WW slug load).

Figure it's a fluke, so offer lunch if he can hit it with one shot again. James isn't an idiot...he reloads the left barrel that did it the first time and does it a second time.

I paid for lunch.

Turns out the right barrel would have missed by more than a yard....but that left barrel lobs slugs right to the beads held in a figure 8 at that range. Another trip out, figured out that that left barrel would toss 20ga. WW slugs into a 4" group at 100yards....which still is impressive all these years later.

4 inch groups using bead sights! Wow!

I have a ChiCom SxS that's cross-eyed as ****. Won't give it up, though. Firearms are like beer. None of them are bad, just some are better than others. :p

Ok, guys. I been starin' at the picture of Bob's (faucettb) shotgun for a few days now and I finally broke down. His shotgun looked so pretty, I just had to go to the local Sportsman's Warehouse after work yesterday and pick up a Millett 1 inch red dot for my scattergun. $89 plus tax. Includes rings. Still need to get the scope base for my Mossy (Weaver #417M). Still gonna have Harry Lawson mount sights on the barrel for backup.

I mounted a red dot to the rib of my barrel in a scout scope position. I absolutely love it. I can take the barrel of and put it back on and POI doesn't change at all. Sighting is incredibly easy, fast, and intuitive. Truly both eyes open.

Pictures can be found here:

http://207.36.235.190/Predator%20Central%20Homepage/Karts%20shotgun%20patterning.htm

Gentlemen:

I am considering a J-Point optical sight for a spare barrel.

http://www.jprifles.com/Jpoint.php

Thoughts?

Bought a J-point for my Glock but still waiting for it to come in from Midway - they seem to highly rated in reviews. If it comes in soon enough I can comment on it's performance for you.

I pretty much gave up on a Mossberg 500 with the sloppy barrel fit. I was advised by a gunsmith that it could be pinned to the receiver for a better fit. You would just need to take out 2 allen head screws before removing the barrel. I tried shimming it with .015 tefon sheet, but it would fall out after a few shots. This particular gun will miss a 36" square target offhand at 100 yards. By conparison my Pre 1939 JC higgins will shoot less than 10" offhand. Greg

I picked up the sling clamp at a gunshow. Its not marked. You should be able to find one of the shotgun accessory outfits on the net. Edit: its a Tac-Star.