I was just loading up with my new lee 2-die set which only resize the neck instead of the whole case. also of interest there is no crimp and it is only a press fit. this seems to work great for almost all of my brass. the problem seems to come in with the minority of my cases (about 1 out of every 10) they seem to size the neck to large (probably about .001-.002", although I have not checked with a caliper) and the bullet will not stay seated (some of them the bullet would litterally slide out). I tried running them through the resizing die again but that did not seem to help at all as they were still to large (which again is wierd because most of them were good when they went through the resizing die). if anyone has any insight into this problem that would be awesome, I've never reloaded with a 2-die rifle set before so any advice would be appreciated (note: the die set is for 30-06 although that shouldn't matter)

Ah marineman the learning curve with Lee's collet dies, been there. You can polish off a few thousanths from the collet, but try sizing three times turning the case each time and using a good bit of pressure each time. That worked for me when I was just learning to use these unique dies. I use them for a 308 and a 243 and your right the caliber does not matter.

Good luck

When you raise the brass into the die, the neck goes into a hole that's too small, and gets squeezed down. When you withdraw the brass, it springs back again, but not all the way, so it's left smaller than before.

You have one of 2 problems:

1) Some of your brass is too thin. If this is the case, your die will be sizing the outside of the cases all the same, but the few cases that have too-thin walls will have an ID that's too big. So, measure your cases' necks as they come out of the die, and see whether they're all of the same OD, and whether they all have the same wall thickness in the necks.

or

2) The brass springs back too much after coming out of the sizer, leaving both the ID and OD too big. This is caused by the brass having been sized too many times in its life. Each run thru the sizer works the brass a bit, and each time it hardens a bit, cumulatively. The cure for this problem is to anneal the case necks.

The diagnosis requires careful measurements, and you'll need a tool like this, if you don't already have one:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=119623

EDITED: Sorry, my response was for real dies; didn't realize you need the special workarounds to accomodate Lees.

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gmd's observation about annealing is correct. This is the great flaw in the Lee Collet Die concept, as brass work hardens from firing and sizing it will spring back more until it won't hold a bullet, as you have observed. The only way to keep consistent neck tension with these dies is to sort your brass into batches that are loaded together and then anneal the necks every few loadings.

This actually applies to all dies, but is more apparent with the collet die system.

Happened to me loading for my 25-06...had a dickens of a time trying to figure out what was going on but hit on it eventually. Makes you more mindful of annealing.

I'm not sure why these dies have any more problem with spring-back than any others? Both confine the brass to a similar cylindrical space. I can only suppose rearward flow of brass in a conventional die neck helps relieve the strain somehow? Perhaps the anvil rod is preventing some of the relaxation? The big plus with these dies is long case life and the safety factor that the "dreaded donut" that occurs due to brass flow into the neck-shoulder junction of a case that is used a lot with standard dies cannot occur with the anvil rod present.

Nick

It sounds like the die simply needs to be adjusted to take the case deeper. Not much but it solved the problem. You should end up with a snug seat the first time every time. If it is not a matter of adjustment I would be trading in a die.

It sounds like the die simply needs to be adjusted to take the case deeper. Not much but it solved the problem. You should end up with a snug seat the first time every time. If it is not a matter of adjustment I would be trading in a die.

These dies are neck sizing dies only. You cannot adjust them to put the case in deeper. They size the neck against a collet instead of sizing the whole case. Only the neck is sized (squeezed) down by against a solid pilot.

In ordinary dies the neck is squeezed down smaller in diameter then pulled over a plug that brings it back to a specific diameter. The Lee collet neck sizer does not work the brass nor does it require any lubrication. It's a good system, but brass does have to be annealed if it is hardened by several firings and the directions for using this unique die have to be followed pretty closely or the die does not work.

It give you better accuracy and extremly long case life.

faucettb, I'm sitting here trying to recall the instructions on the necksizer die and thinking there is a note saying you can seat the die a quarter turn clockwise for tighter seating of bullet (if they are too loose)??

Like ya'll mine do the same if the die is not set up properly or....if you arent giving the proper pull on the lever (and it does take some elbow steam).

Just a few thoughts to put with the others.

faucettb, I'm sitting here trying to recall the instructions on the necksizer die and thinking there is a note saying you can seat the die a quarter turn clockwise for tighter seating of bullet (if they are too loose)??

Like ya'll mine do the same if the die is not set up properly or....if you arent giving the proper pull on the lever (and it does take some elbow steam).

Just a few thoughts to put with the others.

You need to put at least 15 pounds pressure on the lever and I've found that turning the case three times and applying that pressure makes for much more consistant neck pressure on the seated bullet. I'm sure I'm using much more than 15 pounds each time.

