This years ML season in MN prohibits the use of "Nitro or Smokelesss" powder ML firearms during the regular ML season.

As it should be...sounds like the citizens and wildlife department in Minn. have their heads screwed on straight...kudos to intelligent people making intelligent decisions.

I think the smoke is another fun part of muzzleloading :)

Seems resonable to me. The in-lines and now the smokless-in-lines have been trying to get the perfornace of cartridge firearms...they pretty much have...so now they can hunt under the same regulations as a cartridge single shot.

Idaho has actually split the muzzle loading season into seperate parts. One for all muzzle loaders and one for "traditional" muzzle loaders using swing hammer guns, loose powder and patched round balls only. The seasons for the modern inlines is severly restricted, though you can use them during regular rifle seasons.

This years ML season in MN prohibits the use of "Nitro or Smokelesss" powder ML firearms during the regular ML season.

As it should be...sounds like the citizens and wildlife department in Minn. have their heads screwed on straight...kudos to intelligent people making intelligent decisions.
I started with ball and cap then went to an inline. Sometime in the future I plan to get a flintlock. I use a little bit of everything and I don't care what anyone else uses.
If you want to use a flintlock or ball and cap then more power to you. Why would you care what I happen to be using? Does this somehow impede your hunt? Are you afraid someone with an inline is going to shoot your deer? I don't understand why you feel that inlines are intruding on your season. Would it make you happy if someone tried to tell you not to hunt with your weapon of choice?

I started with ball and cap then went to an inline. Sometime in the future I plan to get a flintlock. I use a little bit of everything and I don't care what anyone else uses.
If you want to use a flintlock or ball and cap then more power to you. Why would you care what I happen to be using? Does this somehow impede your hunt? Are you afraid someone with an inline is going to shoot your deer? I don't understand why you feel that inlines are intruding on your season. Would it make you happy if someone tried to tell you not to hunt with your weapon of choice?
For the same reason you can't use a cross bow during archery season. You place a modern stock on a modern barrel with modern sights shooting a modern bullet with powder pellets and a shotgun primer. You eliminate all the challenges of muzzleloading. Muzzleloading season was designed for the traditional muzzleloaders. These seasons have been around before the inlines. Inlines are nothing more than a modern firearm that happens to load through the muzzle. People should be allowed to hunt with their inlines all they want, during rifle season. Like showing up for a Civil War re-enactment with an M-16. Keep your powder dry.

For the same reason you can't use a cross bow during archery season. You place a modern stock on a modern barrel with modern sights shooting a modern bullet with powder pellets and a shotgun primer. You eliminate all the challenges of muzzleloading. Muzzleloading season was designed for the traditional muzzleloaders. These seasons have been around before the inlines. Inlines are nothing more than a modern firearm that happens to load through the muzzle. People should be allowed to hunt with their inlines all they want, during rifle season. Like showing up for a Civil War re-enactment with an M-16. Keep your powder dry.
The inline muzzleloader was invented in the 1700's in a matchlock configuration. They are nothing new. You still have not explained why my hunting with an inline is impeding your hunt.

If you've got an inline flintlock you'd like to hunt with, I'd say you'd have a point.

If you've got an inline flintlock you'd like to hunt with, I'd say you'd have a point.
The point is that hunting with an inline doesn't hurt the "traditionalist" one bit.

The point is that hunting with an inline doesn't hurt the "traditionalist" one bit.

Many states agree with you jlbeebe. There just putting modern muzzle loaders such as inlines either in thier own hunts or making hunters whom use these "newer" muzzle loaders use them in the regular rifle seasons. Even so shotgun primers are not allowed in muzzle loaders in Idaho.

For the folks whom use Traditional sidehammer guns with loose black powder, flint or percussion caps and patched round balls our state has created specific seasons seperate from regular rifle seasons just as they have created an archery season seperate from regular rifle seasons.

Makes it great for everyone.

Idaho has actually split the muzzle loading season into seperate parts. One for all muzzle loaders and one for "traditional" muzzle loaders using swing hammer guns, loose powder and patched round balls only. The seasons for the modern inlines is severly restricted, though you can use them during regular rifle seasons.

