I just got a lightly used 1894 and took it to the range. At 25 yards my 3 inch S&W 629 shoots better groups (4 in.) than the Marlin. Bullet 240 gr Remington JSP. 10.5 Unique. I have used a scope and iron sights but no change in grouping.
Any ideas what is happening here?

The last 1894 .44 I had would shoot close to 1" @ 100 yds.!

I would suspect that may have something to do with why you got the gun in such condition used. It may sound stupid, but are you sure it is a .44? Even if so marked it may have gotten a .45 barrel in it. At least try to insert a .44 bullet in the muzzle, if it falls in there's your answer. If not, them slugging the bore could reveal a lot. It sounds like the bullet isn't taking the rifling though, Even a smoothbore should shoot 4" @ 25 yds.

It is a .44 Mag.

I am getting velocities of 1276 fps out of the Marlin. The same loadings shot through my Redhawk 7 1/2 inch are about 1230 fps.

The last 1894 .44 I had would shoot close to 1" @ 100 yds.!

I would suspect that may have something to do with why you got the gun in such condition used. It may sound stupid, but are you sure it is a .44? Even if so marked it may have gotten a .45 barrel in it. At least try to insert a .44 bullet in the muzzle, if it falls in there's your answer. If not, them slugging the bore could reveal a lot. It sounds like the bullet isn't taking the rifling though, Even a smoothbore should shoot 4" @ 25 yds.



Try slugging the barrel, drive a pure lead bullet thru the barrel and mic it to see what the groove diameter. May have to go to a larger bullet to get a good seal.

It is most likely the load you are shooting. Just because it shot ok out of the Ruger doesnt mean that it will out of the Marlin. I found my best accuracy with the 1894 Marlin and a 240 gr JFP to be with AA#9 and IMR 4227 I would try to work up a load with your unique and see what happens, but I think I would try some other powders and see what happens.

I was just working up loads for my 218 Bee with the Hornady 45 gr Bee bullet using H110. I was getting crappy groups with it and then all of a sudden at the max load of 11.5 gr it shot about 1/4 of an inch. I went home and loaded up some more to try just to see if it was a fluke. It did it again. It may just be finding the load that shoots for the rifle. Don't give up on it.

Thanks. I am working on some heavier loads with Unique. 10.5,11,11.5.

You can try Hornady bullets which are .430. The velocity from the rifle which would be expected would be more in the 1600 FPS range if you're getting 1230 out of the revolver. Since you are getting nearly the same as from a revolver that would indicate a problem also. Since you are using jacketed bullets the .001 difference in bullet diameter isn't enough to explain either the accuracy problem or the low velocity. Try some 2400 and see what happens. Again, slug the barrel and see what the groove diameter is. If the barrel turns out to be oversize substantially you could just have a cast bullet gun, or a candidate for sending back to Marlin for a replacement.

I used nothing but Unique in my .44 revolver for years. I could not get a Unique load to shoot very well in my Marlin .44 rifle.

If you have it, try some 2400. 15.5 grains and 240 grain jacketed bullets shoots very well in mine.

That's interesting. I will have to try 296 or 2400. It may be that I am not getting accuracy because the velocity is so low with Unique.

That's interesting. I will have to try 296 or 2400. It may be that I am not getting accuracy because the velocity is so low with Unique.

It just seems some powders don't shoot well for what ever reason. I didn't have very good accuracy with unique when I tried it in the 1894. It is always a good thing to have several powders on hand ;)

I just traded for a Marlin 44 and I am having the same problem that you are having. My favorite load in my Redhawk is a cast bullet over AA5 powder. But the 44 Marlin shoots a 5 inch group at 50 yards and that's with a scope. I tried PMC factory loads, no improvement, maybe worse. I am going to try reloading 240 grain Hornaday bullets over some H110 and/or Blue Dot. I may try fire lapping the barrel. If that fails, ???

Give up guys. Just kidding although I have considered it many times in the last 3 years.

The hornady 240 over H 11o will shoot . I also load the 240/ 250 lead over 5.6 grs of bullseye for both the revolver and the marlin 94 for good results The 240 / .430 seem to get the nod, how ever do not expect sub inch groups.

Marlin likes to over bore the barrels on the rifles , so slug the barrel if your unit shoots all over the place. your rifle may require a .432 lead pill to hit the 6inch plate @ 100 yards.
My Winchester trapper had this problem.

I find I can manage the Marlin 94 with the .430 bullet and the bullseye.

Cheif RID. I admire your perseverance. But, Yikes, three years! LOL.

Taylor, your gun is more accurate than mine. Mine is a 10 MIA gun. It is so much fun to shoot at 55 gallon drums at 25 yards. LOL

Today, I am trying 2400 powder at 17, 18, 19.5 loads. I will be using 240 gr Remington JSP's and 200 gr lead MasterBlaster bullets. If this does not work, I will melt the gun down to make bullets for my 3 inch 629 which so far is significantly more accurate than the Marlin rifile.

I will let you know the results tonight.

If those loads don't work, try 15.5, 16, and 16.5 grains of 2400 with the 240 jacketed bullets.

Since you are shooting lead and jacketed are you sure you are getting any and all fouling out before switching from one to the other?

If those loads don't work, try 15.5, 16, and 16.5 grains of 2400 with the 240 jacketed bullets.

Since you are shooting lead and jacketed are you sure you are getting any and all fouling out before switching from one to the other?
Think your confusing me with the man who started this post . He was using jacketed bullets as far as I understood.

Thank you for all your comments and help.

This gun don't hunt!

It was extremely interesting to find out that others have had accuracy problems with the 1894. Shooting 6 inch plates at 100 yards just don't cut it for me.

I tried 240, 200 jacketed bullets. 200, 250 lead bullets. Unique and 2400. Velocities from 1100 to 1685 fps. I tried over 24 different combinations. Cleaned it, re-cleaned it, and cleaned it again. Best group at 50 yards was 4.5 inches and worst was 7 inches. I used open sights, peep sights, and an Eotech sight. Also, with any of the ammo combinations my worst group at the same distance was 3 inches with a Ruger Redhawk revolver.

Please keep in mind that I have a Win Model 70 that shoots 100 yrd groups of 3/4 inch with my reloads. It ain't me, LOL.