When I first started using these dies I problems with them having enough tension on the case mouth to hold the bullets. I re-read the directions and followed then exactly and no more problems.

You've got to anneal the cases more often when you use these dies. I don't see where this hurts a case at all and that consistant neck tension has made for better groups with my cases even after 20 some plus firings.

When in use the die will actually imprint a visible pattern on the case neck. They are slightly out of round (octagonal shape) because the die doesn't hit the entire surface area of the neck. I turn mine 90 degrees too to get consistency.

To get the die to hit the corners of an octagon it just formed, one should turn the case 22½°, not 45°.

Picky, picky, picky!! :p

I had this problem once with my Lee Collet Dies.
I tried running the case through again, but gave it a little turn in the shell holder. Problem solved.

So now I do it each time and have not had a problem since. The only other time I had an issue, it was the bullet being .001 undersize.

Pretty much the same things Bob is talking about.

thanks that does help a ton in my reloading, I had figured that it must make contact with only part of the case since I saw the marks on the neck, I'll check the diameter and the wall thickness with a caliper just to be sure what i've got, and if I cant get it to work just by turning the case I'll anneal them. awesome help,

marineman

These dies are neck sizing dies only. You cannot adjust them to put the case in deeper. They size the neck against a collet instead of sizing the whole case. Only the neck is sized (squeezed) down by against a solid pilot.

In ordinary dies the neck is squeezed down smaller in diameter then pulled over a plug that brings it back to a specific diameter. The Lee collet neck sizer does not work the brass nor does it require any lubrication. It's a good system, but brass does have to be annealed if it is hardened by several firings and the directions for using this unique die have to be followed pretty closely or the die does not work.

It give you better accuracy and extremly long case life.

Oh yeah, those are what I use for everything except new brass. The first time it took a little fiddling to get the die set right for the proper seat. I had the exact same thing happening, the bullets could fall out of some of those cases. 1/4 to a 1/2 turn later perfection. Adjust incrementally almost like you would to adjust the dead length seater. When it's right it will feel right like the hand prime. I think that is the part a lot of people miss with the Lee stuff. The equipment is more about feel than measurement. It's worked best for me that way anyway.

Oh yeah, those are what I use for everything except new brass. The first time it took a little fiddling to get the die set right for the proper seat. I had the exact same thing happening, the bullets could fall out of some of those cases. 1/4 to a 1/2 turn later perfection. Adjust incrementally almost like you would to adjust the dead length seater. When it's right it will feel right like the hand prime. I think that is the part a lot of people miss with the Lee stuff. The equipment is more about feel than measurement. It's worked best for me that way anyway.
That is what I was trying to communicate in my previous post on the first page :)

faucettb and others, I'm going to try the rotating thing next time I do a batch...thanx for the tip. I rotate when bullet seating so this would make sense.

. . . I'm going to try the rotating thing next time I do a batch...thanx for the tip. I rotate when bullet seating so this would make sense.

I'm having one of those curiosity-killed-the-cat thoughts here (though in this case it might be the die that dies). Harold Vaughn, in Rifle Accuracy Facts, illustrated a case neck which he had sized with a section of larger (than the cartridge caliber) barrel. The lands acted as a negative spline (albeit with slow twist), so the only sized portions of the case neck were those under the lands of the oversize barrel section. The result was a neck fat enough where it was not resized that it served to keep the case neck aligned nearly perfectly on the bore axis, while the spline indentations held the bullet. I suppose a bit of blow-by could be expected, so it might not suit for bullets not seated to touch the lands (I'll have to go back and reread that part of the book). But the objective of achieving what a perfectly uniform fireformed case achieves would be met.

This makes me wonder if, instead of fighting the collet marks from a collet sizer die, if it might not make more sense to widen the slits in the collet a little to intentionally form a centering tripod of splines ways on the neck? Instead of rotating the die to make the neck tighter, just run it back up in with the same orientation a couple of times.

Just another dangerous thought that tempts me to do a bit of die grinding. I think I drop this into Lee's suggestion box for them to try.

Nick

That's an interesting thought Nick. Be interested in what Lee says. I really like the collet dies and am having a set made for the 204 Ruger. I've got a set of full length Lee dies and they work well, but like the idea of longer case life from the collet neck sizing dies.

I shoot two 243's and have to keep the brass seperated once its been shot as one fired case from the Ruger won't fit into the Rem 700 if I neck size only. Kind of a pain, but again worth the extra case life.

One thing for sure there is a learning curve with these dies compared to others I've used.