There is no denying that these two types of shotguns are classics in design both in America and Europe. both have their merits, both their uses.

Traditionally, I have found that I see the SxS as a hunters tool, more so than a trap or skeet gun, not that the SxS is not used for field games also.
The O/U is alive and well in the field, but also seems to be the choice of skeet gunners, over the SxS.

Pistol style grips, or straight English style, again, both have merits and shooter preferences. I find that for hunting, is is more comfortable to carry a straight English style stock over the pistol grip, although the older "rounded" style of the Brownings pistol grip tends to lend itself as the best mix of the two. [another example of JMB's genius]

Personally, I have and shoot both. The O/u design tend to point for me just as a pump, semi, or single would: sighting down the barrel's plane, aligning on my target and following thru.

My SxS', however present a w i d e r sight picture; I have found that for my eyes and brain, relying on the width of the barrel-rib-barrel allows me to follow my target more efficiently.

So suppose you were to go out tomorrow, and purchase a new or used upland gun. Which design would be your choice, and why?

Side by side every time for me. I like the look and feel of the sxs best, and am a sucker for old guns, which tended to be sxs. Both my shotguns are sxs.

I like the looks of the sxs, but can shoot the o/u best.

I'm like M1894, the sxs looks dang good but the o/u seems to handle better for me these days. I grew up shoot'n an LC Smith Field Grade that belonged to my Grandfather but kicked like a mule. Later I went with a Savage 311 to protect the LC from hard abuse. I didn't mind the kick back then.
I've used a 20 Ruger Red Label for years now. It's before the factory offered choke tubes but is 3". I use it almost exclusively today.
If I could justify another scattergun, it would be a 28 O/U, probably Ruger or Beretta.

Maybe not so odd...but for field use, would prefer the SXS. MAke it light, straight grip stock, prefer 26" barrels but could make them 1" either way, a bit of cast off, plain extractors, and twin triggers (so long as I'm pretending...make it pretty and in 20ga.).

For most of the "games" would take an O/U...higher cheek...less or no cast off (becasue I shoot them differently...my feet are pretty well and solidly planted for games, not partly tied up in balckberry vies), single trigger, ejectors, heavier weight, 12ga., and probably 28" barrels (although I could deal with 30" if the tubes were well balanced).

Given my choise of make and model, it would be a Dakota Arms GradeII sxs in 16 ga. I had a chance three years ago to try one at a trap range. That gun handled sweet. Never thought I'ld ever find myself shooting a six thousand dollar shotgun.

thank you all for your replies. I do believe that I am leaning toward another double gun, SxS, and it appears I have found a manufacturer here:
http://www.dhshotguns.com/index.html

I saw one at a local clays club, and was amazed at it's balance and finish for under a grand. Made my Stevens 311 feel like a cave man club!

So I'll let ya know how I make out, now to choose a gauge!?!?!!!

Hey now Chris, we're gonna fight if you keep up with them nasty comments!!! The 311 wasn't made to be pretty, it was made to be functional and dependable no matter if you're shooting ducks or using it as paddle! Try doing that with your fancy smanshy pretty double! LOL

I'm a SxS lover too, only ever had one o/u I could hit well with and that was an Ithaca 600 in 12ga but man I could tear up some stuff with the old "cave man clubs" as you put it. The 311's may not even be worthy of mention in the same sentance as a Purdey but they've definitely got a rugged dependable history and you definitely ain't gonna beat the price factor.

Problem is some sorry s.o.b. comes along like Merkel or Purdey and screws up the whole works building a sleek little well balanced light weight sexy double but sort of makes it okay because they attach a matching price tag that makes it little more than a pipe dream bringing me back to the 311 reality world. he he

As for gauge, I've gotten off the "bigger is better" kick unless you're shooting a solid projectile. The sweet 16 has long been a favorite of mine but it tends to be very picky on what load it will shoot consistent pellet distribution patterns with. The 20 is far more versatile and I think it definitely has a edge over all other gauges in producing very consistent patterns over a wide range of loads. I currently own four 20ga guns but at one time I had 14 of them, all different but all ate the same loads equally well despite vast differences in the guns themselves.

In complete opposite of the current "bigger is better" trends, I've gone to much lighter loads with duplex shot loads and use a moderate to slow powder, these consistently out perform every load I've put them against. Recoil is cut a lot but you don't give up anything on the business end, I've only seen vast gains in performance not only on the range but in the field as well.

Last hunter's clays match I shot, I got a lot of grief for showing up w/o all the "special clays" equipment and especially because I had the balls to carry my old 311 20ga to the line! I was #5 of five shooters on that round, first station only two guys hit four of the five birds, single & two doubles. I hadn't shot anything in months let alone clays yet I not only broke all five but actually smoked them to powder. Only the score keeper said, "nice shooting", the others stood there with their jaws on the ground. I finished that round with a score of 24, next fellow behind me shot 18 with his "special clays" equipment. Next round I pushed my luck and pulled out the old plain barrel well used 1937 model 12 also in 20ga and went to the line hiding my ammo from sight. Got some snickers from the new crew of shooters and when I let loose on the first pair of birds, the shock really set in....I was shooting all brass hulls and black powder loads. The smoke and smell were quickly noted and there was no mistaking those shiny hulls coming out of the old workhorse. I only shot a 22 on that round, two others using their "special clays" equipment got a 23 & 24 but I made my point because the average score for the 15 or so rounds shot while I was there only came out to 19....shot less rounds but still had a higher average.

Got off track with that but my vote goes for the 20ga.

LOL!!!!:p:D

Thanks for your comments!

Gauge, Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.


