I have a 45 caliber Winchester X150 muzzleloader that I am trying to find an accurate deer hunting load and also an economical target load.

I shot a deer with a 225 Gr Powerbelt last year. It did the job but I have trouble getting them to shoot consistantly. I will confess that I have not shot this gun more than 20 times but I want to change that.

I plan on purchasing some Thompson Maxihunters (255Gr) and some Shockwave Sabots (200 Gr) to start with.

I have also thought about some 35 caliber rifle bullets. There are several choices available in these and they are a lot less expensive than Shockwaves. Is there any reason why I can not use rifle bullets?

I have been using Pyrodex Pellets but I am going to try 777 FFG so that I can vary the charge. Hopefully I will not fall victim to the crude ring.

I just found this forum and it has a lot of great posts. Hopefully some of you will be able to give me some pointers.

I love shockwaves for accuracy and deer hunting performance. You can get more options by purchasing 45 caliber sabots and filling them with bullets of the appropriate diameter.

In my experience and a lot of other people's too, is that the pellets are not very consistent. Same batch, same load, same bullet, same gun produced velocities all over the chart and accuracy to match.

Loose pyrodex to some extent, but more so T7 are extremely pressure sensitive at loading. If you cannot maintain a consistent compression on the powder, it will cause very wide velocity variations.

Thanks for the quick replies. Please keep them coming.

Glad to hear that Shockwaves work well.

How do you keep a consistant pressure when using powder?

Has anyone used anything like a 35 cal Remington 200 Gr Core-Lokt soft point or a Hornady spire point 180,200,250 Gr? These cost 1/3 to 1/2 as much as the Shockwaves. I don't know if they would perform as designed if they are only being pushed by 85Gr of T7.

Is anyone having success with Maxi-Hunters or Great Plains conicals? I have not tried any yet. How are they sized? I know my bore is over .452 because I put a Hornady XTP in it and it slid to the bottom so I know that I will have to find oversized conicals.

Please keep talking because I know that I have a lot to learn.

I have been doing some more reading at this sight today. This is a great sight there is so much information here.

I was reading large meplat bullets. Maybe a Beartooth .357 cal 173 Gr Keith or a 185 Gr FN is all I need. Has anyone used these with sabots? Could I use a .45 cal rifle Beartooth as a conical?

I have a 45 caliber Winchester X150 muzzleloader that I am trying to find an accurate deer hunting load and also an economical target load.

I shot a deer with a 225 Gr Powerbelt last year. It did the job but I have trouble getting them to shoot consistantly. I will confess that I have not shot this gun more than 20 times but I want to change that.

I plan on purchasing some Thompson Maxihunters (255Gr) and some Shockwave Sabots (200 Gr) to start with.

I have also thought about some 35 caliber rifle bullets. There are several choices available in these and they are a lot less expensive than Shockwaves. Is there any reason why I can not use rifle bullets?

I have been using Pyrodex Pellets but I am going to try 777 FFG so that I can vary the charge. Hopefully I will not fall victim to the crude ring.

I just found this forum and it has a lot of great posts. Hopefully some of you will be able to give me some pointers.
Bob, I mainly shoot patched balls, but make one exception for a conical, and it's the TC .45cal/255grn maxi-hunter.

100 grns of Goex 2f (or Pyrodex RS) in a TC Hawken with 1:48" twist and they're simply tack drivers...devastating on deer...it's the only caliber conical I use at all because of it's accuracy.

I think the inline craze has spawned a number of different BP'sub' powders all claiming to be the next best thing since sliced bread and which are very expensive.....but I have to say, after 10 years of Pyrodex RS and 5 years of Goex itself, I'd strongly recommend Goex.

If it's impossible to find where you are there are BP suppliers who sell as few as 5 lbs, but the best price is a 25lb case, spit it with a buddy or two...delivered to your door for $10.75/lb.

And if Goex is still not an option, then Pyrodex RS will get anything done that needs doing without all the 'crud ring', etc.45cal/255grn Maxi-Hunters are an honest, accurate slug for deer...a prelubed Oxyoke Wonderwad over the powder helps prevent leading and usually tightens groups.

I've tried every possible combination with wonder wads and other soft felt wads and not a one of them ever did anything more than decrease accuracy. Have seen some guns that like them but none of mine do. I have had good success and improved accuracy using a hard fiber wad though, prefer the dense 3/8" from Circle Fly but I get them dry and use my own lube on them.