Better read the regulations again, Conicals are allowed too.

Myself, I don't have a problem with smokeless powder, scopes or 209 primers. As long as the gun loads from the muzzle it's a muzzleloader to me. You still have one shot and it still takes a long time to reload.

What I like about the more modern muzzleloaders is they are much safer guns. It is not a performance thing to me, after all a sidelock gun with a fast twist barrel will perform as well as the latest modern muzzleloading gun.

What I do dispise is a State that regulates firearms based only on the appearance of the gun, such as Idaho has done with the so called primative muzzleloader seasons. I can name a half dozen muzzleloaders that meet the discription of primative in Idaho that are of contemporary design, the T?C Scout for one.

How is a modern muzzleloader safer than a traditional side hammer gun?

Bye
Jack

Better read the regulations again, Conicals are allowed too.

Myself, I don't have a problem with smokeless powder, scopes or 209 primers. As long as the gun loads from the muzzle it's a muzzleloader to me. You still have one shot and it still takes a long time to reload.

What I like about the more modern muzzleloaders is they are much safer guns. It is not a performance thing to me, after all a sidelock gun with a fast twist barrel will perform as well as the latest modern muzzleloading gun.

What I do dispise is a State that regulates firearms based only on the appearance of the gun, such as Idaho has done with the so called primative muzzleloader seasons. I can name a half dozen muzzleloaders that meet the discription of primative in Idaho that are of contemporary design, the T?C Scout for one.

your absolutly right goatbrother, conicals are allowed, just not sabot's. Please excuse my oversight. Your also right about some of the modern guns with a swing hammer meeting the requirements for the primative muzzleloader season.

I don't understand how a loaded cocked inline with the safety on is any safer than a loaded swing hammer with the hammer not cocked.

I'm hopeful IDFG will take care of this oversight. From talking to friends whom work in fish and game their looking at those regulations as we speak. There probably won't be any rule changes til next year though.

We may see regs to the effect that black powder subs and modern guns are also restricted by next year.

I'm not really into the black powder hunting. I am getting to really need optics to be successful hunting big game anymore.

I do know one thing the Remington 700 ML in 54 cal I had loaded with a hundred 140 grains of triple seven and shooting 400 plus grains of modern minni ball primed with CCI musket caps was a 200 yard elk gun.

Most of the triditional black powder guns my friends shoot can't come close to comparing with that. Years ago I built a .54 cal Lyman great plains rifle with a slow twist patched ball barrel. It also was a hundred yard gun.

I think we will probably see only a tridational muzzle loader hunt come out of all this. Basically will be three seasons, an archery season, a rifle season that will include the "modern" muzzle loaders and a late triditional muzzle loader season.

Many states agree with you jlbeebe. There just putting modern muzzle loaders such as inlines either in thier own hunts or making hunters whom use these "newer" muzzle loaders use them in the regular rifle seasons. Even so shotgun primers are not allowed in muzzle loaders in Idaho.

For the folks whom use Traditional sidehammer guns with loose black powder, flint or percussion caps and patched round balls our state has created specific seasons seperate from regular rifle seasons just as they have created an archery season seperate from regular rifle seasons.

Makes it great for everyone.
Here in Iowa we are right in the middle of our early muzzleloader season. We do not discriminate against other hunters, if it loads from the muzzle you are good to go.
My seven year old boy and I went to a friends cornfield tonight and set up our blind. Just before dark the deer started showing up. I picked the biggest doe and at 106yds placed a hornady saboted bullet nicely through her lungs. She went about 30yds and fell.
My farmer friend is happy as I told him I would thin out some does for him. The DNR is happy as they sold a tag, and my seven year old is ecstatic about going on his first deer hunt. The best part is no "traditionalist" was damaged throughout the course of our fine hunt. There is no reason why a sidelock hunter and an inline hunter can't hunt in the same season. This elitist attitude of many "traditionalists" is quite childish and only serves to divide hunters and make it easier for the anti hunters to gain a foothold.

