I have Knight Original Disc .50 cal. that I recently got on closeout. I basically just read the self proclaimed "most accurate bullet" on the label and got Powerbelts. I can't get them to consistantly group, even at 80 yards. Someone wrote me that this is not uncommon and I needed a new bullet/sabot. If this is your experience or you have suggestions as to a reasonably accurate choice of projectile, please let me know.

WHattype or grade powder you using? What primers or caps?
What weight bullet?

As you see when it comes to black powder guns there are a lot of if's

pop over to www.modernmuzzleloader.com, they can give you a big hand in loadings

I have never had any luck with Powerbelts, I don't think they maintain a constant pressure when seated. The best store bought projectiles I have used in my Disc Elite have been Dead Centers and Barns with charges between 100 and 120 grains. spit patch between shots and be consistant in seating pressure. The Knight disc are a very accurate rifle you just have to find the load for it.

I love shockwaves, but you'd just have to try them to see how they work.

I have Knight Original Disc .50 cal. that I recently got on closeout. I basically just read the self proclaimed "most accurate bullet" on the label and got Powerbelts. I can't get them to consistantly group, even at 80 yards. Someone wrote me that this is not uncommon and I needed a new bullet/sabot. If this is your experience or you have suggestions as to a reasonably accurate choice of projectile, please let me know.
I've had good luck with them in two different rifles. One is a 1-38 twist and the other a 1-28. I shoot Black in the 3FFF and 2FF grade. Don't use the hollowpoint version on Elk. They work right on Deer though. What are you using for a powder? Are you using the copper clad models or the uncovered lead ones? I never got any where good with the uncovered models. It's a good bullet. Don't give up too soon.

I had problems with the 245 gr powerbelts in my TC Omega .50 cal. I was using 777 powder and getting about a 10" group at 100yds. When I switched to 295 gr power belts, the groups tightened, but where still not good. I then switched powder to the old "Clear Shot" opowder and the groups tightened to about 3" (as good as I can shoot with iron sights). The 777, however produced decent groups with 348 gr power belts in my TC .54 cal Renegade.

I have a friend who is a costumer service rep for knight rifles. He said they discontinued selling powerbelts at the factory because of accuracy problems.
I have found 300gr hornady sst and 350gr precision qt to be very accurate out both of my knight rifles. The hornady bullets didn't expand as well as the precision bullets did. I am going to try the beartooth muzzy bullets. Hopefully they they will shoot accutately out my rifles as they are much cheaper than the precision bullets.

I was able to get very good groups w/ 245 gr aerotips and 100 gr 777. This load would cloverleaf at 100 yards from my TC encore. However, I was not happy with their performance on deer. The bullet would expand, but didn't seem to transmit any of the shocking power to the animal. All the deer shot with this bullet ran quite a ways before piling up.

I have Knight Original Disc .50 cal. that I recently got on closeout. I basically just read the self proclaimed "most accurate bullet" on the label and got Powerbelts. I can't get them to consistantly group, even at 80 yards. Someone wrote me that this is not uncommon and I needed a new bullet/sabot. If this is your experience or you have suggestions as to a reasonably accurate choice of projectile, please let me know.
I have had good results with them in the same rifle.I use 85gr 777 FF with the 295 HP Powerbelts.The first shot hits right where it's supposed to.The group can leave much to be desired but the way I see it the first shot counts most.I have found these to be the best first shot bullets.

I have Knight Original Disc .50 cal. that I recently got on closeout. I basically just read the self proclaimed "most accurate bullet" on the label and got Powerbelts. I can't get them to consistantly group, even at 80 yards. Someone wrote me that this is not uncommon and I needed a new bullet/sabot. If this is your experience or you have suggestions as to a reasonably accurate choice of projectile, please let me know.


The problem with Power Belts is that sometimes the plastic wads are on too tight, and fail to shed off the bullet. When this happens accuracy goes South.

Take the wads off, put a small dab of Bore Butter (it's good for SOMETHIN!) on the little stub on the bullet base, put the wad back on, and rotate it one full circle. This helps it come off, and then your accuracy will depend on whether you are using the correct powder charge or not.

