Hello. I am new to this forum and I would like to get some opinions.

I have 3 K98 military mausers 8 x 57 that were sporterized. Stocks cut, Barrels canged to 7mm. Bolt turned and drilled and tapped for scope mounts. All work was done by a reputable gunsmith.

My problem is that I can not get any of the 3 to group worth a hoot at 100 yds. I have been shooting Remington 140gr Core Lokt. Correct if I am wrong, but I think that the barrels were reamed for the long round nose bullets and by shooting the Rem Core Lokt I have too much bullet jump before entering the rifling. I have ordered the Stoney point OAL gauge and modified case for the 7 x 57 to check and see just what I have.

If I do find too much bullet jump. How well will the round nose bullets perform for me? I do alot of hand loading for my 270 Win. So making a custom load will be no problem.

Any ideas for me?

This thread should be in the Rifles forum so I'll move it there.

What's your rifling twist and bore & groove diameters?

Bye
Jack

Welcome to the forum, Scott.

Hope you enjoy the board and will join us in the many lively discussions.

The 7x57 is a wonderful cartridge and should be a very accurate one. Sounds like you may be shooting factory loads. Most of the US ammo makers tend to load down the old military cartridges, due to the age and sometimes poor conditions of these vintage rifles.

To really tune your rifles to peak performance, handloading is best. There are many good loads recommended in the various reloading manuals. In my ex-military 7x57, the heavier bullets worked best due to the fast pitch of the rifling. Might want to try some 160 grainers and see how they do.

I'm not sure of the twist in the barrel. I do know that the barrels that I bought were brand new, still packed in the grease rags and not blued. I had heard that some of the barrels had some extra room for the long round nose bullets. The only rounds that I can find factory are the Rem 140gr. I will be ordering the dies and try to load up some different rounds and see what works best. My father-in-law reloads for his 6.5 swede and the 7x57. I have not seen him shoot, but I have seen the 100 yd targets with 3 shots and all touching each other.

If you have a good cleaning rod (and if you don't you should) with a ball bearing handle you can quickly and easily measure the twist of your barrel.

Get a tight patch started in the bore, make a mark on the rod with a fine tip sharpie marker and measure the distance the rod has to traverse to make your mark rotate one revolution.

It doesn't really matter, you already have the barrels, its just one of those things thats nice to know.

Doggone it, I cannot recall the specifics but I recently read an article that stated that by WW2 the standard German military load for the 8X57 was a 150 gr. bullet right at 3000 fps. I remember thinking this confirmed my Dad's impression that the stuff being fired at him was somewhat more powerful than what he was shooting back (15 @ 2700).

Of course, you don't give production dates for your Mausers, so we don't know what load they were originally rifled for, nor do we know how much throat erosion they have. It could well be that something longer, like a 170, might fill the bill.

Doggone it, I cannot recall the specifics but I recently read an article that stated that by WW2 the standard German military load for the 8X57 was a 150 gr. bullet right at 3000 fps. I remember thinking this confirmed my Dad's impression that the stuff being fired at him was somewhat more powerful than what he was shooting back (15 @ 2700).

Of course, you don't give production dates for your Mausers, so we don't know what load they were originally rifled for, nor do we know how much throat erosion they have. It could well be that something longer, like a 170, might fill the bill.


... and now I realize that yours have been rebarrelled to 7x57, so "Never mind!" :confused:

I'm not sure of the twist in the barrel. I do know that the barrels that I bought were brand new, still packed in the grease rags and not blued. I had heard that some of the barrels had some extra room for the long round nose bullets. The only rounds that I can find factory are the Rem 140gr. I will be ordering the dies and try to load up some different rounds and see what works best. My father-in-law reloads for his 6.5 swede and the 7x57. I have not seen him shoot, but I have seen the 100 yd targets with 3 shots and all touching each other.
One thing you should try is to shoot some 175 gr. ammo to see how it shoots. You can also try some Federal 140 gr. Are the barrels you used commercial currant manufactor or are they surplus military from WW II, If they are surplus barrels that could be a problem. I suspect the barrels because they are all shooting poorly. Next would be how the barrels are bedded. Was there any glass bedding? If you are still using the two stage military triggers this could contribute to some of the accuracy problems. The long throat will not normally make any difference in hunting accuracy. Weatherby has always used long throats. I would concentrate on the barrels and the bedding. Of course some handloads will make a difference. How bad is the accuracy. If they are surplus barrels you may be expecting too much.

Frank

If you have a bullet puller, you can try pulling some of the 140gr. Rem bullets, then reseat them longer with the same powder charge. That might answer some questions.....


Good luck!

Here is what I do know about the guns. When I purchased them, they had the military 8mm barrels on them with the full length stock. My father in-law did all of the hand work for me. He ordered the barrels and had a very reputable gunsmith change the barrels out and set the head space. The new barrels don't have any sights on them. Slick barrels and they are 2in shorter than the origional 8mm. The fore stock was cut back and refinished. I do know that I can take a dollar bill and slide it between the barrel and stock all the way down.

They do still have the military triggers. For the test shooting. I used a lock down shooting rest, with the hydraulic trigger pull system. When sighting in my guns, I try to remove all human error.