Here in Iowa we are right in the middle of our early muzzleloader season. We do not discriminate against other hunters, if it loads from the muzzle you are good to go.
My seven year old boy and I went to a friends cornfield tonight and set up our blind. Just before dark the deer started showing up. I picked the biggest doe and at 106yds placed a hornady saboted bullet nicely through her lungs. She went about 30yds and fell.
My farmer friend is happy as I told him I would thin out some does for him. The DNR is happy as they sold a tag, and my seven year old is ecstatic about going on his first deer hunt. The best part is no "traditionalist" was damaged throughout the course of our fine hunt. There is no reason why a sidelock hunter and an inline hunter can't hunt in the same season. This elitist attitude of many "traditionalists" is quite childish and only serves to divide hunters and make it easier for the anti hunters to gain a foothold.

Sounds like a great hunt for both you and that 7 year old. My 12 year old grand daughter is going out with me in the morning. This is our rifle season and she's got a youth model 7 Remington in 308. We spotted a couple of nice bucks about a week ago and are hoping to catch them in a little draw up on the praire.

Sure glad your taking that youngster out. Congrats.

Sounds like a great hunt for both you and that 7 year old. My 12 year old grand daughter is going out with me in the morning. This is our rifle season and she's got a youth model 7 Remington in 308. We spotted a couple of nice bucks about a week ago and are hoping to catch them in a little draw up on the praire.

Sure glad your taking that youngster out. Congrats.
Thanks, my boy is now telling me he can't wait till he's ten so he can shoot his own deer. I tell my children they have to wait until they are ten to shoot a deer. This may seem strange but I don't want them to develope a flinch from the recoil. My oldest boy is now ten and is planning on shooting a doe with his .243 during our antlerless only season. I hope your grand daughter has success in the morning. I sure like to see the youngsters bag a nice one once in awhile.

By safer, I mean from a mechanical standpoint. Most of the In-Line type guns have redundant safety systems, such as a hammer safety notch and a trigger safety. In addition to that the nipple on an In-Line isn't as exposed to acidental impacts. That being said, any gun is a mechanical devise and as such all are subject to failer. I just feel a lot more comfortable carrying the more modern guns in the field.

Here in Iowa we are right in the middle of our early muzzleloader season. We do not discriminate against other hunters, if it loads from the muzzle you are good to go.
My seven year old boy and I went to a friends cornfield tonight and set up our blind. Just before dark the deer started showing up. I picked the biggest doe and at 106yds placed a hornady saboted bullet nicely through her lungs. She went about 30yds and fell.
My farmer friend is happy as I told him I would thin out some does for him. The DNR is happy as they sold a tag, and my seven year old is ecstatic about going on his first deer hunt. The best part is no "traditionalist" was damaged throughout the course of our fine hunt. There is no reason why a sidelock hunter and an inline hunter can't hunt in the same season. This elitist attitude of many "traditionalists" is quite childish and only serves to divide hunters and make it easier for the anti hunters to gain a foothold.
Colorado went through the process of separating traditional ML's from inlines several years ago. I was a sham. The makers if inlines and outfitters who guide inline hunters overwhelmed the traditionalists with arguments that "inlines offer no advantage, they're still ML rifles.
What they said to the DOW is very different from what they say in their advertising and what we all know to be true. Traditional ML's are 100 yard guns with round ball or Minies. Modern inlines are now true 200 yard guns and no reason they cannot soon be 300 yard guns. Many inline makes can litterley be thrown into a pond, pulled out and fired. You no longer have even to "keep your powder dry".
It is true that inlines load from the front but with powder pellets attached to the sabo they can be reloaded almost as fast as a singleshot centerfire, which in reality is what they really are.
Special seasons for "primitive firearms" were set up especially for those hunters willing to handicap themselves by using primitive equipment. Inline rifles were designed to eliminate the handicap as much as possible while still legally qualifying. They are "rule beaters" plain and simple, and any honest person would admit that.
Why do I care what you hunt with? The same reason archers don't want to share their season with crossbows, because any boob can shoot one of those. The traditional ML rifles requires a lot of time and effort to learn to master. I've been at it over 50 years and am still learning. The inline hunter just takes the rifle out of the box, loads up according to instructions with the accessories supplied and he's ready to hunt. Hopefully he does at least fire a few on the range to get sighted in, but once that is done, he can put it away at the end of season just like his other centerfires, pull it out next year and go hunting.
Thus, Primitive seasons are no longer for just the few who are willing to handicap themselves in equipment. Inlines make it easy for anyone who wants to take advantage of the extra season. And take advantage is exactly what they do.

