Great to see the forum back up again; just got back home from my AT (ARNG "summer camp") at Fort Riley KS - sure is a hot place in July!

Bought a 4 5/8" Ruger NM Blackhawk in .41 Mag the week before I went to AT and was able to hit a gun show in Topeka last weekend - got 200 cases of W-W brass and 200 bullets to go with them (Hornady 210 XTP's).

Anybody got any 'tried and true" Pet loads for this cartridge? Need lead bullet loads too (will order those from Beartooth soon). I searched the Beartooth site and didn't come up with anything from the past.

Thanks,
Odessa

Odessa,
Elmer Keith's old standby load of 20.0 grs. 2400, over a large STANDARD primer, pushing a hard cast 210-215 gr. SWC has always shown good accuracy for me. I'd drop down to 19.0 grs. for jacketed bullets. You'll be in the 1400-1500 fps bracket. Heck of a load !
Jeff
This is a safe top pressure load. I've always had easy case extraction with it.

I am partial to 18grs of Accurate Arms #9 over Hornady's 210gr XTP with CCI LP primers. Also like 16 to 17 grs of AA #9 over a 230gr Keith bullet from Dry Creek Bullet Works again with CCI LP primers

No I don't have a 41 any more but someday I do plan on having another one.

There are 26 41 mag loads over on Load Swap. From 170 grain up to 280 grains. There might be some good ones on there if you go through them

Good luck and congrats on a new pistola....

I have just had a Blackhawk in .41 mag offered to me for sale at what I consider to be a reasonable price.
I'm wanting to get rid of a 45 ACP and this is an opportunity

BUT

I don't know squat about them and am real hesitant to jump without more information-

So

Can you .41 shooters give me more info?

thanks

Go over to the Accuratereloading.com bulletin board and look up posts by Crawfish and Still Crawfish. Lots of good information in the posts he responds to.

Thanks twillis,
I did go and look. Boy those boys over there certainly like to beat eachother up.
Crawfish is a character but I think I'll try to get the .41 based on what I have read

They sure do. I come here (and a couple of other sites) to learn and go there for the entertainment value. Crawfish is a good guy with alot of 41 experience. I number of years ago, he was limited to handgun shooting only and bought a 41 and that is about all he shoots now. This is one of his:
http://www.reedercustomguns.com/special_guns/images/green_machine1_small.jpg

Jim,

I'm a .41 fan from waay back. I've owned and handloaded for the following:

Ruger 4-5/8" Blackhawk
Ruger 5-1/2" Redhawk
S&W M-657 4"
S&W M-58 4"
Marlin 1894S

Sadly I no longer have any but they were terrific guns excepting the Redhawk. I just couldn't get good groups from that one no matter what I did. The others were better-than-average to excellent shooters. The Marlin was a really super carbine and I'm sorry I never took it deer or black bear hunting, but when I owned it I was on a 10-year hiatus. Not only that but its collector status has almost doubled what I paid for it!

Two bullets that worked well for me, except that darn Redhawk, were the Remington 200-grain JHP and Hornady 210-grain XTP-HP. The latter was a new bullet when I had my .41's and I had to try it in them all at the same time. Backed by book maximums of Win. 296, it proved to be a very accurate projectile.

Give the unwanted stepchild of the Magnum family a try. I think it's a winner no matter what the sales figures say. It gives a substantial boost in power over the .357 yet doesn't beat up the shooter or Smith & Wesson N-frame like the .44 Magnum.

Thanks Bill,
Good information. Are the Smiths as weak as theRuger and Freedom Arms fans seem to think?
I haven't been playing with handguns or the web long enough to find the good forum sites. I have found this one, Accuratereloading, Marlin and a couple of others that were of very little interest. Got some good ones?

Here are some sites/forums I like:

http://loadyourown.com/
http://www.reloadbench.com/
http://www.handloads.com/

That said, I like this one and handloads.com the best.

twillis

I went and looked at the above forums and still like this one the best.
I saw on another one you were looking for a .41 cal bullet. Leadhead has a Keith style at 215 grs that really looks good.

Leadhead is at www.proshootpro.com

Jim,

I believe that the N-frame S&W is a great .41 Magnum but a borderline .44 Magnum in terms of durability. My brothers and I have owned several .44 N-frames with 2-3/4" and 4" barrels and they really aren't strong enough for a steady diet of magnum loads in my opinion. They would agree. For example, I had one 4" M-629 that was purchased brand new go out of time within 1000 rounds of factory equivalent 180- and 240-grain handloads. The .41's on the other hand, plus another M-657 owned by my brother Jim, all stood up well to many rounds of fullpower 170 to 210-grain JHP's. As I mentioned in my first post, the .41 is much nicer to shooters and N-frames than the .44 Magnum.

