Ok I know you wait 30 seconds then eject the round. But I have bever been sure what to do with the round next. call the rangemaster? Throw it on the ground? Or what?
P.s. I ask because Im getting my Walther P99 tommorrow and I have always shot 22 rimfires before. And you know how those are, how you can sometimes just use them again ( I do! I wonder if I should?).How should I handle 9MM?

You can hit them again. If that doesn't do it, its not likely to light up no matter what you do. After that, I tend to disassemble and look for the "why?" part.

Cheezywan

Schpil
If you are concerned about getting a "miss"for the missfire,I can't help you;I have'nt shot competion for a long time.But I agree that most rounds will fire the second time,but not many will,after that.
I can tell you that it's important that ou wait at least a half minute after the primer is hit.I have seen a number of slow ignitions and once,a blowup after a shooter on the range,opened the bolt too soon.
Frank

Tend to agree with the other shooters on trying the misfired round again. Would load the round separately in the chamber rather than include it in a magazine with new rounds. If it doesn't fire on the second try, would discard it in a safe manner rather than take it home and dismantling it. Since the indented primer would be resting on the priming compound, I would not be inclined to either decap it or drive the bullet out with an inertia bullet puller. Rather be safe than to try and salvage anything off the misfire.

Now oddly, my longest hang fire was with a .22LR in a 10/22. Only waited a 10 count...ejected the round (was shooting in a gravel pit) and started plinking again...about 3 shots into plinking, there is a "Flit" sound at my feet.

The offending missfire and turned into a LONG hangfire...ignition at my feet ans shooting the caseback in a kind of leaky sounding "flitt".

On a guess...20 - 25 seconds.


On an indoor range, will tend to keep the muzzle pinted down range for a full 40 seconds...longer if you've the urge...then eject the offender. If at a range with a eager-beaver range officer, would hold the gun down range at a 45degree angle to the ground, raise my hnad, and see if he'll call a cease fire....trust me, some RO's live for that kind of thing.

Misfires are much less common with centerfires than with rimfires. That's one of the reasons rimfires aren't used any more in defensive calibers.

I had a .380 and a .45 that had incorrect firing-pin return springs that limited firing pin hits too much. Had them replaced, and no more misfires.

I've only had 1 lot of primers that has had misfires. It's nearly 50 yrs old, and wasn't stored well. ( That's what one gets for free )

Ok thanks for the advice.
Well I put 100 rounds through the Walther P99 today. I kind of like it, but boy I suck at pistol shooting!
Does anyone have that drawing of a target with descriptions of what you are doing wrong? That looks like a pie chart?
Im low and to the right ( shooting left handed).

I'm low and to the right ( shooting left handed).

I'll assume the sights are adjusted, and you just get fliers low & right…

When I shoot low & left ( right handed ) I'm holding too tight with my pinky. As a flinch, I'm gripping too tight with the pinky at the moment of firing. I put my pinky up on the side of my ring finger, it goes away.

. . .Im low and to the right ( shooting left handed). . .

By far the most common cause is "ambushing the ten ring", otherwise known as "snatching shots" or "yanking" the trigger. Each finger in the hand has one tendon that crosses the palm to insert into a muscle head in the forearm. These are pretty much bundled together at the wrist, as are the muscles in the forearm. This makes it almost impossible to make a sudden strong movement of one finger (the trigger finger) without the others curling in at least a bit at the same time. The way most people hold a handgun, the wrist position causes the curl to be diagonally inward and down. Hence the shots going low and inside.

Even though it seems like the time it takes for the firing pin to strike the primer and for the bullet to get out of the tube is just an instant, it is actually long enough for the gun to be moved significantly off point of aim before the bullet clears the muzzle. The harder the yank on the trigger, the further the pull, so getting excited is a bad idea.

