I'm brand new to muzzleloading and have some questions that I get conflicking answers to as follows:
I bought a muzzleloading barrel from Mossberg just to see if I like this type of hunting.
According to Mossberg I should use black powder or pyrodex along with there recommend loads not to exceed 95 grains. They do not recommend any type of plastic patches in which sabots are out of the question I guess.They also say that a patch is not necessary when shooting conicals.
Since the breech on this barrel is one piece and is not removeable, I have trying to decide on what powder to use Pyrodex or Triple 7.

I have also contacted Hodgdon and they sent me a pamphlet which tells me that a fiber wad should be used with all of there powders including pellets. There recommended loads are up to 100 grains.

Mossberg tells me not to exceed the powder manufactures loads and Hodgdon says not to exceed the gun manufactures loads.
Please help if you can with these questions as I don't want to blow myself up.
I want to start shooting but only after I get some answers.

All in all, when in doubt, go with the gun (or in your case,barrel) maker's recomendations.

I liked triple seven. It is very clean to shoot and leaves only a little residue in the barrel that is easily cleaned with water. Usually just one or two patches will do it.

One warning drop your loads 10 percent with 777. It's much hotter than pyorodox. There will be a warning on the container. I'ts very good stuff.

I used to use Pyrodex 20 years ago before this whole in-line and BP substitute thing really got started. I just started muzzleloading again and shot some Triple Se7en. MAN o' MAN is that stuff alot easier to clean up than Pyrodex! Some users have reported a "crud ring" near the breach when using 777. Supposedly this crud ring is reduced or eliminated by using the special reduced power 209 primers. That's what I used and I had no sign of any crud ring.

Don't use a patch with a conical bullet - that's for round balls only. A patch wraps around the ball. A wad just goes under the conical - to seperate it from the powder. I think the fiber wad between the powder and bullet is just to keep the hot gases melting the base of the lead conical and leaving lead all inside your bore.

You should be able to find a good load without going over 95 grains. I'd stick with the lower of the two max loads be on the safe side. Seems strange that Mossberg wouldn't want you to use plastic sabots. I don't know what to tell you about that. Maybe you could give them a call and ask for clarification.

I've yet to find anything that will shoot T7 and while some will shoot Pyrodex, it's just nasty stuff. I use real BP in everything and get the best results with it and it's cheaper too.

You can indeed patch conicals but not in the same manner as a round ball and I definitely will tell you NOT to try this until you have a lot of experience and knowledge of ML's.

I'm no fan of in-lines, I have only one non-flintlock and that's a percussion underhammer and that's only because I haven't gotten around to building a flintlock underhammer yet. My personal feelings are that in-lines are more of a pain in the butt than they are worth, a quality traditional ML is far more easy to work with.

What's the rate of twist on the rifling and the caliber? If it's a .50 with a twist faster than about 1:56 it'll probably like a max accuracy PRB load somewhere between 70 and 90 grains.

Not all conicals are the same and like everything else, you're particular gun is going to tell you what it wants. No matter what, the conical must fit the bore tight enough to ensure it does not slide off the powder while you're carrying the gun, any air space between the projectile and powder can cause catastrophic barrel damage or failure. I also suggest running a wad under conicals because accuracy will usually improve and because it ensures a positive bore seal preventing the initial blow-by. You can use either a nitro card or fiber wad, I've only found slight variations in performance between them when shooting heavy loads. Wad should be sized from .002" to .006" over the groove diameter.

Black powder is measured by volume, not weight. The more consistent your measuring and loading, the more consistent your results will be. Measure accurately and when you seat the ball/conical, do so with the same amount of pressure every time. Pour the powder into the bore slowly and at the same rate each time. The powder will self compact when poured slowly, just like using a drop tube when loading cartidges, variations in how fast you pour the powder in will change it's compaction factor changing the burn rate.

More than likely, they are probably suggesting the use of a wad to help prevent the conical from jumping off the powder when the primer ignites. The initial blast from the primer will often cause the bullet to jump forward before the powder lights off which leads to accuracy and pressure problems.

Never use any petroleum products in the bore or as patch lube, all they do is lead to increased fouling and varnishing of the bore. Don't forget to protect the action from exposure to corrosive combustion products too.

Feel free to email me: markkw@earthlink.net

I'm not at all familiar with your Mossberg, but I'd stick with the manufacturer's recommendations. They should know best about what it will take.

I also haven't tried any of the "new fangled" inlines, so I don't know what they'd work with the best. My experience is limited striclty to traditional style muzzleloaders, but from my experience with them, Triple 7 is by far the winner over Pyrodex. Remember, however, to back off 10% to 15% on your charge with 777 because it's hotter than the other powders. I also think I read somewhere that 777 pellets require a hotter primer, or you'll have ignition problems, but I don't know if this is true or not.