I had a 20 SxS, one of the "better" Baikal [russian] guns, with 5 chokes, ejectors, single selective trigger, semi decent wood and 26" tubes. I could not shoot that gun for love nor money, as I did not fit me. I have a Browning A5 in 20, and do believe that will be the only 20 I ever own.

I replaced the afore-mentioned 20 with the sweetest 16 ever made [in my eyes]; a Stevens 530a, 28" single trigger [not selective] ic/m, that moves, shoots and most importantly fits like it was made for me!!!
I own an old 11-48 in 16 too, but it does not shoot like the Stevens double!!!!



http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1600/682422/5968391/119825317.jpg

I believe that I will go with 12 as my choice, as there are many loads available, different powers, etc...and 16's are becoming harder and harder to find. I'm not yet rolling my own.:(

I'm going to order the 12, with 28" tubes. That'll give me 5 chokes, plenty of choice once I pattern the gun. I'm also going with an English stock, splinter fore-end, as I truly love the feel-and-carry of an English....grace.

DeHaan is offering left handed guns, which suits me too, and if they will build me a left English, you'll see me dancing a jig in the pheasant fields.

I agree also with your comments on the cost of such fine guns as H&H, purdey, etc; but when you realize the amount of HAND labor that goes into hand building these guns, you can appreciate [but not justify] the cost.

I am currently reading "Shotguns and Shooting", by Michael McIntosh. He has an entire chapter outlining the depth of detail incurred in just fitting a stock to an older English gun; You can appreciate the craftsmanship. Another favorite shotgun author of mine is Gene Hill.

NJ hunting is not suited for "fancy" guns.....bramble and heavy brushed woods are not "fancy" friendly. I have my utility grade guns for that. I have been hunting a preserve in Pa. lately, about 4x a year, where there is about 11,000 acres of rolling switchgrass, wheat and light fringe woods....more suited for a "fancier" gun.

So again, in the coming days I will let y'all know what I end up with!

Thanx all!

There is no denying that these two types of shotguns are classics in design both in America and Europe. both have their merits, both their uses.

Traditionally, I have found that I see the SxS as a hunters tool, more so than a trap or skeet gun, not that the SxS is not used for field games also.
The O/U is alive and well in the field, but also seems to be the choice of skeet gunners, over the SxS.

Pistol style grips, or straight English style, again, both have merits and shooter preferences. I find that for hunting, is is more comfortable to carry a straight English style stock over the pistol grip, although the older "rounded" style of the Brownings pistol grip tends to lend itself as the best mix of the two. [another example of JMB's genius]

Personally, I have and shoot both. The O/u design tend to point for me just as a pump, semi, or single would: sighting down the barrel's plane, aligning on my target and following thru.

My SxS', however present a w i d e r sight picture; I have found that for my eyes and brain, relying on the width of the barrel-rib-barrel allows me to follow my target more efficiently.

So suppose you were to go out tomorrow, and purchase a new or used upland gun. Which design would be your choice, and why?

I have a rack full of both overunders and SxS's and love them both. Over the years of shooting skeet and bird hunting with both I have come to the conclusion that for me at least a SxS must really fit me well or I can't hit anything with it and an overunder can almost fit me and I can adjust somewhat and shoot it decently. Just my 2 cents

Mike B.

I can't complain any about the 16ga either, I do have a preference to the 20ga but I can tear 'em up with my 311 in 16ga too. I haven't done as much load building with the 16 as I have with the 20 but I know the 16 is a sweetie too.

Please do follow-up and let us know what you end up with.

Love the look of that DeHass S0, and the price is handsom too. Now if the 16 only came with choke tubes.

I have an old Marlin 20 ga. o/u w/ double triggers...sweet shooting! I came to it from an old single shot 12 ga. so having a 2nd shot was an improvment!

Well, I've been shopping and comparing prices on shotguns, and reading just about every review I could get a hold of over the net.

Last evening I stopped at a local haunt in search of the "right gun", and came home with a beauty of a shotgun.

The Franchi Alcione Field.
12 gauge, 28" tubes.
Single selective trigger. Beautiful wood, remarkable workmanship.

And I did it all for under a grand, before tax and nix.

I know I started the thread about picking up a nice SxS, but this gun fit me, balanced well and comes with a 3 year warranty.

So for SxS's, I be sticking to my Stevens 16, and I'll post a range result asap.

Chris~

Always an SxS and a side lock.

A Spanish made shotgun has my vote every time, only because I cannot afford to walk into Purdy, Holland & Holland.

Arrieta

http://www.kennedyguns.demon.co.uk/arrieta.htm#arri578


AYA

http://www.aya-fineguns.com/ingles/modelos.htm


Just to give you an idea.

A little $6,000 will get you a really nice gun, but it’s easy to spend way over $10,000.


For $2,000 a Ruger Gold Label is just right, a little bulky which would be improved by loosing the 3” chamber.

I like a 12 ga with 2 ¾ chambers, but a 20 ga is really nice too.

Well I got the Franchi out, first to pattern, then for clays.

She patterns right to POA, I used some Federals, Remmies and some Fiocci Golden pheasant.

The Fiocci GP held the most consistant patterns.
So out to do some informal clays...after figuring out the swing and mount, she'll break clays consistantly with just a bit of follow-thru...you really don't even have to think about it.

Personally, I prefer a 26" barrel on an O/U, but got used to the 28's swing and weight quite nicely.

I'm going to have to get out there more, and have even signed on for a winngshooters course that'll explain what I'm doing wrong [old habits die hard] and perhaps improve my edge!

So all in all I am pleased with my "near-a-grand gun", and I'm sure a less-costly gune could do the same, but she's sure refined and easy on the eyes....:cool:

I'll post a pic of her shortly!