As far as websites go I think you're at the best there is for good, solid information without a bunch of rude egotists running and ruining the show. I can honestly say that egos get checked at the door here. If I had children I wouldn't hesitate to let them read any post on this board. Considering the language and general nastiness at many boards, that's something I wouldn't do elsewhere.

Hi Jim,

Actually, several casters cast that bullet. It is a SWC with a bevel base. I have used Oregon Bullets Laser-Cast version and they do shoot very well over 18 grs of AA #9. It does deviate from in true Keith bullets in at least three areas.
1. The bevel base
2. The front driving band is more narrow than the other two.
3. The nose is shaped different and carries less weight forward.

Dry Creek Bullet Works' 230 is a true Keith type. It has shot better than any bullet I have used to date in my gun assuming thay are moving pretty well. Take a look at this review I did:
http://www.handloads.com/articles/dc41-230k.htm

Terry

Not to dispute twillis' results or his word in any way, but I've never found bevel base designs to shoot as well as plain base or gas check bullets. Just proves that each gun is a rule unto its own.

Bill,

I was under the same understanding and was pleasantly surprised. It is a good thing they do well as there is not much else available in lower end cast bullets. The casters all seem to cast the same mold for the 41.

God Bless

Terry

The Dry Creek bullets are top-knotch for Keith designs. Not to take anything away from Marshall, but Lynn is a heck of a nice guy and I have shot several of his bullets. Sizing options are more limited, though.

I've got a late 1980's Dan Wesson 41 6" VH that I've always enjoyed shooting, especially with less than full power loads. Finding this site and the hard cast bullet crowd has whet my appetite for loading some heavy bullet hard cast loads for hunting. Any experience with the older DW revolvers and the heavy loads? I don't want to hurt this thing (or myself). Any comparison to the blackhawk / redhawk setup? Sorry to deviate from the thread, but sounds like a good bunch to ask.

Bill

Bill,

I'm sorry to say I can't make any dan Wesson-specific suggestions. I've only handled a couple in gun stores and never fired a round through the brand. Possibly someone else?

I do not have any direct experience with Dan Wesson. However, they were the darling of ithe silhouette crowd in those days and they tended to push the load envelope a bit in that game. Never heard of any KBs with Dan Wesson

OK, I'll bite. What's a KB?

Bill,
A "KB" is a kaboom or a blown-up gun due to using an overload. Easiest way to do it is use Ruger Blackhawk or Thompson Center only loads in an old Colt SAA. Another favorite way is to double charge a case with a fast (such as Bullseye) powder.
Odessa
Ps - As the .41 Mag was designed new in 1964, and all guns built for it are from modern steel, you will be okay if you stay within the published loading data (manuals) from the powder and bullet companies (assuming your revolver is in good condition.)

I just concluded the trade on the .41.
It's a 4 5/8 barrel Blackhawk. Looks and feels GOOD.
I messed with the measurements a little and I'm afraid the cylinder may be too tight. A .410 bullet is really snug. I guess I get to try Marshalls cylinder opening routine.
I'm going to shoot it first though. It's raining now but I'll be on the range with it in about 3 hours. Got 4 loads to try- 9grs Unique, 15.5grs 2400, 14 grs A#7 and 16.5 grs A#9. All under a Bull-X 210 TC
None are max but I'm not looking for much past 1300 on the top end.
I'm going to have fun!!

I shot the BH last night. The single action handle leaves something to be desired. Of the loads I listed above the A#7 shot the best. I didn't use paper targets because it was raining but I laid 11 out of 12 on an 8 inch slab of steel offhand at 28 yds. I'm beginning to think that it is a super powder for all my shooting. I think I'll use it for everything that doesn't call for max velocity and then go to W296.

Originally posted by Old Jim
I shot the BH last night. The single action handle leaves something to be desired. Of the loads I listed above the A#7 shot the best. I didn't use paper targets because it was raining but I laid 11 out of 12 on an 8 inch slab of steel offhand at 28 yds. I'm beginning to think that it is a super powder for all my shooting. I think I'll use it for everything that doesn't call for max velocity and then go to W296.