As for slugging it, lapping it, etc. to my mind that is like buying a car to go to church on Sundays, and the dealer then tells you that you need to get the engine blueprinted to do even that job.

If an under 30 Cal gun can't shoot 1 MOA and an over 30 Cal gun can't shoot 2 MOA out of the box, it is a loser.

I haven't yet decided whether to melt the gun down for bullets, give it to Representative Nancy Pelosi for home defense against radical Islamic terrorists, or sell it on Gunbroker to some poor soul that thinks shooting at refrigerators at the dump is fun.

I love the concept of a trapper type gun. Unfortunatley, the only "Trap" was the one Marlin set for me when I bought the gun.

Expecting a Marlin levergun to shoot 1" groups at fifty yards without a little tuning is unrealistic. Check out the postal match scores. http://home.awesomenet.net/~ranch-dog/PM/ Keep in mind the scores are not overall group size but the distance from the center of the bull to the center of the worst of five shots.

If you are new to leverguns, it takes a little practice and trigger time to get good results also. IMO, they are much more finicky to shoot than a bolt gun.

I don't think I would fight one as long a Chief Rid has but I think you might be giving up to quick.

I have some Speer 240 JHP's on the way from MidwayUSA.com.

If they don't work with a variety of charges, then it's off to Browning and Winchester.

Also, I am a little concerned that in other parts of this forum, others are having problems with Marlin accuracy in other calibers. Some have complained about bad and/or missing grooves in the rifleing.

As for tuning, something is very wrong when we will allow a manufacturer to sell us something for $500 and we have to spend another $200 on ammunition to "tuning" it to get it to do what it should have done from the getgo. To my mind, the gun should shoot 3 in groups at 100 yards with standard factory ammo (Remmington/Winchester etc.) and be tuned to 1 1/2 inch by reloading. My $300 Hawken black powder muzzle loader shoots 2.5 in groups with round balls at 100yrds! No tuning required!

The idea that a manufacturer of a modern firearm would sell a gun that shoots 10 inch 100 yrd groups with factory ammo is a joke. The idea that we would accept that from them is unacceptable.

All I can say is that they are what they are. Some shoot better than others. I would again point you to the match scores. A lot of good and experienced riflemen shot in this match, some of us burnt a pile of ammo.

Only 41% of the entries could put 5 shots within 1" of the bullseye using a scope at 100 yards and only 14% of the entries could put 5 shots within 1/2" of the bullseye using iron sights at fifty yards.

I would also suggest you look at how the Winchesters and Brownings fared against the Marlins before you go that route.


I can tell you the two things that got my 1894 .44 magnum shooting under 1" groups at 50 yards with iron sights:
I took the forearm off and reassembled it paying careful attention to how I tightened the screws. I worked with my loads until I finally hit the jackpot.

My rifle really likes the cheap Magtech jacketed bullets, that and 15.5 grains of 2400.

Good luck with whatever you decide. :)

Thanks again for the advice.

However, I bought a .44 magnum to shoot .44 magnum loads.

I get 1300 fps out of my S&W 3in 629. My guess is the 15.5 gr load you have has a velocity of about 1100 fps or less. If I wanted that kind of performance I would have purchased a 38 special rifle.

I also noticed the winner of one of the postal matches used a 35 remmington with 6.5 of Clays! If I am not mistaken that gives a bullet velocity slightly higher than a blowgun. LOL.

Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see the point of using 6 gr of Unique in a 458 Weatherby - 500 gr bullet at 300 fps. LOL.

Buying a high performance caliber rifle and then downloading it to archery velocities, is like buying a John Deere backhoe to plant Impatients in your home garden. Just my 2 cents.

The new 24 inch barrel stainless steel XL whatever, how is the accuracy? Has Marlin improved the accuracy?

AL 1894,
Before you give it up, call Marlin and tell them your problem. They will fix the rifle.

BTW, 240 grain Hornaday bullet over H110 and WLR primers gave very good groups. The same bullet, primer, and Blue Dot powder gave 5 inch groups. I tried H110 with the cast bullets and 5 inch groups. I can't explain it. I'm just happy to find a combination that works.

I will give it a try.

Has anyone used teflon tape where the forend touches the barrel to reduce harmonics?

Hey guys I've owned a win 94 and a marlin 94 in .44mag, neither would shoot very well when I got them. I done some action and trigger work on them it helped but not much. I then realized I had to work on my reloads (Havent shot any loaded but .22s in years) I went at it this way, first I decided to try to build match ammo and brass. I trimmed all cases just undersized so all cases would trim evenly. Gave me a good position to set my crimp and made all case uniform in length and squareness. I next reamed and deburred the flash holes, necessary? Probably not but I was going for the best accuracy I could. I then cut all the primer pockets to an even depth with a flat bottom drill I made up with a stop collar. Chamferred and then weighed all the brass using a +- 5/10ths as a culling pt. Out of 300 rem brass I got 50 that were +- 0 these I used as they had been fired from the win94 and I got another 50 in the upper range +-0 variance from 94 marlin. The marlin started shooting really well with lower loads of WW296 or 2400. That win94 bugged me bad, as it would not group as well, finally out of desperation I started going up with the WW296 wouldn't you know it a .75 group at 50yds and lyman peep only problem none, but the load would really set you back. It was in the warning range, where you knew it was on the edge though no apparent signs of pressure. The marlin did a nice 1.5 at 100 with a 3X9 leupold cranked up. It was a moderate load though and the best was 2400 with the marlin. The win rests in a friends gun cabinet he uses the same load I developed and has scoped it. PS I was using Sierra 200 gn HPs. Never did try any heavier, got on them because I had a bunch left from a .444 project for a friend. Hope my ramblings help, but I couldn't get good loads until I worked my brass.

Almost ready to give up. Three more bullets to test tomorrow.

Will let you know. If it they don't work, gun is for sale. Beautiful .44 SS.

Do the Browning 92 .44, Winchester 94 .44, and .444 Marlin also shoot 5 inch groups until it is "tuned" properly?

My 1894SS shoots about 3" groups with factory ammo.

Am I understanding that quite a few people are having accuracy problems with their .44s ? I've heard some folks .44s are tack drivers, yet the other half aren't happy at all with accuracy. I'm just wondering if this is something common, and perhaps I should rethink my caliber choice in the 1894...........