Extreme examples

Several years ago, during a trip to Gunsite, a spec. ops MD who was taking supplementary training was camping next to me. I told what I thought was a good training inadequacy story about a gunfight a friend of mine was in while on duty. My friend was foot patrolling outside a laboratory that had suffered repeated break-ins and was ambushed and shot once in the kidney (he later recovered fully). He was able to draw his weapon and returned fire twice, hitting the bad guy’s gun arm and causing him to go down and lose his gun. The bad guy reached out and picked the gun back up so my friend shot him twice more. Again he loses the gun. Again he goes for it. My friend shoots two more times, and this time the perp’s gun flies loose and skates under the parked car he has fallen down next to. Now my friend has counted that he’s fired 6 of the thirteen rounds in his magazine, but sees the slide is staying back. The bad guy is reaching around under the car for his gun, so my friend makes a reload. My friend then orders the bad guy stop trying to get his gun. He doesn’t. My friend shoots again as the bad guy seems to be getting hold of his piece. This time one round hits the perp in the groin, who responds by saying “OK. I don’t want to die”, then actually stands up and surrenders. Both of them rode to the hospital in the same ambulance. My friend said he could see his Winchester Silvertips made plenty big holes, but they weren’t vital hits. So much for shock effect. The guy was stealing lab equipment for drug making or metering, and was probably high himself.

But the doc had my tale beat all hollow. He described a gunfight between two detectives and a drug dealer (in San Diego, I think, but I'd have to check). Everyone emptied their guns without making a hit. The police reloaded, during which one officer shot himself in the weak side biceps, then they emptied their guns again. I don’t recall whether the bad guy got a reload in or was just shooting more slowly or had more magazine capacity? The biceps was the only hit made by either side during the fight. What made this incident remarkable is that it all took place inside an elevator. I guess you had to be there.

So, the object lesson is, don't get excited. Don’t move the trigger finger abruptly. It is a graduated pressure ramp, even when it must be quickly ramped up. Remember that it isn’t who fires first, but who hits first that counts.

The best practice is “ball and dummy”. Make up some dummy rounds with no powder or primer, then toss them in a box with some live rounds and load your magazines from the box by feel. Look at the clouds or the birds or something while doing it. The trick is not knowing where the live and dummy rounds are in the magazine? When the sear releases, your objective is to keep your eyes open, whether there is a discharge or not, so you can see that your sight alignment remains undisturbed when the firing pin hits a dummy. When it falls on a live round, the recoil will cover this up. Most people discover, to their great annoyance, that when they press the trigger on a dummy, they see the front sight dip low and inside (right for lefties, left for righties). You then need to remove the magazine and dry fire until the trigger press doesn’t move the sights, put the mag back in, cycle the slide and try again. It helps to intentionally decide to keep the sight alignment undisturbed for a full count of “one-one thousand” after the firing pin strikes. This is called follow-through. You can speed up for double taps after you’ve got single shooting trigger work down.

If you are using a standard post front sight, dry firing with a dime balanced on it without dropping the dime is another good excercise. Dry firing at a blank piece of paper so you can spot any sight disturbance is another. The old target shooter's rule of thumb is to dry fire three times for every live round you put down range over the course of time. At Gunsite we were told about two weeks without pressing a trigger (dry firing counts) is about as long as you can go without trigger control starting to deteriorate. They also instructed us to unload guns and magazines and lock the ammunition in a drawer or box in another room before commencing dry fire practice. Good safety advice that all should follow.

Great post, Nick!

Thanks,

The Old Guy

Gunfight inside an elevator? Think I'll pass... makes my ears ring worse just thinking about it!!! :eek:

. . . but boy I suck at pistol shooting!


Don't feel bad. Pistol shooting is a lot harder than it looks. Hollywood makes it look easy. In principle, it's easy. Just align the sights under the bull, squeeze the trigger without disturbing the sights, round goes off and instant bullseye. It's as easy as learning to walk a tightrope. Place one foot ahead of the other, maintain your balance, and walk across the wire.

On a more serious note, if you want to shoot well in a short period of time, get a "how-to" book written by one of the shooting champs and a video too. Follow the instructions and practice, practice, practice. You don't have to burn a lot of ammo but what you burn, you have to burn diligently. Good shooting is NOT spray and pray, it's hand and eye coordination and you have to stay focused to do it right. Good luck with your pistol shooting.

Very good advice nick.
Well I got better today! I think I'm less excited. 15 yds everything is on the target ( not bullseye). But at 25 HAHA LOL. I'm more accurate with my bow and arrow!
BTW I got my first misfire with Magtech rounds. I asked the range, and they said just throw it on the ground. So much for safety!
Yes I have been dry firing during the week and it has helped a lot.
And I find CCI Brass works well for me. Plus they are cheaper than even Win white box. Which I have found are really dirty, my finger sand the gun get covered in gunpowder with white box, but not with CCI. I think I'll stick with CCI, it's $2 cheaper a box also.