I had great performance from the .50 cal-295-grain bullet before the Power Belt became a CVA product with copper plating. Not so good since then, all due to wads staying on the bullet too long! :rolleyes:

The problem with Power Belts is that sometimes the plastic wads are on too tight, and fail to shed off the bullet. When this happens accuracy goes South.

Take the wads off, put a small dab of Bore Butter (it's good for SOMETHIN!) on the little stub on the bullet base, put the wad back on, and rotate it one full circle. This helps it come off, and then your accuracy will depend on whether you are using the correct powder charge or not.

I had great performance from the .50 cal-295-grain bullet before the Power Belt became a CVA product with copper plating. Not so good since then, all due to wads staying on the bullet too long! :rolleyes:
With those power belts the base checks the gas but if the plastic base can revolve then how does the bullet in front of it get spin from the rifling? I would think it would be better to super glue the base to the bullet so both would spin in the rifling grooves.

With those power belts the base checks the gas but if the plastic base can revolve then how does the bullet in front of it get spin from the rifling? I would think it would be better to super glue the base to the bullet so both would spin in the rifling grooves.
That bullet will tumble with the plastic base attached.

The Powerbelt bullet belongs/works best in slightly smaller bore CVA Rifles. Best to stick with ML-manufacturer packaged bullets (or) known bulet companies that are affiliated with your ML manufacturer.

Since the thread-starter here shoots a Knight ML, then purchase bullets from either the selection that Knight-packaged bullets offer, or try those from Barnes and/or Hornady in .452/50 for best results when using sabot/bullets.

I have Knight Original Disc .50 cal. that I recently got on closeout. I basically just read the self proclaimed "most accurate bullet" on the label and got Powerbelts. I can't get them to consistantly group, even at 80 yards. Someone wrote me that this is not uncommon and I needed a new bullet/sabot. If this is your experience or you have suggestions as to a reasonably accurate choice of projectile, please let me know.
The so called secret I learned about powerbelts is this. The plastic base is made of tough plastic, and alot of times the amount of powder being used isn't enough to expand the base enough to be accurate. There's no set size for bore diamiters on 50 cals, so bumping up the powder 5grs or so will expand the base more improving accuracy. Try it and see.If that don't work, try 2 777 50gr pellets and the Hornady SST, or talk to Ray at BPbullets.com and he'll help you work up a good accurate load using their bullets, and their bullets are extremely accurate.

The powerbelt in 348 grain works great in my .54 with a 1:48 twist. It takes a load of at least 85 grains of FFFG to properly expand the bullet to fill the riflings well. Normally,I use 100 grains of Goex FFFG and fill the back of the powerbelt with Crisco. It helps as a seal and makes the next bullet easier to load. Sometimes I'll also run a lubed patch down while I'm loading the bullet. Then the barrel gets lubed too. The bullet has to engage the riflings well to do it's job. I've had good results with all my .50 cal. rifles useing these same steps. Hope this helps.

Powerbelts 295g aerotip w/ 80g of 777 have been the most accurate and consistent out of my T/C Hawken 50cal 1:48 twist. First and second shots seem to be equally as accurate. Just a light firm push on Ram Rod to seat the bullet against the powder is all that's needed. I think some might be ramming the bullet in too hard and crushing or deforming the wad or boot on the base, thus loosing some of the ability to seal when fired. Also I think most people want to use too much darn powder charge. Mine shoots well enough for hunting accuracy w/ 80g. Dont' think that todays hype on 150g has to be the norm unless you're hunting Bison. Lower that charge down. You may be pleasanly surprised.

My .50 cal Encore likes 100grs 777, FFFg (loose powder) with a 295gr Aero Point or same weight HP. It took a while to find the right powder load and weight bullet, but worth the effort. The Aero Tip tends to over penatrate IMO, but works great on "angle" shots and if you hit bone. (Next time I will be using the "hollow points" on deer.) I did find that 100grs of FFFg was not only more more accurate than the pellet, but would send the bullet down range almost 100fps faster :D . I haven't tried Power Belts in my Hawken, but I will now! Riley

I have a Encore .50 that is very accurate with the right sabot loads. I cannot get the power-belts to group well at though. Never have. I'd like to though. If you go to Colorado, I don't believe you can use sabots.