I primarily only shoot real blackpowder too. Graf's is my brand of choice anymore because I ran into supply problems and excessive pricing on Goex. Started with buying 10# lot of Graf's and found it to be exceptionally consistent from lot to lot and much cleaner shooting too.

I designed my own conicals after seeing the dismal performance of all the store bought ones I tried along with some available in molds.

The Pyrodex & T7 testing came about in a round about way but the results were less than impressive. With the pellets, we went so far as to use a compression force scale on the RR and it was the only way to maintain somewhat consistent results...real pain the butt though. Found the same thing using fake powders in BPCR loadings, exacting compression pressures were critical and we could not obtain the same amount of accuracy as was possible using real BP in the same guns.

I don't do in-lines, closest I get to them is an underhammer but my nephew bought a Knight for his dad. They messed with it for several weekends before they asked me to see if I could do something with it. Don't recall the exact bullet used but it was a Barnes brand they supplied. I couldn't do anything with it either till I went to 2F BP. I think it was using 130gr with the bullet seated hard with hand pressure on the rod. Did the trick, had it cutting holes at 50yds and under 2" groups at 100yds.

Thanks guys keep the info coming.

I plan on going shopping and shooting tomorrow. I'll report back in after that.

I did a little shootin yesterday.

I shot 240 Gr TC Maxiballs, 285 Gr Hornady Great Plains and 195 Gr Powerbelt Aerotips. I used 100 Grains of Pyrodex pellets first and I could barely keep any of them on the paper at 40 yards. I switched to 70 Grains of Goex Pinnacle and things got a little better. Shooting three shot groups; the Maxiballs were the best at about 2 1/2", the PowerBelts grouped at 7", the Great Plains shot off the paper.

I don't know what happened to the Great Plains shots. They shot higher with 70 Gr of Pinnacle than they did with 100gr of Pyrodex pellets. I was surprised that the Maxiballs shot the best because they hardly even rubbed when I loaded them. The Great Plains were a little harder to start but they also went down easily after I used my starter. I pushed one of the Great Plains all the way through and took it home to measure my bore but I left it in my pocket. My wife found it in my pocket when she heard it banging around in the dryer. :rolleyes: I'll have to try that again. How tight should they fit? I know that the Maxiballs fit a lot tighter in my Dad's gun.

I ran out of time. I'll have to try again next week. I did stop and get some sabotted Hornady XTP's on the way home to add to the mix.

This was the first time that I had used Pinnacle powder and it was much cleaner than Pyrodex. One wet patch doble stroked and one dry patch and the bore was practically clean. I am not sure how consistant it will shoot, but it really is easy to clean up.

The .45’s seem to much pickier about powder charge and projectile than the .50’s.
On my Knight Disc Elite .45 the best load (also happens to be the most economical) is Knight or other high quality sabots, 10mm Hornady XTP 180 grain handgun bullets and 120 grains of American Pioneer powder. I can usually get ¾” groups at 100 yards. Unfortunately the bullets don’t hold up very well when deer are shot at close range. Both deer that I shot with that load at under 50 yards were one shot kills but the bullets did a lot of meat damage. Some other very accurate projectiles in my gun are the Dead Center, and the Barnes Expander’s. In my gun the TC Maxiballs, Hornady Great Plains, and Shockwaves did ok about 4 inches at 100 yards. I have never had any luck with Powerbelts of any weight in either my .45 or .50 caliber guns, it’s a shame because they load so easily. Try different powder charges too, a so so load can sometimes turn into a keeper with a 10 grain difference in charge. For some reason I get best accuracy with loose powder in both my guns, pellets seem to add about 2 inches to what I shoot with loose powder.

I finally got out to shoot a little today but I had to settle for my backyard where I can only shoot 30 yards.

I was shooting T/C Super XR 180 Gr HP bullets with 70 Gr of Pinnacle powder. These are the first sabots that I have fired through this gun and they did really well. My last 4 shot group at 30 yards had 3 of the 4 touching. The outside diameter of the entire group was 1 1/4". That may not be perfect especially since I was only shooting 30 yards but I was pleased. I hope to do more shooting soon.

I put a 2.75 power scope on since the last time I shot. I used see through mounts and will probably still use the open sights for any close shots but I wanted to see how well this rig could really shoot. I want to shoot some more of the Maxi-Balls and Great Plains through the scope to make this a fair test. I also have some Hornady XTP's which look like the T/C's but with a different color sabot.

