Don't bet on it! After reading some posts on this series of Marlins, I started wondering if the past groups shot with mine were a figment of my imagination!
The Marlin in question....is my 1894P-16 1/2" barrel-265 gr TCW-25 grs WW296-WWLP. Not much has been done to this little rifle, but being shot a lots over tha past two years. Not fire lapping, but a little action smoothing up. The bullet is one John Anderson and I designed for postive feeding in the 1894's.....but I have shot a lot of Marshall's bullets back when we were testing lube!
Now....I went to our 50 yard range. This 1894 has an aperture sight (with a Merit adjustable disk) and a standard gold front sight. I stacked two bags that I could rest my left hand on and crranked off 5 shots......all within (note I said within) 2" at 50 yards! Then I shot anouther 5 shots and got the same group size!
Now, I have some custom rifles that have survived the junk table at gun shows over the past 30/40 years that I can, if I have to, reach way out and touch something. But, just what was the 1894's designed for after all.....a brush gun pure and simple! I admire the efforts of our forum friends that try to tighten up groups with this series guns......but I for one, do not need a brush gun that shoots closer groups than this gun/load in the swamps/islands we hunt. I don't even know how many deer/hogs/river pests I have killed with this gun......it's just a truck/boat/walking tool! If some of the new crowd read some of these post, they would steer away from the 1894's and that would be sad indeed!
If, and note I say if, you have one that will not group within 2" at 50 yards, I would have either the rifle, loads, or shooter checked out!
Regards, James

Mr Gates, I totally agree with you on this issue. A Levergun is a Handy gun. The Portability and handling characteristics of these rifles are more and become even more instictive when one familiaizes themselve with it. Besides that, what about the History , and folklore that surrounds this design...nuff said.

James, Thanks for keeping us in check.


Dbergero

I have to brag on my 1895 Guide Gun. Went to the range Friday. The first 4 rounds I fired at 100 yards went through the same hole!!! These little guns are a real hoot to shoot. They were handloads of 50 Gr IMR 3031 behing Remington 405 gr. bullets. Amazing.

I have to agree I have 1894's in 32 mag, 25-20, 218 Bee, 357 mag, 44 mag, and 45LC. The only one that has had anything done to it is the 32 mag. I put a WW trigger in it a few weeks ago. Each and every one of them are shooters. accuracy isn't an issue thats for sure :D

May I remind you the complaint was very vocal about the Marlin 1894 series. I was just concerned that a potential Marlin 1894 buyer would consider them inaccurate.
As for brush rifle accuracy......what do you really want? If I put a scope on this 16 1/2", with the same load I mentioned.....I am sure it would have grouped even better.
With all due respect to this forums members......sometimes we get a little away from the real world of brush hunting.
Regards, James

I love my Marlin .357 1894C. First shots I ever fired in it were some of the Hornady jacketed/ 2400 powder loads that I use in my Ruger Stainless BH. Made a three-ring 'Ballentine' sign at 25 yards, and an inch-and-a-half group at 50, with a cheap little Williams 5D peep and a Redfield Sourdough front. That was way back in 1981. This little pre-safety Marlin is my 'go-to' gun for sure. It shines with hardcast Keith lead bullets, 125 grain hollowpoints in .38 Special cases, and factory 180 Black Talons (I have a small supply that I save for very special occasions.) The Microgroove barrel handles lead just fine, so long as the bullet is fat, long and heavy for caliber. This little slugger is light on the rear end, but a heavy hitter.
Everybody ought to have one behind the door!

The old 8" pie plate at 100yds was in respect to the boiler room on a whitetail. I don't have a problem hitting it offhand with peep firesight combo on my .357CB. Benching it produces 1.5 to 2 inch groups at 100 that equates to head shots on rabbits. 50yds all holes touch. Bad accuracy can be cured, so can bad shooting unfortunately bad advertising affects more than a few. My challenge is to bring your bad shooting 94 Marlin to me and leave me with a small pile of cash and in a few days it will shoot well. If it don't for you, then the problem is yours not the rifles. I once bought a shot out M70 win (or so said the guy that sold it to me to his friends) in 30-06 three days later I was shooting chicken eggs at a bench novelty match with it the range 200yds. Most accuracy problems with a 94 marlin are in the heavy trigger pull and improper loads, bbl bands can be relieved to float a bbl, a forestock can be relieved to float also. This eliminates the bbl heat up and stringing problems.

i can all but strike matches with my 1894,at 50yds it shoots around a half to three quater inches high and comes back at 100yds pretty much dead on,i have owned alot of guns in my time but it`s the only 44 i have ever had this accurate. :)

May I remind you the complaint was very vocal about the Marlin 1894 series. I was just concerned that a potential Marlin 1894 buyer would consider them inaccurate.
As for brush rifle accuracy......what do you really want? If I put a scope on this 16 1/2", with the same load I mentioned.....I am sure it would have grouped even better.
With all due respect to this forums members......sometimes we get a little away from the real world of brush hunting.
Regards, James

Mr Gates I have read some of your posts. Wondering what you base your statments on ? Seems to me if Marlin 1894 mikes a 431+ bore and you bought unknown to you some winchester . 429 sized jacketed bullets, or the standard .430 lead pill that you can only get here in Canada , A fellow should be told BEFORE BUYING a Marlin .44. The only way I am going to get an .432 bullet is if I made them myself.
If I had known my past 45/70 was really a .460/70 I would never had bought the thing , since they do not make bullets for that one either.
Now should we object to the mismatch of sizing of barrel and jacketed bullets and stop buying the product something would be in the works,to resolve this issue.