With one exception, I've not had good luck with Powerbelts. That exception is a .54 cal. 1-in-70 twist Green Mountain drop-in barrel that's on my T/C Hawken. It normally does a very good job with PRB over 90gr. of RS.

Just to see what would happen, I tried a .54 295gr. uncovered lead Black Belt using 90gr. RS. Was surprised to find that POI was only a couple of inches lower at 85 yd. and it actually grouped better than the PRB. It's done that both times I tried it.

I figure the deep rifling of the PRB barrel grips the slug better than the shallow rifled T/C barrels I normally shoot. That and the slow twist puts less stress on the rifling's grip on the bullet.

The Greenhill formula says the 295 gr. .54 bullet is short enough to stabilize in the 1-in-70 twist. Anything bigger (longer) might not.
FWIW
Bob

I have Knight Original Disc .50 cal. that I recently got on closeout. I basically just read the self proclaimed "most accurate bullet" on the label and got Powerbelts. I can't get them to consistantly group, even at 80 yards. Someone wrote me that this is not uncommon and I needed a new bullet/sabot. If this is your experience or you have suggestions as to a reasonably accurate choice of projectile, please let me know.
Just for the record, one of the most accurate bullet/load combo's, I ever ran across, is 2- 50gr pellets, either Pyrodex, or 777, the Win standard 209 primer, and the Buffalo Bullets 375grSSB. Cabela's sells them at a real good price compared to Power Belts. All four of my inlines, Austin Halleck, Knight Disc(Orange), Knight Vision, and the Encore, will shoot this load at or under 2in. at 100yards. It's a big lead spitzer HP boattail in a sabot, alittle heavy for deer, but all 5 that were shot with it dropped over, and stayed down. Try it for yourself!!!

In my limited experience the Power belt bullet loads to easily UNLESS the bore is fouled Even the manufacturer suggest this and says that you may need to shoot a fouling load to remedy this no big deal just a little hassle . I use the powwerbelts out of a traditions 50 Cal that only cost me 100.00 at wally world with pyrodex pellets and as the post above point out you only need to push bullet down to contact powder charge and NOT to hit with hand as with the pellets this can break pellets and accuracy will suffer as ther is little likelyhood of the pellets breaking uniformely. BillyCraig

I have shot every Grn. powerbelt and every other manufacturer of sabot, and my TC Omega groups lousy,3-4 inches at 100yds, but I always return to the Powerbelt cause nothing loads any easier. As far as killing power, I have killed 25-30 deer with them and they never ran more than 25 yds shots from 8-175 yds. When the weather breaks, I am going to work with loose powder charges in different volumes.

The key with any projectile for firearms is it's ability to obturate or fit the groove when the gun is fired. We don't buy a mold for our centerfires without slugging the bbl. Why does everyone expect miracle groups because the hype say accurate. If it said accurate in any rifle regardless of groove size, I would wonder and research first. Power belts, sabots, most any thing you can put into your bbl, is undersized to start with. If I was to get an in line, I would specify .002 rifling depth and a groove that is .002 smaller than the bullet I'm gonna shoot, an extra piece of the custom bbl 4 inches long with 2 inches of the rifling removed, lube your bullets and size them with the bbl piece and then use them in the rifle. It might shoot. That .50 cal is most likely .51 or .52 cal. Then you stuff a .500 dia plastic based .490 bullet on top of 150gns of pelleted powder. When it goes off the bullet resists obturates usually after it cants slightly making it off axis when it comes out of the bbl. Used to be an in line called white shooting systems, it was complicated in that you had to actually shoot bullets made for that particular gun. Most folks that bought these guns still own them, don't complain about the bullets inaccuracy. There is no fits all bullet for a .50 cal or any other muzzle loader, other than a patched round ball but then you need the right patch or it won't fit the groove and shoot just like a $600 dollar in line with the wrong bullet.