Triple 7 has worked great in all of the muzzleloaders I've tried it in. In fact, all of mine are begging for more.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d70/Gunslinger2005/oc04_009.jpg

Top to bottom:

.45 Cal. Hawken, with 32" Howard Kelley octagonal barrel, 1:22" twist. Sighted in at 65 yards with Lyman 500 grain .458" bullet over 65 grains of 2f black powder & CCI #11 percussion cap. Maximum charge 70 - 75 grains 2f black powder.

.40 Cal. Hawken, with 32" Ed Rayl octagonal barrel, 1:14" twist. Sighted in at 65 yards with Lyman 400 grain .410" bullet, with .40 cal vegetable fiber wad, over 65 grains of 2f black powder. Maximum charge 75 - 80 grains of 2f black powder.

.58 Cal. Hawken, with 36" Green Mountain octagonal barrel, 1:70" twist. Sighted in with .570" round ball, with .015" patch, over 100 grains of 2f black powder. Maximum charge 140 grains 2f black powder.

.36 Cal. Half-stock squirrel rifle, with 31" Green Mountain octagonal barrel, 1:48" twist. Sighted in with .350" round ball, with .015" patch, over 35 grains 3f black powder. Maximum charge 40 grains 3f black powder.

.40 Cal. Half-stock rifle, with 30" Green Mountain octagonal barrel, 1:48" twist. Sighted in with .390" round ball, with .010" - .015" patch, over 30 grains 3f black powder. Maximum charge 50 grains 3f black powder.

All of these shoot 777 just about as well as most of the "real" black powders, and without the need to swab the bore between shots. Clean up afterwards also is much easier. You really do have to back off on the 777 charges at least 10% though, because it's much hotter than reagular black powder.

I did have two Lyman .50 Cal. Great Plains rifles. One was percussion and one flintlock. I never tried 777 in the flintlock, but it shot well in the percussion too. A typical good load for the percussion rifle was a .490" roundball, with a .010" - .015" patch, over 80 - 90 grains of 2f black powder. A maximum charge was 120 grains of 2f black powder. Again, you would have to back off at least 10% with 777.

I also liked 777 in my percussion revolvers. I have a .44 Cal. Armi San Marco 2nd Model Dragoon (top), and a .44 Cal. Pietta 1858 Remington revolver, with R&D .45 Colt conversion cylinder (bottom). The revolvers also shot well with both round balls and conical bullets and 777, but as with the rifles you had to back off about 10% with 777. I never tried reloading cartridges with 777 though.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d70/Gunslinger2005/oc04_033.jpg

The only other thing I might add is that you'll probably have to try various loads in your rifle to see what it likes best.

GS, Nice looking family you have there, build them all yourself?

If you don't mind and it's not too much trouble, I'd like to see a close-up pic of the wrist on #3. Post here or email direct to me markkw@earthlink.net

Thanks
Mark

Mark,

Thank you, but no, I didn't build them. I wish I could take credit for them though. They were built by a friend of mine, Wayne Page. Wayne is a member here and goes by the name "Rifle", but hasn't posted for awhile, because his computer crashed (virus or worm I think).

Here's a little closer view of some of the stocks. The .58 has kind of a double line incised carved diamond pattern on the wrist area. It may not be real authentic as far as Hawkens go, but it gives it a distinctive look. I have some better shots of it, but they're too high a resolution to upload. Sorry.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d70/Gunslinger2005/oc04_011.jpg

I would like to try building a flintlock someday. I would like to try something in either a John Armstrong or Jacob Dickert style longrifle (Track of the Wolf parts). I have pretty good work working skills, but I've never tried carving on a curved surface, or with a wood like curly maple before. :confused: I have a Pennsylvania style percussion kit gun I've been playing with for awhile. I thought I'd try that first, and if I didn't screw it up too bad, then I might something more expensive. We'll see...

Thanks. At first I thought it was a folded basket weave pattern found on some of the more elaborate eastern european long barrel Jeager styles I've been following up on. Info is very hard to find on them, most were built in the Warsaw pact countries. Bore diameters were commonly 16-20mm (.63-.79 cal) and ran 40+ inches in length. The fancier ones have that folded weave and I've been trying for a couple years to figure out how to do it....still trying too.......

I don't really put a lot into the whole PC thing. There were several distinctive pattern guns but if you consider the number and variety of immigrants coming here during that period of time, they all didn't buy their guns from four or five makers. Most built/rebuilt their own with whatever parts they had or could make themselves. Most people put their own personal touches on them too as far as inlays and carvings go. I really feel that there is no wrong way to build a gun from the sidelock era because aside from the few well known makers, there were hundreds of unknown makers and DIY'ers too.

I got a .54 flint half stock a guy wanted then stuck me with. I'm going to doll her up a little before putting it back on the market. Once that one goes, I'm going to start on a long barrel Jeager flint (fellow gave me a highly figured piece of Sycamore Maple from Poland) going with a strait taper .75 around 44" long.