I am still cleaning between every shot but I do plan on seeing if I can get 2 or 3 shots through it and still be accurate because the rod that is on the gun is not long enough to clean with. I think I will be able to shoot several rounds without cleaning because these sabots load very easily. I am not planning on more than one shot but I would like to know that it will be close enough if needed.

Do you guys clean between shots when hunting?

I have a 45 caliber Winchester X150 muzzleloader that I am trying to find an accurate deer hunting load and also an economical target load.

I shot a deer with a 225 Gr Powerbelt last year. It did the job but I have trouble getting them to shoot consistantly. I will confess that I have not shot this gun more than 20 times but I want to change that.

I plan on purchasing some Thompson Maxihunters (255Gr) and some Shockwave Sabots (200 Gr) to start with.

I have also thought about some 35 caliber rifle bullets. There are several choices available in these and they are a lot less expensive than Shockwaves. Is there any reason why I can not use rifle bullets?

I have been using Pyrodex Pellets but I am going to try 777 FFG so that I can vary the charge. Hopefully I will not fall victim to the crude ring.

I just found this forum and it has a lot of great posts. Hopefully some of you will be able to give me some pointers.
Go to BPbullets.com, Ray will fix you up with the best 45cal bullets out there for accuracy, and killing power, bar none!!!

I finally got a chance to shoot some more.

I shot up the rest of my T/C sabots and part of the Hornadys. The Hornadys are definately harder to load. They are tight enough that I have to use my starter. They seem to pattern about the same at 30 yards (yea I'm still shootin in the back yard).

I tried shooting 5 shots without swabbing the barrel. The accuracy did not change and they loaded fine. But I did have a little of the crude ring starting to form. It wasn't bad. Two spit patches cleaned it out.

Ohio hunting season starts Monday so I am going to use the Hornady's. I am curious to see how they do in a deer because I've had several of the Hornady's and the T/C's separate while shooting into my pile of rotten firewood.

I intend to try some other loads next year when the weather is a little more tolerable. It hasn't been bad yet but you know it has to be coming soon.

I shot a deer with a Hornady XTP 180 Gr HP and 70 Gr of Pinnacle powder.

It was walking up hill at me at about 40 yards. I aimed for the throat but hit a little to right of center. The bullet entered the chest cavity without hitting any bone then it hit three ribs right at the spine. The bullet was still in the chest cavity when I dressed it out. It expanded very evenly into a perfect mushroom shape.

I was surprised to find the bullet still in the chest cavity since it was such a close shot. But it did break 3 ribs and I was only using 70 Gr of powder so I guess it did pretty good. It held together a lot better than the PowerBelts bullets that I had been using.

I don't know what kind of penetration to expect with a shot through a shoulder blade at 100 yards or more though. I may try shooting 100 Gr loads and see how they group.

I have a 45 caliber Winchester X150 muzzleloader that I am trying to find an accurate deer hunting load and also an economical target load.

I shot a deer with a 225 Gr Powerbelt last year. It did the job but I have trouble getting them to shoot consistantly. I will confess that I have not shot this gun more than 20 times but I want to change that.

I plan on purchasing some Thompson Maxihunters (255Gr) and some Shockwave Sabots (200 Gr) to start with.

I have also thought about some 35 caliber rifle bullets. There are several choices available in these and they are a lot less expensive than Shockwaves. Is there any reason why I can not use rifle bullets?

I have been using Pyrodex Pellets but I am going to try 777 FFG so that I can vary the charge. Hopefully I will not fall victim to the crude ring.

I just found this forum and it has a lot of great posts. Hopefully some of you will be able to give me some pointers.

Don't use the rifle bullets!

These bullets are not intended to expand at muzzleloader velocities. They may not mushroom at all. If you want to use .35 cal projectiles, tru some 180 Nosler partition hollowpoints intended for the .357 mag pistol. They'll hold together just fine at higher, short range velocities, but still mushroom at longer ranges where the velocity drops off.
Hope this helps..

Thanks for the quick replies. Please keep them coming.

Glad to hear that Shockwaves work well.

How do you keep a consistant pressure when using powder?

Has anyone used anything like a 35 cal Remington 200 Gr Core-Lokt soft point or a Hornady spire point 180,200,250 Gr? These cost 1/3 to 1/2 as much as the Shockwaves. I don't know if they would perform as designed if they are only being pushed by 85Gr of T7.