I had some accuracy problems with them also - my problem turned out to be powder, not bullets. I shoot a .50 CVA Optima 209 with the 26" barrel. I was shooting 245 grain Powerbelt Aerotips, backed by 2 pellets of 777. First shot - decent, all others went south. I switched to 777 powder, not pellets, and reduced the charge to 80 grains instead of the two 50 grain pellets - accuracy greatly improved to the point it's my current favorite setup.

On the other hand, my friend, who swears by his TC blackpowder rifles cannot get a PowerBelt to shoot out of any of his guns right, with any powder setup - 777, Pyrodex, pellets, powder - didn't matter. He shoots some sort of TC labeled 245 grain sabboted hollowpoint bullets - kind of looks like a Barnes bullet, and I think that is what they are.

Lastly, he gave me a few of his "favorites" to try in my gun - I couldn't get the darn things to load in my CVA. I tried them with Bore Butter for lube and one dry, ... no go. I couldn't get a single one of the bullets to seat all the way down to the powder charge, and ended up having to pull two of them. I never did get to shoot any, and gave up after those.

I don't know - maybe its just different manufactures guns prefering different loads... just like everything else.

All the best,
Glenn

.45 Cal CVA Kodiak Magnum/28" barrel/1 in 28 twist. 195 grain PB aero tip bullet over 110 grain 777 ffg. Very satisfactory grouping at 100 yds. Best group 4 shots/1 1/2"....probably never do that again!

.45 Cal CVA Kodiak Magnum/28" barrel/1 in 28 twist. 195 grain PB aero tip bullet over 110 grain 777 ffg. Very satisfactory grouping at 100 yds. Best group 4 shots/1 1/2"....probably never do that again!

Not to hijack the thread, but I just wanted to put this where you would see it - how do you like the Kodiak? I've looked them over several times, and have been thinking of picking one up lately.
All the best,
Glenn

I'm very happy with it. Easy to use, easy to clean, & more accurate than I am with it. The dealer had a .50 TC and this gun on his shelf. The TC had the same appearance and action, I think it was an Omega. It was considerably more. I would have bought it, but the guy talked me out of it. He said both guns were the same functionally, plus he pointed out that the breech end fit of the CVA was much better than the TC. He said some fellas complained of pine sprills, etc. getting down in around the action of the TC. Last December I hunted an entire day in a freezing rain. The whole rifle was iced up in good fashion. After legal hunting ended, I fired the gun to check it in these conditions. It went off just like a modern centerfire. I'd get another one, but I'm sure the TC is a great gun too. Guy

Yeah, I'd love to have a TC, and should just save up for one, but my .50 CVA Optima works really well, and I just have an itch I wish to scratch in regards to a .45 as well... so I think I'll get a Kodiak. I'm going to leave the Kodiak sans scope, and just use those nice looking fiber sights it comes with.
All the best,
Glenn

The Remington 700ML I used to own wouldn't shoot the Powerbelts I tried for anything. On the other hand, my Austin Halleck 420 shoots them quite well - and as well as the other sabots I tried. It's a good thing - the powerbelts load easily, but the sabots are almost impossible to load (I usually mash the tips all out of whack trying to get them loaded). This barrel must have a slightly smaller diameter than many other muzzle-loading barrels.

Red Pepper,

have you tried to shape the end of your loading rod to match the profile of the sabots you are shooting?

I believe that this can be done by removing material, or by using epoxy and a release adgent. If you search arond a bit I'm sure you'll find instructions.

This should help with the deformed tips. This is good practice no matter which bullet one is using.

Hope this helps someone

Nate

Nate,
I have the same problem with deforming Sabot rounds in my CVA Optima, and I have the various tips formed to load them. A recessed tip for the AeroTip bullets, and two different pointed ones to fit inside the hole of a hollow point bullet. Even if I use the one designed for the bullet, the fit is so firm, I'm bending the heck out of my composite rod trying to get them down the barrel - to the point that if the rod was aluminum, it would look like a pretzel when I was done - not to mention the divot in my palm if I wasn't using the little t-handle I bought. I couldn't even get a sabot to load all the way down to the powder charge. I don't know why???

All the best,
Glenn

Sorry, I have no suggestions on the force required to load sabots. Sabots are illegal to hunt with here in CO, so I've never shot them...

Hope someone will be able to help ya out.