One can have the same kind of performance in a side lock gun with the simple addition of a fast twist barrel made of modern steel that will handle conicals and sabots. Is that ok?? Are the people opposed to the In-Lines concerned about the way a gun looks or about the performance? I think is very silly to object to a firearm just because it does not have the look some think appropriate.

The bottom line for me is, people just need to get along and stop being so selfish and intolerant. We can't make allowances for every little special interest group. We need a technical defanition of what a muzzleloader is and we need to stick to it.

A muzzleloader is a muzzleloader, a cartridge gun is a cartridge gun and a bow is a bow. And don't forget we have an obligation to the game animals too in that we need to harvest them in a respectfull and humane manner.

I really don't like the idea of splitting up the muzzleloading seasons. Should the bow season be split into two groups, one for recurve and long bows and the other for componds, should rifle season be split into two seasons, one for the old black powder era guns and the other for more modern guns? If you want to talk about a performance gap, look at the cartidge guns, we have the old timers like the 45-70 and 30-30 and at the upper end all the ultra mags. Is if fair to let people hunt with an ultra mag when another wants to use a 45-70?

I think we are wasting a lot of time and effort on such a trivial matter. There are much more important matters we should be spending our time on, like keeping the anti-hunters from stopping our hunts, keeping the wolves under control so they don't eat so many game animals there are non left for us, and keep the anti-gun crowd from banning our firearms all togther.

Joe, Don't want to contradict you, but want to point out CO rules...

No pelletized powder, no Sabots, only open sites, bullet can't be longer that twice it's Cal...

I hunt with a traditional side hammer fyi

I think these rules do a decient job of limiting guns to 150 yds, and allows most style of muzzle loader... They do nothin for the keep powder dry part.

Best o luck to everyone

nate

OK guys, calm down. Pretty obvious there are two sides to this argument and whichever side your on it's a no win situation.

This question will eventualy shake out with seasons and limits on the types of muzzle loaders. Were already seeing states seperate the classical tratitional muzzle loaders from the inlines.

Many states are putting the modern inline muzzle loaders in the same seasons as modern rifles. These new guns fare no better than many cartridge single shots do and some work to longer ranges.

The Idea here fellas is were all hunters and we all to some extent use different equipment and that's ok. How a state sets up the way we use that equipment can be determened by you with your input to your Fish and Game Commissions.

I know I talk to them often and sometimes my input is listened to. Gentlemen there is no getting around progress, it's how we regulate that progress that really counts.

Just looked in the Websters second college edition new world dictionary of the american language.

Muzzleloader: Any firearm loaded through the muzzle.

Just a simple defanition is all we need.

One can have the same kind of performance in a side lock gun with the simple addition of a fast twist barrel made of modern steel that will handle conicals and sabots. Is that ok?? Are the people opposed to the In-Lines concerned about the way a gun looks or about the performance? I think is very silly to object to a firearm just because it does not have the look some think appropriate.

The bottom line for me is, people just need to get along and stop being so selfish and intolerant. We can't make allowances for every little special interest group. We need a technical defanition of what a muzzleloader is and we need to stick to it.

A muzzleloader is a muzzleloader, a cartridge gun is a cartridge gun and a bow is a bow. And don't forget we have an obligation to the game animals too in that we need to harvest them in a respectfull and humane manner.

I really don't like the idea of splitting up the muzzleloading seasons. Should the bow season be split into two groups, one for recurve and long bows and the other for componds, should rifle season be split into two seasons, one for the old black powder era guns and the other for more modern guns? If you want to talk about a performance gap, look at the cartidge guns, we have the old timers like the 45-70 and 30-30 and at the upper end all the ultra mags. Is if fair to let people hunt with an ultra mag when another wants to use a 45-70?

I think we are wasting a lot of time and effort on such a trivial matter. There are much more important matters we should be spending our time on, like keeping the anti-hunters from stopping our hunts, keeping the wolves under control so they don't eat so many game animals there are non left for us, and keep the anti-gun crowd from banning our firearms all togther.