Tim

Leverguard - I bought this gun for hunting hogs in the Florida swamps and as a "poor man's assualt rifle" (10 rounds of .44 mags can stop a whole lot of trouble fast.

I have gone to about 5 different forums regarding the 1894. I can't find anyone who has said that they got good results immediately with any factory ammo in the 1894. I can't find anyone who has an accurate 1894 unless they are shooting puff-puff loads under 1100fps.

Some web sites tell you the gun needs to shoot under 240 gr bullets because of the 1-36 twist (I would love to meet the Marlin designer who thought that was a good idea). Others like http://www.lasc.us/FryxellMarlin1894.htm tell you the bullets should be 250-320. Some sites say the gun is "finicky". I beleive this is all code that tells us the gun don't shoot too good. Nobody wants to say their gun stinks. It's like the guys who say their gun has "managable recoil." That's really code that tell you the recoil is horrible.

So far, in my opinion, if our military was issued this firearm, we would all be facing Mecca 5 times a day by now.

Today's bullet de juor test was a 225 grain Speer JHP SWC.

Best 50 yrd results with 17,18,19,and 20 of 2400 was 4.5 inches.

My friend brought his old, beat up, Ruger .44 semi auto. Same loads he got from 3/4 inch to 1 1/2.

Using a scoped Ruger Redhawk and the same loads, groups where 2 in to 3.5 inches.

Yes I have played with the screws and forend. No, I have not lined the barrel with duct tape.

Total rounds now fired to find the "sweet spot" is now 510.

Hog season is in 3 weeks. Lucky Hogs!!!

Any of you that want to get rid of your junk .44 1894's pm me witrh a fair price.

1894 in .44 mag, 5" shoot-n-c, 50 yds, first day on range with Williams 5D peeps (http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=244932317&size=m). The 4 O'clock to 11 O'Clock group is a 12 year old boy, the other one me. Winchester ammo (Q4240). No tuning to rifle other than sight set up. Bought it NIB.

Threads like this make me wonder if it was lucky me day when I brought it home, but it's pretty much what I expected what I bought it.

The industrial revolution is now in its 3rd century and Marlin is manufacturing guns with 5 inch groups at 50 yards. How can you teach a kid to hit paint cans offhand at 50 yards when only 1 in five shoots will hit, if he is lucky.

I was just having a discussion with my kids that America has entered the age of mediocrity.

Our schools don't work.

Our local governments are currupt.

We forgot how to fight a war.

We build a 700 mile fence on a 2,000 mile border.

Spanish is the laguage of commerce at the local shopping mall.

We spend money public money on professional football, baseball and basketball stadiums and yet have to wait 8 hours at a hospital emergency room.

We have presidents getting BJs in the oval office.

Pedophiles in Congress.

etc, etc......

We get mediocrity, we accept it, and we even make excuses for it.

So, I guess, we get what we deserve.

Thanks again for the advice.

However, I bought a .44 magnum to shoot .44 magnum loads.

I get 1300 fps out of my S&W 3in 629. My guess is the 15.5 gr load you have has a velocity of about 1100 fps or less. If I wanted that kind of performance I would have purchased a 38 special rifle.

I also noticed the winner of one of the postal matches used a 35 remmington with 6.5 of Clays! If I am not mistaken that gives a bullet velocity slightly higher than a blowgun. LOL.

Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see the point of using 6 gr of Unique in a 458 Weatherby - 500 gr bullet at 300 fps. LOL.

Buying a high performance caliber rifle and then downloading it to archery velocities, is like buying a John Deere backhoe to plant Impatients in your home garden. Just my 2 cents.


Actually that was my score from last year. And the reason ?i shoot those loads is because I can shoot a whole lot of them cheap. You can get a lot of loads per pound of powder at 6.5 grins.

But back to the 44 mag problems. I have not tried 200 grain bullets, but the 240 gr Mag Tech bullets shoot very well. The 2 powders that have owrked the best were AA#9 and IMR 4227, and they were not "puff puff" loads.

The AA#9 from 19.0-21.5 grains in 1/2 grain increments all shot under 2 inches at 50 yards with factory sights and trigger. The most accurate load was at 19.5 gr and it had all 3 shots touching.


The IMR 4227 from 22.5-24.5 was about the same. all under 2 inches at 50 yards with the most accurate load at 24.0 gr again with all shots touching. After several trips out to shoot and repeatable results those two loads are what I shoot.

None of the other powders shot near as well and I tried Unique, Blue dot, Win 296, and H110.

The funny thing was I got a good deal on the rifle from a friend of mine because it didn't shoot ;)

Mine shoots small groups out to 100 yds with jacketed bullets. It is just the lead rounds that cause trouble. I bought the gun to shoot lead and that what it will do this hunting season. The proof will be in the freezer, so we will see. It may get it's first opportunittee this weekend.

Ok, lets look at it this way:

Time spent reloading and shooting at $10 hr $200

Cost of ammo so far $240

Total $440

Cost of gun $450

Total cost of gun so far that can't shoot $890


Cost of Browning BLR shoots 1MOA out of box $750

Savings and Possesion of gun that can shoot + $140

Did Ben Franklin say. "penny wise, pound foolish"?

Ok, lets look at it this way:

Time spent reloading and shooting at $10 hr $200

Cost of ammo so far $240

Total $440

Cost of gun $450

Total cost of gun so far that can't shoot $890


Cost of Browning BLR shoots 1MOA out of box $750

Savings and Possesion of gun that can shoot + $140

Did Ben Franklin say. "penny wise, pound foolish"?


May I just ask, why not ship the rifle back to Marlin to have them remedy the problem? I know you are disapointed with you rifle and it's accuracy, but I myself have not had issues with accuracy in my Marlins over the years..only the curiousity about Potential accuracy of a certain caliber I am wanting to buy. Every Marlin I have ever had.....and those of my family have always shot very well with factory loads, especially considering the TYPE of firearms these are. They will never be benchrest rifles, given the action type/tube feed system. I understand your concern VERY WELL, and am personally curious as to why not just have Marlin fix, or replace your rifle. Not meant out of spite at all. I've just seen many, many people have more that adequate/acceptable acuracy from these rifles. When you've seen someone pop a squirrel with a 30-30 at near 100 yards with open sights....isn't that acceptable accuracy? Or is half of that just the shooter? As I said, I'm not meaning anything...just curious. It should be any easy thing to have the factory remedy this situation for you. It would be very nice if all us leveraction fanatics would see a perfect rifle out of the box......but regretfully it doesn't always happen. Best of luck,


Tim

Build some match grade reloads!!!!