Hi...I have a .41 Mag Blackhawk that seemed a little rude with the factory grips. I replaced them with a Hogue finger-groove set. Seems to help with felt recoil as well as control with the warmer loads. For what it is worth, my Blackhawk has a 7 1/2-inch barrel and really likes hard cast 215 grain lead (bevel base) and 17 grs. of 2400 w/mag primers. It also shots well with the Hornady 210 gr HP-XTP with 19.2 grs. of 2400 w/mag primers at around 1300fps. Best group so far with Hornady 210 gr HP-XTP's was with 21.7 grs of W296 at about 1350fps.

I also put a set of Hogues on the .41 Turned it into a honey. There's an interesting article in the 2002 Gun Digest about the .41 Special (there never was one). The author suggested some "tabby cat" loads for the .41 Mag. I tried 6 grs of Unique under a 240 D&J swc. for about 800 to 850 fps. What I was looking for was a load with about the same energy as a .45 ACP.
This load is super accurate and incredibly mild to shoot. From what I have learned from this forum, you don't need the dragon slayer loads to be effective on deer sized critters. That size animals and paper are all I ever intend to shoot with my hand guns. I feed both the .44 and the .41 enough powder to get the 220s to 250s up to about 1350 to 1400. I try to run the 300s in the .44 to about 1250 for hogs.

>"tabby cat" loads for the .41 Mag. I tried 6 grs of Unique under a 240 D&J swc. for about 800 to 850 fps. <


I also have a "light" load that I shoot in my .41s. I shoot hard cast 215gr LSWC over 8.2 grs of Unique. This supposedly chugs along at around 1000fps. It is accurate in both my Blackhawk and a S&W Model 57 with a 5" barrel. I use it for a practice load and for hiking in my immediate area (south-central Penna). When I hunt or hike in the mountains of northern Penna, I load the heavier loads. Bears and coyotes are fairly numerous in that area,so...


Speaking of .44s, I usually shoot either cast LSWC or HP-XTPs in the 240gr range. I have bought some 300gr HP-XTPs for my .44s. Can you suggest an accurate load that doesn't exceed recommended maximums? I have a Dan Wesson .44 Magnum w/8-inch barrel and a S&W Model 29 w/8-3/8-inch barrel. Both are very accurate with 240gr loads.

357supermag
I like 18grs of W296 under a 300gr Bull-x. Shoots good and doesn't beat me up.
I've tried, in the last 7 months, Unique, 2400, H4227, A#7, A#9 and W296. I destroyed the H4227 because I didn't like anything about it. It is the roughest shooting power, in my guns, of the ones I have tried. Unique is stable, easy to shoot and dirty. A#7 is my favorite right now, folled by W296, A#9 and 2400 last.
I don't like the "dragonslayer" loads. I try to load to hit reasonable performance with reasonable recoil.

>I like 18grs of W296 under a 300gr Bull-x.<

Thanks for the load data,I'll cross-reference it and maybe give it a try.

>I've tried, in the last 7 months, Unique, 2400, H4227, A#7, A#9 and W296.<

I've gone through all of those,plus H110 and Blue Dot, trying to find acceptable loads that my my revolvers like. All have proved useful,depending on the caliber or power level I was looking for. I agree that Unique can be dirty,but it is "unique" in its' ability to provide accurate,mid-level loads for every caliber from the .357 to the .44Mag. I use it in all of them for plinking and target loads. 8grs under a 250-255gr lead bullet is my favorite .45 Colt load.I shoot it in both my Vaqueros,a Blackhawk and a S&W revolver. It doesn't shoot very well in my Webley that was converted by someone to .45 Colt. I haven't had the barrel checked but I suspect the bore is considerably larger than .452". Only the Blackhawk ever gets a different load,a heavy one for when it goes hunting or
hiking in bear country. Sort of started to ramble there...sorry about that.

375supermag,
Don't be surprised if you find Webley barrel bore to be as low as .449. The one that I slugged measured .448-.449" (I still have the bullet). Cylinder bore was .451-.452. Size your bullet for snag fit in the cylinder.

Originally posted by Onty
375supermag,
Don't be surprised if you find Webley barrel bore to be as low as .449. The one that I slugged measured .448-.449" (I still have the bullet). Cylinder bore was .451-.452. Size your bullet for snag fit in the cylinder.


Hi...thanks for the response.
I am surprised to learn of the tight bore on your Webley.
I haven't slugged mine,but it tends to keyhole hard cast lead bullets at 25 yards.It does not keyhole soft cast lead or factory-loaded lead bullets.All groups at 25 yds should more properly be referred to as patterns. The frame is marked "455/476" which leads me to think it might be that the original chambering could have been .476 Webley.
For what its' worth,when the Webley goes to the range,everybody who sees the big nickel-plated frame and black birds' head grip wants to shoot it. I don't know if it is the top-break or the nickel plate that gets them excited,but everybody wants to shoot it.