I actually agree with much of that...no eason for a seperate season for any firearm so far as I am concerned...trradtional muzzle loader, in-line muzzle loader, BP cartridge, or modern smokelss, everyone hunts at the same time under the same rules.

Colorado went through the process of separating traditional ML's from inlines several years ago. I was a sham. The makers if inlines and outfitters who guide inline hunters overwhelmed the traditionalists with arguments that "inlines offer no advantage, they're still ML rifles.
What they said to the DOW is very different from what they say in their advertising and what we all know to be true. Traditional ML's are 100 yard guns with round ball or Minies. Modern inlines are now true 200 yard guns and no reason they cannot soon be 300 yard guns. Many inline makes can litterley be thrown into a pond, pulled out and fired. You no longer have even to "keep your powder dry".
It is true that inlines load from the front but with powder pellets attached to the sabo they can be reloaded almost as fast as a singleshot centerfire, which in reality is what they really are.
Special seasons for "primitive firearms" were set up especially for those hunters willing to handicap themselves by using primitive equipment. Inline rifles were designed to eliminate the handicap as much as possible while still legally qualifying. They are "rule beaters" plain and simple, and any honest person would admit that.
Why do I care what you hunt with? The same reason archers don't want to share their season with crossbows, because any boob can shoot one of those. The traditional ML rifles requires a lot of time and effort to learn to master. I've been at it over 50 years and am still learning. The inline hunter just takes the rifle out of the box, loads up according to instructions with the accessories supplied and he's ready to hunt. Hopefully he does at least fire a few on the range to get sighted in, but once that is done, he can put it away at the end of season just like his other centerfires, pull it out next year and go hunting.
Thus, Primitive seasons are no longer for just the few who are willing to handicap themselves in equipment. Inlines make it easy for anyone who wants to take advantage of the extra season. And take advantage is exactly what they do.
In many cases inlines do have have longer range than traditional rifles. So once again, how does my hunting with an inline ruin your hunt. This is an eletist attitude I saw when I started archery. Our club was about 80 percent compound and 20 percent recurve. The traditional archers felt they were the elite and we were just a bunch of people who could not or would not learn to shoot a recurve.
The point is one person hunting with rifle (A) does not have any bearing on the outcome of the next person hunting with rifle (B).

I think ribbonstone hit the nail on the head. Here in Idaho we have seperate seasons for archery, centerfire rifles, two seasons for black powder shooters and a short range weapon season.

Pretty darn confusing and there is always folks looking for an advantage. The big advantage til black powder season was changed was the long range inline guns accuracy past the triditional muzzle loaders.

I've got to admit I bought one that would do elk out to 200 yards with no problem. It was perfectly legal and lots of folks were doing the same.

I've owned several muzzle loaders, but was more of a shooter than a hunter. I looked at the muzzle loader as a way of extending my hunting rather than for the shear pleasure of shooting a muzzle loader.

When the seasons were changed where I couldn't use that long range inline I went back to the regular rifle season.

Lots of folks that bought inlines here in Idaho to take advantage of the late muzzle loader elk season were unhappy over the rule changes. It sure made for bunches of inlines on the used gun market.

My Rem 700 ML ended up getting sold at the last gunshow I was at and a brand new Mossberg 835 camo turkey gun replaced it.

There's still an old CVA 50 cal swinghammer in the safe, but it's really more of a take out and shoot plinking gun than a hunter. You can't use scopes on it for hunting and my eyes really need optics to hunt with anymore.

Bottom line is there are a new crop of muzzle loaders with swing hammers that are looking to extend ranges and still be legal by definition for the traditional muzzle loader hunting season.

I look to seeing a bunch of rule changes happen over the next few years. Technology just keeps working on making muzzle loaders better and better.