Is anyone having success with Maxi-Hunters or Great Plains conicals? I have not tried any yet. How are they sized? I know my bore is over .452 because I put a Hornady XTP in it and it slid to the bottom so I know that I will have to find oversized conicals.

Please keep talking because I know that I have a lot to learn. Howdy guy, been playing around with a CVA Kodiak in 45cal this past summer. Sweet accurate little gun, it's pretty much identical to yours. This one likes loose 777, and the 250gr QT bullet Cabela's sells. it loves Barnes 195gr expander mz bullets too. I use 100grs of 777,and the Winchester 209 shotgun primer. I couldn't get any consistancy with 777 pellets in this gun. Also if I give it 100grs of pyrodex select it will shoot the 200gr shock wave into one hole at 100yds. I also found great accuracy using the Hornady 200gr XTP 40cal bullet, using the harvester company's crushed ribbed sabot. It's real accurate, cheap to shoot, and it will kill a deer easily out to about 125yds, if you do your part. If you can't find the crushed ribbed where you live, try a different brand, or contact MMP.com, and tell them what you want to do, they have sabots for everything out there. You have a gun capable of taking just about any critter out there with the right load, you need to go at it slow, and experiment until you find what the gun likes. Remember, what the gun likes, not what your buddies say it's suppose to like. Your gun may like straight up black powder and a conical bullet, experiment until you find out. Besides the more you shoot, the better you'll get, and your gun will break in. Here's a few sites to look at for bullets and info about sabots. claybusterwads.com (crushed ribbed sabots and bullets) bpbullets.com midsouthshooters.com, ( sabots, bullets etc). Well I hope this helps ya out some, don't be affraid to ask questions, the only dumb question is an un- asked one. Later good luck

Bobb - My .45 cal CVA Kodiak just loves the 195 grain aerotip powerbelt over 120 grains of loose Triple Seven. Excellent grouping at 100 yards (best to date, less than 2"). Nikon 4 x 40 Monarch Scope. I'd lose the see through mounts if I were you, not really very conducive to accuracy in my opinion.

I am glad to see that this thread is still alive. I have been busy all summer and have not made time to shoot. The season change has me thinking about it again.

I am thankful for the responses. It seems like we all have to find what works for ourselves but I am still open to all information that anyone has to share.

I am getting ready to purchase some more supplies and the info on these recent posts has been helpful. It is too bad that Beartooth does not make a 40 caliber bullet for me to try.

I hope to report back soon.

I have been shooting twice. Both times I have not been able to get it to group any better than 3 inch groups at 50 yards. I was shooting 100 grains of Pinnacle. I backed it down to 90 grains and the grouping did not change. I started with T/C Cheap Shots then went to the 180 grain Hornady XTP'S that I have used for hunting.

I am a little disappointed. I am not sure what to do next. I have some 200 grain XTP's and some SST's that I guess I'll try next.

Don't use the rifle bullets!

These bullets are not intended to expand at muzzleloader velocities. They may not mushroom at all. If you want to use .35 cal projectiles, tru some 180 Nosler partition hollowpoints intended for the .357 mag pistol. They'll hold together just fine at higher, short range velocities, but still mushroom at longer ranges where the velocity drops off.
Hope this helps..

I'm glad this topic came up,i was wondering about these rifle bullets should be used at muzzleloader velocities so I looked in my hornady reloading book and they have the following listed in there handgun selection

180gn sp ssp

357 maximum 1450-1700fps
357 herret 1700-1900fps
35 remington 1900-2200fps

200gn sp

357 maximum 1400-1650fp
357 herret 1500-1800fps
35 remington 1700-2000fps

All loads are described for hunting or silhouette shooting.The 35 remington goes on to say that the 180 ssp (single shot pistol)would probably be the best choice for hunting.Given that information it would seem logical that as long as you could get good flight at 1900-2200fps you would at least be at par with a 35 remington TC contender or Encore.

I shot a small button buck (thought it was a doe) with the 180 XTP. It did a good job again.

I have some other rounds that I want to try when the weather breaks. I am trying to join a club with a range that is close to home. This will make it easier to get in the shooting time.

So Bobb,

What have you tried to date and how did each configuration shoot for you? Worst to best. I hope you have been keeping records of you load workups.
Also, do you have a steady bench and gun rests (or sand bags) to work up loads with?

James

ps: Both T/C Arms and Hornady list a 200gr, 40cal spire-point, flat based bullet in a 40/45cal sabot. Could be promising.
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