Time to make match 44 mag brass = Hours
Time to weigh bullets and match them = Hours
Time to test precision loads = Hours
That one shot kill when it counts = Timeless

You can build good loads for bottleneck rounds that shoot very easily.

Taking a straight walled case (actually tapered) and get it to hold a bullet square is a tad harder to do. After all it has no straight walls and the bullet is not gripped as tight at the bottom as it is at the top. But if you don't, your bullet starts out crooked and ends up scattered in large groups. Roll them loads on a flat table top and see if your bullets wobble as it rolls. Hard to notice on a short bullet, but try it on a bottleneck case and you'll see it. A bottleneck case has a straight spot to hold the bullet?

Al,
There's definitely something wrong with your rifle.
24 gr. of H110 under a 240 gr. XTP bullet yields
1440 fps. in my 71/2" Redhawk and 1770 fps. out
of my ported 94 carbine. 50 yd. scoped and rested groups
often cloverleaf out of the rifle. Mine has the ballard type rifling and is wearing a Burris 2 3/4X Scout scope mounted
on an AO scout mount.
I've done nothing to "tune" the rifle.

nunnya

I agree nunnya. See my post on Hunting with the .44. My results coincide with yours

I mean nunnya's.

Mark

Have owned three Marlins in .44 mag, 1894 CBII Limted w/ 24 inch barrel, 20 inch round barrel PG model, and just a regular round barrel pre-safety pawn shop gun. The first two where NIB, at first I used the CB II for CAS, I loved it and thought it was too nice to go out in the field (like dragging it around the range every weekend wasn't bad enough :rolleyes:) and bought a PG model. That one just didn't like anything I tried in it, cast lead cowboy loads, factory .44 mags, premium ammo, it just wasn't what I'd come to expect. Sold it, bought a Marlin CBC in .45, which shoots great within the same range of ammo. The CB II .44 mag went into the field and shot deer, hogs, and even made a skunk fly once. Even though it shot low power cowboy loads just fine, there were certain factory brands that caused the accuracy to drop off. Enter my pawn shop .44, beat to heck, barely cycled ammo of any kind, even jammed a time or two using snap caps, but the bore looked good and I got it cheap, but spent about 1.5 times the cost getting things fixed or replaced, and added some extras. Kinda like buying a ragged out old chevy Impala that still ran, just not very well. New coat of paint, some body work, new interior, same engine but with a bigger carb, headers, re-built and modified tranny so it would shift a little faster and smoother than stock. If I'd bought a new Chevy and then put the speed parts on I'd be out a lot of money, but if I spend twice the amount of the purchase price restoring it, I still haven't come close to what I'd spend on a new one that works the same.
My point is that no matter the brand, a small number of them don't shoot as well as the majority. If Marlin test fired every single gun coming out of the factory and could state that every one will shoot 2 MOA then the price would be out of reach of most folks, and the production totals would also drop accordingly.

So, let me back up a few years when I first got into CAS. I already had a good deer rifle although it too was a Marlin, I felt the Winchester Trapper in .45 was the way to go, not only because I thought the wood was better looking but it was around $20 cheaper than the Marlin 1894.
The Winchester was the worst shooting, biggest dang-it! rifle I'd ever owned, and it didn't matter if I was at the range or shooting at deer and hogs, low to high velocity, light to heavy bullets. However the Marlin PG I bought later was more accurate than the Winchester and didn't cause nearly as many dang-it! episodes, but it was not up to my expectations of acceptable accuracy.

I've also since figured out the best way to clean my rifles, learned that copper, lead and powder fouling can occur quickly and that some folks just never get every bit of fouling removed and give up. Some rifles are more prone to this quicker than others, some owners just give up before learning to get rid of the problem.

I've had two Marlin's in .44 that shot great from the get go, one brand new and one that's now 30 years old.
I've had one Winchester in .45 and another Marlin in .44, both brand new that had horrible accuracy.
My Marlin CBC .45 is still great at shooting steel plates, deer and hogs some 4-5 years after it was made.
I often get 1.5" groups out of Marlin .35 Remington at one hundred yards nearly ten years after I brought her home.

Marlin chose the 1:38 twist rate, for better or worse so the rifling would give less resistance to the bullet and not have the potential of over pressure build up before the magnum powder charge pushed it out of the longer rifle barrel. I find that 6 grains of Trailboss in a magnum case w/a 200 grain bullet will pop a 6 inch steel plate at 100 yards all day from a standing, unsupported position. Buffalo Bore's heavy .44 special ammo will feed and cycle through my Marlin as fast as I can pull the trigger and kill hogs here in S. Texas.

If you 1894 .44 relatively new and won't shoot well then I think you should send it back to Marlin for service.

That's my two cents for the days.

If we all sent the Marlins back that had oversized barrels as we defined them there would be a lot of guns chambered in 35/44 Mag and 45/70 going back . Marlins view is that the barrels are to the "new" SAMMI spec .which in my terms is at least two thou. over bore ,"Then" add the restrictions in the barrels under about the rear site, and front site.
I had a guide gun in 460/70( 45/70 ) that I played with ,that had these problems and sold it cheap because it would not shoot. and yes I bought a BLR browning.I do have a older Marlin a 336/35 that has a good ballard cut barrel which was made in 1954. Then there seems to be no issues with the 336 in 30/30at least not reported . But the newer 336/35are known to be oversized bore with the two restrictions. Marlin seems to be ignoring the issue, since because of all the units sold only a few are complaining.
You can say what you want boys , but I have heard the same stories from new Marlin owners when Marlin still had the Marlin owners forum. I think the forum was dropped because too many people were bitchin about the barrels.
I have two Marlins that I will keep since they are good guns. ( good bores )Overall I do like the product, but not the product of the last few years because of the barrel concerns.If your willing to lap the restictions out of the barrel and match the lead to the barrel you have a fine shootin iron.

I have a 1894 .45 colt that came NIB with a chipped stock. I have to send it back to Marlin for repair. The rifle isn't as accurate as I hoped, if I was to complain about accuracy do you think they would do some work on it? I do really like the rifle and want to keep it.