Good Day Gentlemen,

This is my first post on this board. I've been shooting and loading for the 41 for over 20 years. My Uncle taught me to reload using the 41. I've owned a number of them of the years mainly S&W N frames, 57s (4 & 6") several 58s, 657 (6 & 6.5"), T/C Contender 14" and a Marlin 1894s. The only game I've shot with it was a Dall ram out of the 657CH using factory Winchester 210 JHP. I'm looking forward to taking my yougeest son (9) deer hunting in Kentucky this deer season when I'm on leave from Germany. Hopefully we will be successfully with the Marlin. My oldest boy just started Basic Training for Infantry this week. Looking forward to beening on this site.

George

Loved Stuttgart,

Was assigned as motor officer for 7th Corps Headquarters for about 3 hours in 1962. In the welcome interview, the commanding General suggested I move into the BOQ. I told him I was married and my family was in quarters in Bamberg. He turned to the Exec and said "get me a bachelor". End of assignment. Spent the rest of the time over there (3.5 years) with an artillery battalion in Bamberg. Still miss the beer.
Is hunting still available for GIs in Germany?
Some of my friends went on some awesome hog hunts in the early 60s.
I find since I got the .41, it's become the one to go along on my hikes. Just seems friendly I guess.

Welcome to the forum Combat, nice folks here and alot of knowledge is represented here. I think you will enjoy it, I know I do.

Thanks Twillis and Old Jim,
This is my thrid 3 year assignment to Germany. First as a kid with my parents (USAF). then Bad Tolz and now Stuttgart. Love the Hefe Weiss Beer. Yes, GIs can still hunt over here but it takes time to pass the German hunting requirements and its more restrictive to own firearms over here now.

De Oppresso Liber

In one of my previous posts I mentioned that I thought the cylinder was too tight on my newly acquired .41 Blackhawk. I bought some .411 bullets and decided to do the Marshall routine of pushing them through the cylinder to see if they fit. All six stuck and had to be driven out backwards. I miked the cylinder and the chambers measured from .408 to .409.
After much fear and trembling, I took an old xacto knife handle, split it with a hack saw, bummed some 320 emery paper from a plumber friend and set to work. I assumed that this "opening" would take hours at least to accomplish. After about 20 minutes I lost my nerve and quit with one .410 and the rest about 409 to 495. I re-read Marshall book and started again. At the end of another 15 minute session I have now all six that mike .411. If the lube is wiped down on the bullets, they all are finger pressure push throughs.
Very scary to do. ( OK I'm cheap and was afraid I was going to have to buy a new cylinder)
If anyone trys this, GO SLOW, it does not take near as much effort as it would seem.
Anyhow, Fred, the .41 now shoots much nicer groups than he did before. It may be just my imagination but he also seem to shoot with less felt recoil.
All in all I'm rather pleased with my first "gunsmithing" effort.

Old Jim -

I have a .41 Mag in a steel, ported Taurus Tracker with 4 inch bbl, and just sold my Model 415 titanium snubbie with ported 2.5 inch bbl. I have also loaded for a friend wo has your blackhawk.

A lot of writers simplify the 41 by stating that it is mid-way between the 357 and 44 Mags, but there is more to the story than that.

The .41 Mag to me has a "sectional density" niche, and in that niche is wedded to lead bullets due to the lack of jacketed bullets in the caliber. For example, it duplicates the velicities of the 44 Mag with 300 gr lead bullets - 1200+ fps from a 6 inch bbl. As a mater of fact, it duplicates the 44 Mag for all bullet weights over 210 grs from a 4 inch bbl.

So, in the "handy" sized wheel gun category, it has less recoil, equal energy and better penetration than the 44 Mag. Hence my Tracker as a hiking and exploring companion. For hunting deer sized game, there is no practical difference between the 44 and 41 Mags with handloads, except that the 41 kicks less and shoots a bit flatter.

Like the 44 Mag, the 41 loves H110 and W296 when power is the issue, as long as barrel lengths get up to 7 inches and longer. From this length out, Hodgdon's new Lil'gun powder takes over in the 41, and is well worth some load work up with bullets over 220 grs in the blackhawk. This powder has a mystifying ability to generate higher velocities than 110 or 296 in some calibers at reduced pressures with heavy bullets.