What Idaho has done seems just so silly. Regulating the appearance of a gun. Oh, they did eliminate sabots in the traditional season. That is the only thing they did that would somewhat limit the max range of the guns. But what did they accomplish by prohibiting the in-line guns?? The answer is "Nothing" at least from a performance standpoint, pellets don't increease performance, 209 primers don't increase performance, the type of action does not increase performance. They don't allow scopes so that isn't a factor. So with open sights how far can Joe average hunter hit a target? I can't speak for others but myself, I'm not comfortable shooting much past 150 yards with open sights regardless of the gun. I don't know how many times I've heard of guys shooting round balls at animals out to 200 yards and better. To me the paranouya about shooting animals at 200-300 yards is just fantasy. It all comes back to what the gun looks like. And I have to call BS on that.

I farm in SE Iowa and hunt for food (we don't buy hamburger), recreation (live to hunt), deer herd managemant and to reduce crop damage.
I see no reason why the "traditionalist" shouldn't be allowed to use antiquated weapons during the muzzleloading season. I also see no reason why the traditionalist should be prevented from wearing hand sewn deer skin clothing while hunting. I have a replica Hawken 50 in my gun cabinet. I hunt with a compound bow as well. The reason I have these different weapons is to be able to enjoy deer hunting from the first of October through January rather than a couple of weeks during shotgun season in December. I personaly prefer to use modern technology where ever possible. That includes my Savage Model 10 smokeless muzzleloader with a Leupold scope, scentlock cammo clohing, goretex rain gear and thinsulate to keep warm.
Just because we have different tastes in our recreational pastimes is no justification to outlaw one approach through legislateive fiat. There are plenty of deer to go around, just ask the insurance companys or any farmer here in the upper midwest.

Just looked in the Websters second college edition new world dictionary of the american language.

Muzzleloader: Any firearm loaded through the muzzle.

Just a simple defanition is all we need.
Yes, that is simple, but today it is no longer adequate. We all know what a traditional ML is, but to define it in legal terms is quite complicated. Cowboy shooters have a clause called "spirit of the game" meaning just because something slips through a loop hole in the rules does not mean it is OK if it clearly gives an unfair advantage and is not in the spirit of the game.
Why I object to inline MLs is the same reason so many people use them, it gives an unfair advantage and is not in the spirit of the game.
How does that hinder me? Because now the "primitive season" is about as crowded as the rifle season. Back in the seventies it was rare to encounter other hunters during the ML season. Now thousands of hunters "take advantage" of the season because inlines have made it easy for them. EASY and PRIMITIVE don't belong in the same sentence and inlines and traditional don't belong in the same season.
I don't suggest there should be a separate season for inlines, I suggest they be considered what they are, single shot centerfire rifles. Then let them have scopes, sabos and smokeless powder if they like. Modern inline MLs have advanced to the point that there is no need for a special season as they are under no handicap at all. I hunt centerfire season with an old Savage M-219 singleshot 30/30 and do not feel at all handicapped by it, I prefer it to my M-70 Winchester because it is lighter and easier to carry. Modern inlines with sabots have better ballistics than my 30/30 so why would they need a separate season?
I think Colorado DOW did come up with a reasonable compromise by eliminating smokeless powder, pelletized powder , sabots and scopes but that does nothing to reduce the number of nimrods. And by the by, most inline hunters still do run sabots and pellets because they know the chances of being spot checked by the DOW are slim. If you were a DOW officer would you look down the bore of a loaded rifle to see what is down there?
I am in favor of limiting the ML season to flintlocks and round balls only. I presently hunt with a percussion rifle but would not object to getting a flinter if that were the requirement. Or, for that matter, just limit it to round balls only.
Nothing "elitist" about it. Just be honest with yourself. We all know what primitive weapon means and we all know that the whole point and purpose of inlines is to eliminate the primitive aspect while still slipping through the loopholes.
That is not at all in the spirit of the game, in fact the whole point of the rule beater guns is to eliminate the spirit of the game.

I don't agree about putting in-lines in with cartidge guns, for one reason, they are still muzzleloaders and they still have the same reloading penalty as all muzzleloaders have.

What I don't understand is why if someone chooses to use a flinter and roundball why that person can't just accept the challange, be proud that they can do it the hard way. Why is it that some think that if he uses the most primative that then everyone else has to do it too??? Like I said earlier, I don't see cartridge hunters who shoot black powder era guns complaining about the unfare advantage of those who shoot the lattest ultra mags. Why should muzzleloading or archery be any different.