I believe the person just assumes the barrel sizing will match the box of bullets sold for the rifle. There-fore I think some one either making the product, or selling ,should inform the buyer that he might best not assume.

As we go to the shoe section and pick out a size ten boot and put it on -"We" assume it then will be a size ten boot then not 10 1/2 The tag said size TEN .

If we bought a new car and the crank bearings had a clearance of three thou. instead of one, and the engine knocked , would you accept the knock ? No .Then if the machines were assembled this way in full knowlege , then the buyer should be so informed . Would you tell them then it was build for the smaller country roads and drive slower?
So why buy a Marlin with an overbore barrel and two restictions . One under the dove tail for the front site the other near the stamping near the rear of the barrel . Why not inform Marlin we are not going to accept this , so please do something with what otherwise is a wonderful product.


I think with due respeck to you sir, bush hunting refers to a light short gun that can be bought into battery quickly, and should be able to harverst an animal maybe to 150 yards or so.Now with a 6 to eight inch group we then might be best served with scatter guns or borrow Grampa's ol' 44/40,or a good 30/30 winchester that will do the job@ 150yards plus or for the quick snap shot @ 25 yards in thick cover as well.

Or are we trying to push sloppy workmanship on a man that has probably worked darn hard for his Money?

Well now! For your infomation factory .44 bullets have been shipped in many diameters since 1956. The earliest .44 jacketed bullets to be above .429" were Norma's Tri-Clad at .430". Jacketed .44 bullet cores are somewhat soft and recovered bullets show they bumped up to groove size. With a little checking, you will find a great deal of different in bullet diameters vs groove diameters in many present guns of various calibers. For the most part these give outstanding accuracy.
The real problem arises when hard cast undersize bullets are shot in an oversize groove barrel. It is here that final bullet sizing is important. In the revolver, it is most important that the diameter of the chamber throat is correct. I loaded .432" hard cast in my Marlin 1894P all the time and have also shot loads with .431" bullets.
What we are discussing here is not shoe size? This dicussion began when a broad statement was made in another post that Marlin 1894's were not accurate......which is incorrect.
There have been many posts stating that their Marlin 1894's were very accurate......that should satisfy most.
By all means shoot what you consider is best! I will point out that Marlin guns have no more constrictions than any other firearm of the same basic design. There is an overlooked fact also. Marlin barrels, along with NEF's, are made on the latest hammer forge equipment ans have a consistancy that can not be matched by other rifling methods.
But you are not interested in the many posts, along with mine, ststing that in fact Marlin 1894's are accurate.
Quite frankly, I am not sure just what is the purpose of your post? Regards, James

I have to agree with Harry. I love Marlin rifles, but you never know what you are getting when you buy a Marlin. I do know that I keep five boxes of lapping bullets (30 cal, 35 cal, 41 cal, 44 cal, and 45 cal) along with a good supply of lapping compound for Marlin rifles. I know that RC models are going up in price and people prize them because they shoot better than modern Marlin rifles. A person should be able to purchase a new Marlin and not have to work on the trigger pull, lap the barrel, adjust the band screws or purchase a lever big enough for gloves in cold weather. And I agree with Harry that a brush gun is a short, accurate rifle capable of quick follow up shots. Brush gun should not mean an inaccurate rifle. Compare how well the RC models shoot to current production models and tell me that quality has not gone down hill. What other rifle is it common knowledge that there is a good chance you will have to lap the barrel on a new rifle, purchase a Happy Trigger (or file the shear to reduce trigger pull) or adjust parts to get acceptable accuracy?

I would submit this to those folks who think Marlin is the only mfg. that has variations in their rifling.

For those Browning A-bolt shooters- check your and then check a few others. Variations will appear in a broader range in the less expensive versions and the range of variation will shrink somewhat as you go up into the pricier models.

A friend has the S/S Stalker that he purchased new in 2003. He has good optics on it yet from the bench it will not group better than 3". He is still searching for the load that this critter likes.

At a gun shop I visit often, a small group of folks purchased the S/S Ruger 77's. Several returned them saying they would not shoot. If true, this would at least pose the question of- " Is this just endemic to the Marlins?"

As for myself- I believe I will continue to read and absorb the information Mr. Gates puts out to us.