There is an untapped market for JHP bullets lighter than 170 grs in the 41 Mag, but it has not happened yet. With the advent of the .40 S&W and 10MM autos for defense work, its pretty obvious that a 150 grain HP in .41 would be handy. This would have the same SD as your 45 ACP at 230 grs and launch at 1600 fps from a 4 inch bbl. I have done this by drill pressing 30 grs out of the sierra 170 41s and applying Blue Dot.

We could move to the faster Universal Clays and throttle back to 1300 fps and have a 10MM auto in a wheel gun with 30% less recoil. Sounds like what the FBI wanted in the first place...

Originally posted by loader
Old Jim -

I have a .41 Mag in a steel, ported Taurus Tracker with 4 inch bbl, and just sold my Model 415 titanium snubbie with ported 2.5 inch bbl. I have also loaded for a friend wo has your blackhawk.

A lot of writers simplify the 41 by stating that it is mid-way between the 357 and 44 Mags, but there is more to the story than that.

The .41 Mag to me has a "sectional density" niche, and in that niche is wedded to lead bullets due to the lack of jacketed bullets in the caliber. For example, it duplicates the velicities of the 44 Mag with 300 gr lead bullets - 1200+ fps from a 6 inch bbl. As a mater of fact, it duplicates the 44 Mag for all bullet weights over 210 grs from a 4 inch bbl.

So, in the "handy" sized wheel gun category, it has less recoil, equal energy and better penetration than the 44 Mag. Hence my Tracker as a hiking and exploring companion. For hunting deer sized game, there is no practical difference between the 44 and 41 Mags with handloads, except that the 41 kicks less and shoots a bit flatter.

Like the 44 Mag, the 41 loves H110 and W296 when power is the issue, as long as barrel lengths get up to 7 inches and longer. From this length out, Hodgdon's new Lil'gun powder takes over in the 41, and is well worth some load work up with bullets over 220 grs in the blackhawk. This powder has a mystifying ability to generate higher velocities than 110 or 296 in some calibers at reduced pressures with heavy bullets.

There is an untapped market for JHP bullets lighter than 170 grs in the 41 Mag, but it has not happened yet. With the advent of the .40 S&W and 10MM autos for defense work, its pretty obvious that a 150 grain HP in .41 would be handy. This would have the same SD as your 45 ACP at 230 grs and launch at 1600 fps from a 4 inch bbl. I have done this by drill pressing 30 grs out of the sierra 170 41s and applying Blue Dot.

We could move to the faster Universal Clays and throttle back to 1300 fps and have a 10MM auto in a wheel gun with 30% less recoil. Sounds like what the FBI wanted in the first place...


Interesting post...the idea of light bullets in the .41 magnum never occurred to me. I guess the .357 magnum fills the need for lighter bullets at higher velocities for me. Still,a 150gr JHP at .41 caliber has interesting possibilities.
I think the main advantage the .41 magnum has over the .44 magnum is that the .41 shoots a .410 (or.411 in lead)while the .44 shoots a .429 bullet. You still get a wide meplat on the .410 lead semi-wadcutter and the trajectory is flatter,making it easier to hit with. All with less recoil.
Penetration with a hard cast LSWC is never aproblem,either.
The .41 gives the best of both worlds,lower recoil (like the .357) and power (like the .44).

Actually the S&W 610 gives you the option of shooting 10mm or .40 S&W in a wheel gun. I have never shot one but I would like to get one at some point.

I am fast becoming a .41 fan.
I have worked up to 14.5 grs of A#7 behind a 215 gr .300 meplat leadhead.
The books say this is a Max load in the vicinity of 1450 fps.
Primer (CCI 300) has nice round corners and no sign of firing pin cratering.
No leading visible, low noise and less recoil than expected.
Point of impact within a couple of inches of my 7.5 grain Unique load.
I have gone to the Hogue rubber grips for comforts sake.
Seems to me to incorporate all the good things and very few of the bad. I bet that it would really be a honey in a 7.5" RedHawk.

Friends of the 41 Mag -

Anyone know what is involved in "bumping up" the Speer 155 gr .40 Gold Dot to .410? I will pay double the cost of the 155 Gold Dots so bumped for 100 of them @ .410, and share the load results on this site. SD on these will match the .357 with 125 gr bullets, THE standard for high vel moderate recoil stoppers and the reason for the 357 SIG.

We only need 1350 fps from a 4 inch bbl to generate 628 ft lbs of energy and go 20% over Major. On paper, this could even be safely achieved from a 2 inch bbl.

This would take the .41 Mag into the defense world without affecting the excellent hunting potential, i.e., defend better than the .357 and hunt like the .44 Mag.

Any interest?