I had purchased 5 of these guns from my gunsmith for $25 each. I have a wife and 2 sons that hunt. It can get real expensive real quick trying to buy guns. The total cost for each gun came to about $150 each with scope. My father-in-law has built many of these guns and his shoot well, very well. But he does handload. I'm pretty sure that if I do handload for the 7 x 57, I will see some improved accuracy.

I'm at work right now in Mexico, so getting my hands on the guns to give more info is kinda hard. I have the dies and components ordered so that I can handload some rounds and try them out. I've had to buy alot of new reloading equipment in the past month. I had given most of what I have to my father-in-law, because he lives for it. My father-in-law is in pretty bad health now and that is about the only thing that he can do now, and I just can't bring myself to ask for my equipment back. So I am slowly buying what I need to get back into it.

You still have not told us what size of groups you are getting.

Frank

Sorry about that. 6 - 8 at 100 yds. Not very good at all.

Every now and then we will hunt over a clear cut area with shots over 500 yds. There is no way that I would even think of taking a shot over 100 yds as the guns are now.

All 3 guns have the same barrels and scopes. The new barrels, I'm guessing are sport models, due to no sights at all. I am using Millet rings with Bushnell 3 - 9 x 40 scopes. I have noticed no deformed primers or expanded cases. I won't be home untill Jan 9, so I won't be able to check the OAL of each gun untill then.

All of the shooting has been with the Rem 140 grn. Core Lokt ammo. I do have some handloaded 140's, but do not have enough to try and group with the rifles.

[QUOTE=scottg]Sorry about that. 6 - 8 at 100 yds. Not very good at all.

Every now and then we will hunt over a clear cut area with shots over 500 yds. There is no way that I would even think of taking a shot over 100 yds as the guns are now. QUOTE]

OK so we know that you have a major problem. I am very suspect of the barrels since all are doing the same. You need to slug the bore to make sure you have a .284 barrel. For what you paid for them they can't be anything special. I assume the bullets are all over the place and not just stringing up and down. It is not likly you have 3 bad bedding jobs unless the action is not tight in the stock. I would check out the barrel first and then check the bedding to make sure the recoil lug is in direct contact with the stock.

Are you sure these are 98 actions. It has been a long time since you could buy a complete 98 Mauser for $25.

Frank

They are 98 actions and the barrels are marked 7 x 57.
I know that the gunsmith that I used has built many of these guns for my father-in-law. All that have been built shoot handloads and shoot well. I actually bought 5 of the guns, 1 is still origional. I have 3 of them and I gave my father-in-law 1 for doing the work for me. My father-in-law's gun is shooting great with handloads. I don't get to talk to him much, so I don't know exactly what he is shooting.
I do know that one of his techniques is to open the neck of the case slightly and insert the bullet that he wants to shoot. Then He will chamber the round, letting the action push the bullet back into the case. He takes the case out then mic's it and sets it back another .015. He then sets his seat die for that length. I don't know how right that is, but it seems to work.

I guess that my question was, is it common for a short 140 gr bullet to be inaccurate in one of these guns? I know that the actions are made for the longer 170 gr round nose bullets. I know that my Ruger 270 doesn't have alot to choose from as far as rounds go. I can go from 100 gr to 150 gr. But the overall length doesn't change that much. The 7mm mauser overall length can change 3/8" depending on bullets used.

Your cartridge's OAL should be dependent upon the acceptable magazine length that will function properly, if you intend these for hunting rifles.

If you intend to bust targets only and willing to have the rifle function as a single-shot, you can load the bullet out to where it just barely misses the lands.

A factory 140 grain loaded 7x57 cartridge should function from the magazine well and the accuracy should be better than 6 to 8 MOA. Naturally, handloads will improve things as you can tweak each individual rifle to it's personal ability. There will most probably be a difference between each of the firearms, even with identical actions, barrels and stocks.

Regardless of what's stamped on the barrels, the only way you're going to know for sure what you have is to slug the bores. Search the Archives here on the board for previous posts on how this is done.

I agree with the others - $25 for a complete M98K action is a dream come true. The barrels for the low price sounds like some that Numrich Arms have that are surplus military ones. Don't know of any commercial barrel maker that would sell them so cheaply.

Using Millett Angle-Loc rings COULD be part of the problem. These require careful alignment and proper tightening on mounts to assure best accuracy. Not using a ring alignment bar for eliminating horizontal and vertical offsets can put great strain on the scope tube body, warping the scope to the degree it affects accuracy.

Just a few things to consider, IMHO.

On my personal gun, I did have the get the rings reset, because of the tube being tweaked.
My father-in-law is big time into buying and selling old military rifles. How and where he can find these guns and parts, I don't know. I know that the guns came from an individual who had them for many years out in his barn. I'm not sure of the barrels. I gave him them money and he bought 4 barrels. This is how he makes his living. He buy old guns and makes them new. I do know that all of the k98 actions are not of the manufacturer. I beleive that 2 are German and 1 is Yugo, I think. I will check the barrels for the correct bore, that is not a problem.