What I have learned so far"

1. Nearly all Marlin Barrels have problems

2. Some barrels can shoot well with a limited number of reloaded bullet/powder combinations, but not the same combinations in most guns.

3. Marlin overbores their barrels.

4. When Marlin cuts the groves for front and rear sights the barrel is compressed in those areas.

5. Marlin had so many complaints about barrels on their company web site forum that they removed the forum rather than fix the barrel problems.

6 Most Marlin 1894 purchasers bought the gun for form rather than function, and are willing to overlook poor performance, or limited loading flexability with the otherwise extremely versitile .44 Magnum cartridge, so they can have a" cool" gun.

7. Gun sale web sites like Gunbroker.com always have a continuous stream of 1894s in .45 and .44 guns for sale with 50 to 250 rounds through them. A sure sign of a problem gun model.

8. Factory ammunition don't work in this gun. Least not the same ammunition from gun to gun. If you don't reload this gun is a real dog.

9. You can send your gun back to Marlin and get another barrel installed that won't have the same problems, just different ones, and you can start "tunning" all over again.

10. Most Ruger and Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum revolvers will out shoot the 1894 with just about any ammunition. In my own tests a S&W 3 inch barrel Model 629 in .44 mag out shot the 1894 at 25 yards with every bullet powder combination I tried.

Have I overlooked anything?

All last year with the Marlin 1894 in 44 mag. The proof is in the freezer.

I had to add this one to get the third one in. Sorry. I was especially happy with this one because it was my first deer with the rifle while still-hunting. We usually hunt from tree stands. It was also the last day I hunted last season.

What I have learned so far"

1. Nearly all Marlin Barrels have problems

2. Some barrels can shoot well with a limited number of reloaded bullet/powder combinations, but not the same combinations in most guns.

3. Marlin overbores their barrels.

4. When Marlin cuts the groves for front and rear sights the barrel is compressed in those areas.

5. Marlin had so many complaints about barrels on their company web site forum that they removed the forum rather than fix the barrel problems.

6 Most Marlin 1894 purchasers bought the gun for form rather than function, and are willing to overlook poor performance, or limited loading flexability with the otherwise extremely versitile .44 Magnum cartridge, so they can have a" cool" gun.

7. Gun sale web sites like Gunbroker.com always have a continuous stream of 1894s in .45 and .44 guns for sale with 50 to 250 rounds through them. A sure sign of a problem gun model.

8. Factory ammunition don't work in this gun. Least not the same ammunition from gun to gun. If you don't reload this gun is a real dog.

9. You can send your gun back to Marlin and get another barrel installed that won't have the same problems, just different ones, and you can start "tunning" all over again.

10. Most Ruger and Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum revolvers will out shoot the 1894 with just about any ammunition. In my own tests a S&W 3 inch barrel Model 629 in .44 mag out shot the 1894 at 25 yards with every bullet powder combination I tried.

Have I overlooked anything?

Thats a mighty broad brush you have there. But here is my 2 cents worth.

1. I have a lot of Marlin rifles and have yet to get one that "has barrel problems". I have shot in Ranch Dogs postal match for the past 4 years and don't believe I have anything worse than 2 inches at 100 yards with a Marlin limited to a 4x scope. And at 50 yards the open sight rifles shoot good also given the limitations of my eyes and open sights.

2. I have Brownings, Rugers, Savage, Winchester and Remington bolt guns that are no different. Some won't shoot one load as good as the next rifle, and with hand loads shoot the same results, might shoot MOA out one rifle and no better than 2-3 inches out of another. So how are Marlins any different.

3. If Marlin overbored all their rifles there would be a lot keyhole shooting rifles, which I have never had one do.

4. Guess I have yet to have a problem with accuracy because of the dove tail cuts in the barrel.

5.Many of us were around the orginal Marlin Firearms forum, and it sure wasn't shut down because of complaints about barrels.

6. I have a few 1894 Marlins and they sure are not for looks. Some of them will shoot sub MOA at 50 yards with open sights and sub MOA at 100 yards with scopes. None of them "won't shoot"

7. I dont look at the gun sale sites so I really have no clue there.

8. I don't shoot much factory ammo, but the times I have I had no complaints. My 336CB in 38/55 with Winchester factory ammo shot about 1.25 inches at 100 yards with factory sights out of the box, my 1894CB in 32 mag shot under an inch at 50 with factory sights and Federal factory ammo. The 2, 30-30 rifles I shot at 100 yards for this years PM were shot with factory ammo using Hornady's Leverevolution and they both shot under an inch.

9. Unless you have sent your rifle in and got "a different problem" back how do you know.

10. I would put any of my 1894's up against a handgun any day. But since this rifle seems to such a POS I'd give you $100 bucks for it so you can be rid of it.

I just don't think it is fair for you bad mouth Marlin as a whole. I have yet to own a Marlin that doesn't shoot and I would bet that rifle of yours will shoot, maby it won't, but Marlin has been noted for doing the right thing and taking care of problems. They have top notch service and several guys have posted how happy there were with Marlins quick service. Give them a chance before you bad mouth them the way you have. That I think is only fair.

quote from big medicine

"I have a lot of Marlin rifles"
"My 336CB in 38/55 with Winchester factory ammo shot about 1.25"
"My .32 1894 shot under an inch"
"I shot in Ranch Dogs Postal Match " with at 336
"30-30,,,,shot under an inch"

Reply

We have only been discussing the 1894 in .44 magnum. Not other Marlin Models. I'm glad your 336 works good, and your .32 1894. Also notice in Ranch Dogs postal match not one 1894 in .44 magnum finished in the top 10 in any category.

quoe from big medicine

"since this rifle seems to such a POS I'd give you $100 bucks for it so you can be rid of it."

Reply

Thank you telling us how great you think Marlins are and what you think the real value is of a .44 magnum 1894. The real proof of the excellence of a firearm is the value its stanchest supporters give it. I agree with you here wholehartedly. The gun is worth $100.

quote from big medicine

Reply

Thank you telling us how great you think Marlins are and what you think the real value is of a .44 magnum 1894. The real proof of the excellence of a firearm is the value its stanchest supporters give it. I agree with you here wholehartedly. The gun is worth $100.

Hey, thanks for a first class response.