… Each finger in the hand has one tendon that crosses the palm to insert into a muscle head in the forearm. These are pretty much bundled together at the wrist, as are the muscles in the forearm. This makes it almost impossible to make a sudden strong movement of one finger (the trigger finger) without the others curling in at least a bit at the same time. The way most people hold a handgun, the wrist position causes the curl to be diagonally inward and down. Hence the shots going low and inside.

To connect this to my prior post…

Make a loose fist with the shooting hand. Squeeze first with just the trigger finger, and then just the middle finger. With either of these, the hand holds its basic shape.

Next, squeeze just the ring finger, and then just the pinky. With these two, the fist does change shape by rolling the bottom of the fist towards the palm. It's this deformation of the fist that rolls the barrel down and to the palm side of the fist ( left for righties, right for lefties).

Now, put the tip of the pinky up on the ring finger. Now, no matter how you squeeze, you can't get the lower edge of the fist to roll over toward the palm.

All that Nick said is true, and, additionally, I've found pinky control to be helpful, too.

. . . I've found pinky control to be helpful, too.

That's a new one on me. It has some individual ergonomics to it. I have a real problem manipulating my hand into the pinky rest, but if I hold it like a British lady drinking tea, out and crooked a bit, I see the effect you are describing. I can still yank the shot low, but the inward component is gone when I am tea-cupping the pinky. Neat trick!

I’ve always had beginners do a couple of things with the full-size 1911. One is to shoot a one-hand hold, firing first with a full grip, then removing the pinky, then the ring finger, then the middle finger, then lifting the thumb out to the side for one shot each. This is to give them confidence the gun can’t rip itself out of their grip in recoil, even when the grip is only between the trigger finger and the thumb/index web. I’ve noticed before that the last shot is not generally yanked inside, but is often high when they try this. Those who are guilty of “healing” the shot in anticipation of countering recoil will still push it low.

I’ve also noticed women are much less prone to trigger jerking than men. They just seem to be able to isolate the motion of their index finger from the rest of the hand better. If you place your weak hand index and middle finger together and grasp them with your strong hand like they were a handgun grip frame, then operate your strong hand trigger finger, you can feel the moving tendons in the palm that push the gun inward, if you are male. If you are female, there seems to be much less of this, and you can have your spouse grip your weak hand fingers to demonstrate the opposite sex version for you.

Now that you’ve alerted me to the pinky effect, I notice that gripping with only the middle finger reduces the apparent tendon motion in my hand. So does tea-cupping the pinky. Tea-cupping the pinky, I also observe, causes some involuntary crooking outward of the trigger finger. That would tend to cure leftward trigger finger push by a person who is letting the lower joints of the trigger finger lay against the frame.

Another beginner exercise I find useful for left and right shot placement bias, is to have them shoot at a blank piece of paper with the objective of keeping their eyes open and on the sights while the gun cycles. I ask them to watch to see whether the front sight consistently falls to the left or the right of the rear notch when the gun recovers its position? If the front sight post recovers consistently left of the rear sight notch, I have them rotate the gun a little to the right in their grip. If it falls consistently to the right, I have them rotate the gun left in their grip. It almost never centers perfectly, but you can find a grip where it is slightly right as often as it is slightly left. This is the most recoil-neutral grip for the individual’s hand, though it often does not prove to be the ideal straight wrist and forearm bone alignment shown in the textbooks. That is individual. The recoil neutral grip helps mitigate a left or right shot placement tendency, since this bias to either side will initiate while the bullet is still in the barrel. It also makes quicker accurate follow-up shots possible.

…shoot a one-hand hold, firing first with a full grip, then removing the pinky, then the ring finger, then the middle finger, then lifting the thumb out to the side for one shot each. This is to give them confidence the gun can’t rip itself out of their grip in recoil, even when the grip is only between the trigger finger and the thumb/index web. …

Funny how complicated it is just to hold a pistol :rolleyes:

At some point in removing fingers, does the 1911 start to fail to cycle - the dreaded "limp-wristing" ?

. . . At some point in removing fingers, does the 1911 start to fail to cycle - the dreaded "limp-wristing" ?

Not a full-size 1911 with hardball, and I don't think a Commander length one will either. It will get in trouble cycling with target loads. The shorter versions of the gun have stiffer springs, so an Officer's Model or other shortie may have more problems. I'd have to try it to see?