I hear what your saying about more people in the woods. But guess what, every year our population increases. The more it increases the more crowded it's going to get, and that isn't just in the muzzleloader seasons, it's everywere. The only way your going to do something about that is to start population control and I don't see that happening any time soon.

WOW interesting opinions. My self I don't think it matters what type of ML you use. I have a CVA side hammer that I started with in the late 80s and I can load it faster with loose powder than I can my inlines. The patched balls go down easier than the sabbots. I brought home every deer that I shot at with the CVA in 5 years of using it. Now I shoot Knight inlines and I love them. I don't think the ballistics are close to any centerfire cartridges. The bullets I shoot drop about 14-15 inches at 200 yards with two pyrdex pellets. I suppose there are some advantages with in inlines, but not that much. My point is, be glad that we all still have this freedom to choose our weapon of choice to hunt with. I choose the inlines because I like them. Just like the person who chooses the flintlock, becasue they like them. I would hunt right next to him and give him a high five when he shoots a deer. Lets hope we always have this freedom. Let the states make differnt seasons. Its no big deal, if you live in that state hunt the season you like. For me I like to hunt them all with all types of firearms and bows. The more I get to hunt the happier I am. Just my two cents worth.

"...I don't know how many times I've heard of guys shooting round balls at animals out to 200 yards and better..."

What an amazing statement...I haven't been in this ALL my life but I've been in it for 16 years and by contrast I've NEVER heard of anyone doing what you just said.

Where do you live and what people are you referring to that have made all these claims of shooting roundballs at animals at 200yds.....or better.....???

I live in Idaho, used to live in Washington, I'm 48 years old and have been hunting for over 30 years, muzzleloading for 25. Over the years, conversations with numerous people, posts on various forums on the web, some I do not know names, some are friends, or friends of friends, but I assure you I have heard people boast about making 200 yard kills on deer and elk with round balls. I cannot varify what they said, I did not see them make the shot, they may have been blowing smoke. But when someone tells me something I give them the benefit of doubt that they are truthfull. I also have no doubt that a good marksman or lucky shooter could hit and kill an animal with a round ball at 200 yards. It is not something I would recomend, in fact I would hesitate to shoot any muzzleloader with open sights beyond 150 yards regardless of the type of projectile or load, that is my personal limit.

[QUOTE=
Why I object to inline MLs is the same reason so many people use them, it gives an unfair advantage and is not in the spirit of the game.
How does that hinder me? Because now the "primitive season" is about as crowded as the rifle season. Back in the seventies it was rare to encounter other hunters during the ML season. Now thousands of hunters "take advantage" of the season because inlines have made it easy for them. EASY and PRIMITIVE don't belong in the same sentence and inlines and traditional don't belong in the same season.

The only way this advantage is unfair is if we are competing for the same animal or for some reason you are not allowed to use an inline yourself. When I hunt I am not competing against others , I am there for my own enjoyment. I don't care what you use.
All the of seasons are getting more and more crowded all the time and if you think kicking those pesky inlines out of "your" traditional season will give you the woods all to yourself you are just plain wrong.
The way I see it this is about a bunch of "traditionalists" who just don't want to share the same season with someone who carries a different looking gun.

This years ML season in MN prohibits the use of "Nitro or Smokelesss" powder ML firearms during the regular ML season.

As it should be...sounds like the citizens and wildlife department in Minn. have their heads screwed on straight...kudos to intelligent people making intelligent decisions.
As a person who owns and shoots both a sidelock and an inline I would have to say this sounds like alot of crying from a bunch of babies who don't want to share the woods with people carrying those "newfangled" rifles.
When I was about 8 years old my dad bought a hawkins .54 from dixie gunworks. I used that rifle to make my first muzzload kill and have hunted with it many years. I love that old rifle and still use it. I also have an inline I bought about 10 years ago and use it from time to time. Here in Iowa it is still my choice which rifle to hunt with. As it should be. My dad no longer hunts but shares the same opinion as many of the so called traditionalists. This makes for some rather interesting dabates. I guess that as a somewhat younger person who grew up around both types I am not prone to as opinionated as some who came before me. It is hard for me to take up a side for one or the other as I love to shoot them both. When I was younger we did the buckskinner thing and it was a lot of fun. I still have the rawhide possibles bag my dad made from the first deer he killed with that old .54.
I would still have to say that as someone who uses a sidelock I don't feel threatened by those terrible inlines.