Dan

quote from big medicine

"I have a lot of Marlin rifles"
"My 336CB in 38/55 with Winchester factory ammo shot about 1.25"
"My .32 1894 shot under an inch"
"I shot in Ranch Dogs Postal Match " with at 336
"30-30,,,,shot under an inch"

Reply

We have only been discussing the 1894 in .44 magnum. Not other Marlin Models. I'm glad your 336 works good, and your .32 1894. Also notice in Ranch Dogs postal match not one 1894 in .44 magnum finished in the top 10 in any category.

quoe from big medicine

"since this rifle seems to such a POS I'd give you $100 bucks for it so you can be rid of it."

Reply

Thank you telling us how great you think Marlins are and what you think the real value is of a .44 magnum 1894. The real proof of the excellence of a firearm is the value its stanchest supporters give it. I agree with you here wholehartedly. The gun is worth $100.

You are right, we were talking about 1894 44 mag's at first, until your post about the poor quality of Marlin's which appears to be a pretty general idea of Marlin. And then the comment about Marlin shutting down the Forum because of the complaints about their barrels. That is about as far from the truth, not even close to the reason the forum was closed down. And you might go back and look at the PM scores again KenK had a very good score with the 44 mag in the open sight class in the top 10.

As far as what I think your rifle is worth, I never said, I only said I would give you $100 for it. The way you talked about the rifle, didn't sound like you thought it was worth much.

I'm really sorry that you couldn't get your rifle to shoot. Maby there is a problem with it, but comming on a forum and bad mouthing Marlin isn't going to fix the problem, esp when you have not even given them a chance to look at it.

I had a muzzleloader that wouldn't shoot. I called the company and delt with them directly. after trying everything they suggested and it didn't work they issued a will call to UPS and paid to have the rifle sent back. With in a week I had another rifle in hand that the Pres of the company took off the line and took it out and shot it, himself. They took care of things and I was very happy about the way they did it. I could have found a forum and told everyone what a POS that rifle was without giving them a chance to fix the problem. Insted the problem was taken care of in a timely manor and I got a real tack driver in place of it.

Your upset that your rifle doesn't shoot the way you expect it to, and I can't blame you, but give Marlin a chance to make it right before you trash them.

Al1894: My group for the postal match was 1.31" or 1.21" (can't remember which) for a 5-shot group at 100 yards with a 4X scope. This was with factory Winchester 240 gr. jacketed soft point ammo. And yes, the trigger has been "tuned".

Do you want to solve/fix/repair your problem or just convince the rest of us we have ****ty rifles?
You don't like your 1894? Get rid of it! You mad at Marlin for having suckered you, together with this whole conspiracy of 1894 owners? Put a sign on it that says: " This rifle is a lemon and I'm a fool for having bought it!" Then parade it around gun ranges. It's a POS but you want to make everybody agree theirs is ALSO a POS? I must agree with you that yours is a POS, but mine isn't.

There. So much for the voice of reason.

From the postal match rules;

Scoring the target
The size of the 5-shot group will be measured from the center of the bullseye to the center of the furthest bullet hole from the center. Your target once submitted, will be scored electronically with the Shooter's Lab software using the referenced specification.

Ranch Dog Comments... The idea of the match is to place five shots as close to the center of the target as you can.

Here's what the Marlin 44 mag entries scored;

Open sights, bench- 1.07, 1.08, 2.34 -50 yards

Scoped bench .44 mag Marlins- 1.31, 1.47, 2.85 -100 yards

Doesn't seem to me that the Marlin .44 mag is a bad rilfe nor all lemons.

From the postal match rules;

Scoring the target
The size of the 5-shot group will be measured from the center of the bullseye to the center of the furthest bullet hole from the center. Your target once submitted, will be scored electronically with the Shooter's Lab software using the referenced specification.

Ranch Dog Comments... The idea of the match is to place five shots as close to the center of the target as you can.

Here's what the Marlin 44 mag entries scored;

Open sights, bench- 1.07, 1.08, 2.34 -50 yards

Scoped bench .44 mag Marlins- 1.31, 1.47, 2.85 -100 yards

Doesn't seem to me that the Marlin .44 mag is a bad rilfe nor all lemons.


I don't know about anyone else, but I've had a few reservations about buying the .44 mag 1894. MAINLY, is it suitable for hunting in my area. After a (hopefully) thorough search...it appears it is, as long as I use the correct ammo. There were a few questions about accuracy. Between this, and the M.O. forum, I've had my questions answered to my satisfaction. As to the buying of a rifle because of looks, or cool factor, or what have you...... kinda sorta. Doesn't everyone? MY ideal rifle is sitting in a gunshop somewhere waiting for me when I've got the extra scratch after getting all the bills paid. Hopefully soon....... :D I'll have a little 1894 Cowboy in .44 mag :D:D:D......and I'm buyin a big freezer, just in case :D.


Tim

I have an 1894S in .44 mag with the ballard cut barrel. Its a light rifle with very slow locktime firing a slow bullet with fairly stout recoil. The antithesis of a bench rest gun. If I concentrate on my technique I can get 1.5" groups at 50 yards with jacketed bullets. If I go about shooting casually group size will double. I've yet to find a cast load that I'd care to shoot past 25 yards with.

Another good thing about the 1894 is how easy it is to shoot off hand. I have rifles capable of much better accuracy than the Marlin, but bringing the rifle to your shoulder and shooting at an 8 inch plate in 2 or 3 seconds, at ranges from 25 to 100 yards my hit probability with the Marlin is just as good, if not better, than the others. It is user friendly. I don't hunt, but if I did, I'd think that user friendliness would be all important for quick shots.

Seems to me that the fellow is pi$$ed off at everything, including Marlin......? The 1894 series guns are brush guns par excellance. We have four 1894P's and all will shoot within 4" at 100 yards, with about everything we feed them. I admire those that play with that gun and get the groups down to under 2" at 100 yards.....but?
I am not even going to guess what might be wrong here on this gun? I just have not seen that kind of inaccuracy in the 1894's? I do know a couple of things 1894's don't like. One is it does not like the forearm rested on a hard bag. It does not like a loose hold on the bags, but these are things all lever and single shots seem to dislike. As for overbore, the original specs on the 44 Special were carried over by Ruger. Ours dearly likes full .430" jacket bullets and any hard cast at .432".
But.....we are looking for brush gun accuracy......Regards, James

In the past I have found out the hard way that if I had been shooting lead bullits, then switched to jacked bullits that the accuracy went to pot in both my .44's and the reverse holds true as well, so I just scrubbed both clean, and use one for lead, and one for jacketed, and both will shoot 1" to 1 1/2" groups. at 100 yards W/Scope. (Grand daughter shooting, not me.)