I have to agree with Harry. I love Marlin rifles, but you never know what you are getting when you buy a Marlin. I do know that I keep five boxes of lapping bullets (30 cal, 35 cal, 41 cal, 44 cal, and 45 cal) along with a good supply of lapping compound for Marlin rifles. I know that RC models are going up in price and people prize them because they shoot better than modern Marlin rifles. A person should be able to purchase a new Marlin and not have to work on the trigger pull, lap the barrel, adjust the band screws or purchase a lever big enough for gloves in cold weather. And I agree with Harry that a brush gun is a short, accurate rifle capable of quick follow up shots. Brush gun should not mean an inaccurate rifle. Compare how well the RC models shoot to current production models and tell me that quality has not gone down hill. What other rifle is it common knowledge that there is a good chance you will have to lap the barrel on a new rifle, purchase a Happy Trigger (or file the shear to reduce trigger pull) or adjust parts to get acceptable accuracy?
Mr Taylor.
I am happy some people can read and understand a view point based on Fact. Rifle barrels are becoming a problem with some of the Marlin line. Mr Gates points out that 44 jacketed bullets of various sizing , but most folks already know the difference between the older 44/40 and the 44 Mag.
(Now the 44/ 40 has been opened up to take the same dia. bullet as the 44 mag. )
Then we read about the Browning rifle that will not shoot. Well the poor lad problably will be working for some time trying to get a combo to shoot in this rifle only to find out later that there is something wrong with the rifle.

Well they all can not be perfect granted . When you send a rifle back after buying ten pounds of powder and box's of bullets, you do not need to be told the rifle is with in the "new " Sammi Spec, and or firelapping is gonna solve your problem.
Machine shops can work with in torances not possable thirty years ago. So when I get out my made in 1954 336/35 RC,(that may well have had a final fitting by hand) shoot it and after all these years still group , the machine that cut the rifling operated by a human hand could get the job done, and the rifles were sold to shoot.

Mr gates seems to think since his rifle shoots what is acceptable to him, then all Marlins are like that , so stop whinning .Well to those who have a good unit know that some of the rifles left the factory in good order , so they can make a better product . It does cost "Money " to put out a product under tighter control, and in order to make money it is thought better to make a few more and not worry about quality control too much . ( we win some loose some).
Well I have a good 1894 that is not very old that shoots .430 bullets out to 100 yards with a group most are getting @ fifty to seventy five yards .So since I am middle aged wear glass's and never was a crack shot , guess we need to blame the gun. "It is a good one, as well as the 1954 RC version of past.

Now this year I bought a rifle from Finland, the Tikka T3 Battue. Out of the box, a clean patch through the bore and having loaded the mag and shot , found it was ready for the hunt . No adjustments , not trigger work required , just a wipe down and it is ready and it does shoot.
So the folks that make these rifles most also need to play the men in the factory a good wage, and still make a profit. I am sure they have a return depo. and not all rifles make the final grade . But most do shoot very well out of the box.

It does have a stamp on the left rear of the barrel and a cut dove tale . The rifles need to come accross the pond and are still cheap>
Well How do they do that ?

Well Marlin lever rifles can be and are fine rifles. Some times things go a bit wrong and a part should mabe be tossed back in the pile for scrap instead of sent out.
I would rather share in the cost and pay a bit more for the rifle I bought, so my friend might have the same rifle to the same tolerance's . ;)
We need to band together for the good of the whole, not worrry so much that it is just " me" that need to gain the most , at your expense. Look after the pennies and the dollars will come Marlin !!

This seems to be going nowhere. It looks like, from other posts, that the Marlin 1894's seem to please the shooters with accuracy. Of our group down here, I do not know of a single 1894 that does not shoot well?
It may be that there is a lot of talk about these rifles, pro and con, due to the tremendous number sold......and some people just like to tinker with whatever they buy. There also seems to be more hobbyist than hunters floating around on the web. I can only base my statements on what I see, use, and reports that come into my ammo company......and these I have posted.
Whether anyone likes, or dislikes, Marlin guns is up to them.
Marlin has managed to stay afloat while many other companies making similar firearms went belly up....someone out there likes them.
Since this post began, I see very few that agree that Marlin 1894's are not accurate.......so, I will let in lay at that! Maybe you would want to start a poll and get a good cross section of those that agree and those that disagree?
Regards, James

Please look at "the 200 grain beartooth 357" post. Look at Marshall's reply, particularly the last paragraphy where Marshall advises to order a .359 bullet size as Marlin's have generious bores. Apparently, his customers have given him enough feed back that he now advises to order oversized bullets. I know when I ordered my 30-30 cast bullets, he advised me to get .310 bullets because Marlin had "generious" bores.

There has been enough said on this forum and the Marlin Owners forum about "Marlin speed bumps" that it should not be a surprise to anyone about the barrel constrictions.

And you need only pull the trigger on a Marlin to find out that the rifles come with hard triggers. If an independent company can make a shear with a different angle (Happy Trigger), why can't Marlin? And why can't Marlin make there lever loops a little bit bigger?

Like you said, enough has been said and I will let this issue lay.

Excellent posts, but respectfully suggest all bases have been covered so have closed this thread.

Dan