My, my. It has been a while since I visited the muzzleloading thread, and I must say, the "air in here" has certainly changed from my last visit. This post may be a tad longer than I originally anticipated, but I implore you to read and consider my thoughts.

There is no need for rudeness or name calling on a topic such as this. The truth is, plain and simple, new production inline muzzleloaders do contain certain advantages over the traditional muzzleloader. Inline production rifles offer easy scope additions, have better weather-proofing qualities, use enhanced powder and bullets, and are easier to obtain good accuracy than traditional muzzloaders. There is no disputing these facts and these new guns are made to achieve all these benefits.

If one hunter chooses to shoot or hunt traditional then I salute them. Especially those who prefer the flintlock. I would have starved to death if I had to live off the game I killed with a flintlock. Have tried to get used to the explosion so close to my face, but I just cant do it accurately.

That brings me to my biggest point. I have hunted with muzzleloaders nearly all my life and I have not missed a season since my 16th birthday. I killed my first dear with a traditional sidelock 50 cal. muzzleloader using 100gr of FFF and spit-patch and round ball. I have killed several other deer with that same setup and I have lost a couple too. I then moved up to a .58 caliber musketoon that shot 50gr of FFF and a 500gr minie ball. I killed more than 10 deer with this setup and lost a couple as well. Now I know all my shots on the lost deer were probably not perfect, but I don't shoot unless I am confident of a good killing shot. In fact I tracked a doe that had been shot through the heart with that 58 caliber minie ball for over three hours.

I have since started using a scoped inline muzzleloader. I use 2, 50gr Pyrodex pellets capped with a 295gr copper jacketed HP Powerbelt. I have shot at and killed 15 deer with this set up. All but two died within 15 yds of the shot. Most of them hit the ground and never got up.

I am a believer in what I have seen, ballistically. I have no question that the new guns and bullets are superior in performance to the traditional setup. However, I also truly believe that the new technology is more humane and provides quicker kills, which in turn results in less wounded deer and a better image for the muzzleloader hunter. I have used and still enjoy shooting the traditional guns. However, I feel it is my responsability as a hunter to do all I can do to quickly and humanely harvest the game that I hunt. From my experience, the new technology is more humane. But I don't hold anything against those who choose to hunt traditional. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be and I prefer a scope to pinpoint my aim. If this helps others to do the same then I feel that the quarry deserve it.

This is very similar to the argument posed against those who choose to hunt with a crossbow. I have been unable to bowhunt the last 8 seasons because I do not feel that I have practiced enough to constantly hit my target time and time again. I used to shoot competition and even placed 3rd in the state during competitions at one time. However, targets and animals are two different circumstances. I just don't trust my aim with a bow and arrow at a deer if I don't practice for weeks at different angles and distances. No complaining, but I just don't have the time. I purchased a crossbow this year and have been hunting this season. Does it give me an advantage? Yes. Do I feel more confident? Yes. Will the deer that I shoot at have a better chance at a quick and humane death? In my opinion, Yes. I still have the same distance limitations as those who use compound bows, but I do not have to put in as much practice as I would with a bow. I still don't think I am cheating any other bow hunters, as I still have to get within 30yds of my game and I still have to place a good killing shot. But, I feel more confident, hence the likelyhood of a bad shot is not as great. The same can be said of the modern, inline, scoped, pellet firing muzzleloader.

Life is too short to argue over things such as this. That is why groups started scoring antlers. So they could argue over 1/32nd of an inch of antler, which I think is a bunch of bull pucky in the first place. I don't hunt for antlers, never have and never will. I hunt for the sport and the meat. A doe or a cow is just as filling as a buck or a bull, and I don't need a saw to remove the headgear! I don't hold judgements against those who do hunt only for heads. But that is a topic for another thread.

I just hate to see a thread get into a spitting match.

Thread closed.