Faster lock time can be achieved by increasing the hammer spring tension, but it makes the rifle a slight bit slower in lever operation.

Since I limit myself to 100 yards or less while hunting, I find the 1894 to be the perfect rifle for my use. For ranges beyond 150 yards I take my 1893's.

When hunting, get close, then when you think you are close enough, "Get Closer."

Yippie!!

Finally. After spending over $250 in ammunition.

200 gr Master Blaster lead. 20 of 2400. Starline Brass. Winchester LPP. 75 yards.

After 50+ years of shooting, an important discovery has been made. I CAN AND OFTEN DO MISS WITH ANYTHING. As for the Marlin rifles. They are included. However, I like them and plan to keep on shooting them as long as I am able. I'm sorry you have had problems with yours. Mine have been great. I'm well pleased with them.
If one load doesn't work for you, try another. I wish you luck in finding a rifle you may like.
Take care and God bless.
Tom

Did I mention the center cirlce is 1 inch?

Did I mention Offhand with Iron sights?

Did I mention 15 mph breeze?

Did I mention 1812 fps?

Did I mention a 12 SD?

Did I mention I didn't sell the gun to big medicine for $100?

1894ss...Poor man's assault rifle! I'll take 11 rds of .44 magnum over 20 rnds of .223 anyday!

I just got the eotech....now if I can just find a colapsible stock!

Did I mention the center cirlce is 1 inch?

Did I mention Offhand with Iron sights?

Did I mention 15 mph breeze?

Did I mention 1812 fps?

Did I mention a 12 SD?

Did I mention I didn't sell the gun to big medicine for $100?

1894ss...Poor man's assault rifle! I'll take 11 rds of .44 magnum over 20 rnds of .223 anyday!

I just got the eotech....now if I can just find a colapsible stock!


As they say, all's well that ends well.......pleased you "mentioned" things are looking up.

Dan

Poor man's assault rifle!

How much is the rifle worth now? Good shooting, by the way!

My 1894 is now worth about $1200 because it is fully "tuned" for hunting velocity bullets and should now shoot 1 1/5 groups at 100yrds with a peep sight.

I can't tell you all the secrets involved in turning this sows ear into a silk purse, but laping the barrel with used Depends patches soaked in a combination of ingredients that included, but was not limited to, canola oil, Tang, and crushed Monarch butterfly wings, played a major role in developing this precision accuracy.

Al I'm very glad you did not give up. Congrats on a hard labor, won.

Dang, I was in hopes of getting it for $100 ;) I'm glad you found the combo. They really are good rifles. Now blast a deer or two with it this fall!!

Geesh. All I had to do on my 336W was adjust the barrel band tension a bit. Didn't cost me a dime. :p

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=33285

Never tried this on a Winny, so I don't know if it work the same or not.

This past Saturday I went to the range with my 336W .30-30 to sight it in with the new WWG Ghost Ring sights and new orange fiber optic 3/32" bead front. I also wanted to see if I could dial in the accuracy using barrel band tension. I had read about this over @ MarlinOwners, and thought I'd try it.

Both barrel bands were extremely tight from the factory. So I backed off the screws until they were well loose, then tightened them until they were just snug.

This is the result, 50 yds, Federal 150 gr. Power-Shok:

6 shots, 3.8" group

http://www.fototime.com/BBD81DF3174639F/standard.jpg


So, I tightened the aft barrel band screw 1/4 turn, and got this.

a .65" group!

http://www.fototime.com/E53A08C0C9B3B51/standard.jpg


Then finally got the sights centered:

http://www.fototime.com/357E2BA35D00BF4/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/DA5DFB87D181A31/standard.jpg


And I wanted to see how my hunting load, the 150 gr. Fusion shot. This is without any sight adjustment.

6 shots @ 1.3". The lowest shot I pulled, so throwing that one out, it's .75"

http://www.fototime.com/DA6CDC52D79551F/standard.jpg

Then for kicks, I tried 170 gr. Silvertips:

http://www.fototime.com/D21F636034CF5A0/standard.jpg


To be honest, I didn't believe that the barrel band adjustment would make such a drastic change in accuracy.

And I am tickled that my "defensive" and hunting loads have basically the same POA/POI.

336 Whiskey.....nice show.....only the thread was about the Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum!!!...

336 Whiskey.....nice show.....only the thread was about the Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum!!!...


And your point is?.....

Let's see.

Marlin's 336W has a 20" barrel with 2 barrel bands. It vibrates at certain harmonics when fired. These harmonics can be manipulated with barrel band screw tension to find the sweet spot.

Marlin's 1984SS has a 20" barrel with 2 barrel bands. It vibrates at certain harmonics when fired. These harmonics can be manipulated with barrel band screw tension to find the sweet spot.

Caliber has nothing to do with it. :rolleyes:

And mine improved with 3 different FACTORY loads I tried that day.

Marlins will shoot. In fact, the guys at the range that day when they saw my targets were surprised a levergun could out shoot their bolt guns.

Caliber has everything to do with harmonics, as does, bullet weight, bullet shape, type of powder, powder charge, barrel diameter vs. bullet diameter, bore smoothness or lack of, barrel weight, shape, steel, bullet velocity, etc. along with barrel band screws.

Caliber has everything to do with harmonics, as does, bullet weight, bullet shape, type of powder, powder charge, barrel diameter vs. bullet diameter, bore smoothness or lack of, barrel weight, shape, steel, bullet velocity, etc. along with barrel band screws.


So, have you tried it yet?

Yes I tried the screw adjustments. Made a 25% difference. 8 inch group at 50 yards became 6 inches.

After a month of trying, this gun has to go. After experimenting with over 55 loads, t works with only two loads so far:
240 JSP with 8 grains of Unique. 1 inch group at 50 yards. This is a great load for hunting Roaches.
Only full power load that works is 200 LFP 20 of 2400.

When there are so many fine .44 Mag rifles out there that work well with a large variety of bullets/loads, why would I keep the 1894. I can't think of one reason why?

After thinking about this I have come to the final conclusion on this model - 1894 .44 which cost $469:

It is like buying an expensive DVD player and taking it home only to find it only plays a few kinds of movies. It won't play adventure, romance or sports videos. After polishing the laser it may play documentaries, but it doesnn't play all of the movie, just some of it. It will play all of the documentary if you adjust the screws on the rubber bushings it sits on and experiment with the direction the front panel faces on the compass, though some owners swear that tilting it on a 4.33 degree angle does the trick.

Why would I keep a DVD player like that?
Why would I keep the 1894?

See you all on GunBroker.com

Yes I tried the screw adjustments. Made a 25% difference. 8 inch group at 50 yards became 6 inches.

After a month of trying, this gun has to go. After experimenting with over 55 loads, t works with only two loads so far:
240 JSP with 8 grains of Unique. 1 inch group at 50 yards. This is a great load for hunting Roaches.
Only full power load that works is 200 LFP 20 of 2400.

When there are so many fine .44 Mag rifles out there that work well with a large variety of bullets/loads, why would I keep the 1894. I can't think of one reason why?

After thinking about this I have come to the final conclusion on this model - 1894 .44 which cost $469:

It is like buying an expensive DVD player and taking it home only to find it only plays a few kinds of movies. It won't play adventure, romance or sports videos. After polishing the laser it may play documentaries, but it doesnn't play all of the movie, just some of it. It will play all of the documentary if you adjust the screws on the rubber bushings it sits on and experiment with the direction the front panel faces on the compass, though some owners swear that tilting it on a 4.33 degree angle does the trick.

Why would I keep a DVD player like that?
Why would I keep the 1894?

See you all on GunBroker.com

Well, you won't get much sympathy from me due to the fact that you haven't given Marlin a chance to make it right. From everything I've read, their customer service is first rate.

Hope you don't too much of a loss on it. :rolleyes:

Here is the latest with the inaccurate Marlin 1894 lever. My first with a hard cast bullet. Off hand at about 50 yds.

Why would I keep a DVD player like that?
Why would I keep the 1894?

See you all on GunBroker.com

I took a poll of all Marlin 1984 owners, and on behalf of their emotional well being, they agree, please sell it!

Dan

I've owned three 1894 marlins over the past 30 years of so. One .357 mag would hold an inch and a half at 100 with Federal AE factory loads or some handloads and 2 1/2X scope. Neither of the two .44 mags would group better than 5MOA. With the first one I spent months, shooting, loading and tinkering with it three days a week. Tried cast, tried jacketed, tried fast, tried slow, tried glass bedding, tried free floating, even tried shooting with forend and mag removed! Got an occasional OK group but never could duplicate it.
With the second .44 I gave up sooner but did give it a pretty good chance as well. People said "it's a brush gun, what do you want?" Well, I want better than 5 MOA for sure, so I doubt I'll ever get into another Marlin .44 mag. I attribute it to the slow twist and notice that Ruger .44's now have a much faster twist. I think the marginal twist rate makes them "touchy" many of you seem to get them to shoot but I tried two and they were crummy. Never had that trouble with my 30-30, it would shoot any reasonable load into 3 Mao or better, some into half that without any special effort.

I came to realize I was asking a little much from mine and am really happy now using it for those shots out to 70 yds. As I have said before, between 70 and 80 yds the groups get weird. Out to 70 they are minute of deer all day long. I will be serious about the 50 yd iron RD match next year. I will be shooting my buddies .308 Savage 99. It is scoped, so look out.

I will be shooting my buddies .308 Savage 99. It is scoped, so look out.

Chief, if you're anything like me, as soon as you say something like that, you know what's going (or not going to) happen :p ;)

Dan

Well I'm sure glad this thread is finished. What a relief. Regards, Byron

Well I'm sure glad this thread is finished. What a relief. Regards, Byron

Yep! it has been said.
Never heard much about the 44/40 or the 32/20 series. Maybe they shop better, than you could throw your apple
Now lets have some hi hopes for the new 308 E
Happy

Al, slug that barrel and be done w/ all the speculation.
Gather the numbers, then send the gun back. I don't know what may be happening at the front end of Marlin, but I've always heard good about the back end which is where my MR-7 is right now.
My .44 is not a great shooter at distance but I attribute most of that to me due to my running alllll kinds of ammo thru it w/o sandbagging for results. I have yet to loose a hog to it but all my shot are at 10'-100ft.
I need to check the year on it and get it right as I would like to take some longer shots, but then I 'm not having as much fun shorting the stalk.
I understand your frustration w/ a new gun....... but I don't understand not getting Ed at the "back" to go over it...especially if you have the numbers on(in) the barrel.
cw

the nosler reloading guide 5th edition has loads for the 44 mag rifle mentions the marlin 1894 using jacketed bullets from 200gr to 300gr with tested loads listing the powder used check the load data and try some of the loads listed maybe your 44 mag will print.

I Agree w/ Al that you should be able to get better grouping w/ off the shelf ammo..
I just think the route to accomplish it was not taken some $$$ ago.
cw

I have read where the .44 Marlin '94 had tight spots in the barrels from the cuts for front and rear sights and from screwing the barrels into the receivers. I have read where this has been fixed by fire lapping. My '94 .44 shoots pretty well, but I haven't benched it at 100 yds. My Cowboy rifles in .357 and .45 Colt shoot very well, but those barrels are larger and octagonal and may not be subject to the same stresses during manufacture.

Clem, do you have a son? If so he would be Clem-son. I could not resist being a Clemson grad.

I do have a son. He is now 28 and he and his wife have given his mother and me our first grandchild.

Congrats! They should nickname him Tiger.

Do these inaccurate Marlins have Microgroove barrels?
There was a problem with this shallow rifling so Marlin went to conventional rifling in them.

My inaccurate Marlin has ballard rifling and is one of the newer models but the microgrooves do just fine.

One trick
Check to see if your fired cases fit your chamber , then just resize the neck only .That way the case wall supports the round when loaded instead of the just the rim. I have a Lee die that just touch's up a fired case then another one set up to neck size the case to hold the bullet. End result a bottleneck round if you eye it close.