I've have just ventured off into the world of reloading so please be patient with me. I purchased the Lee Deluxe Die set for .308 to go with the Challenger press. You know the ones that state they require no lube. So a couple of days ago I started prepping some cases. I necked sized all of them since they were once fired in my rifle but I figured I should go ahead and try out the FL sizer just so I know exactly how to use it in the future. So I screwed it in following the directions to the letter and did not use lube because it stated lube was not needed. Well from the title of this you can tell what happened.

I pulled the lever down running the case into the die. It seemed a little tight to me but since this was my first case I had nothing to compare it to. I ran the case all the way into the die and then started the up-stoke. When I did this it pulled the decapper/expander pin out of the decapper clamp on the top of the die. I just figured the clamp was not tight enough to begin with so I loosened it ran the decapper pin back up through it and tightened it down good. I then tried it again but the whole case stuck inside the die and pulled the rim off. I loosed the decapper clamp and tried to punch it out per the directions with a hammer and punch. I banged the heck out of it but I don't think it even budged. This thing is REALLY, REALLY stuck. Do I just need a bigger hammer or what? Any advice from you veteran loaders would be appreciated.

I assume even though they tell you no lube is required for these it is still a good practice to use some. I don't want to go through this each time I try to FL size cases. Also I have read where other guys just "bump the shoulders" back some when needed. How far do you you run the case in when you do this? Are you running the expander completely through case neck or just part way? Sorry for all the questions and the long post. Any advice on removing this case would be great.

Let's get past the stuck case first. Should be able to get that decapper assembly lined up square and plumb with the die mounted in the press. Need to give it a big,controled thud. A two pound hammer should will allow the controled blow I am thinking of. There are stuck case removal tools availible also. The flashhole is drilled and tapped. Then a cap and screw are used to pull the case from the die.

Bottle necked case all require lubrication for sizing. Carbide dies for straight walled cases do not.

For neck sizing, all that needs sizing is that part of the neck to the depth of seated bullet. Is sometimes only half of the neck depending on the throat and magizine of individual rifles. You still need a little lube for this as well.

Cheezywan

I'm pretty sure you always need to lube to full length size. Now if you use the collet die and neck size only you don't need to lube. you should full lenght size your brass the first time you use them in the gun they are to be fired in. Then after that you can neck size them with the collet die for that rifle. Good luck with your new hobby of reloading. It's alot of fun. As for the stuck case I can't help ya there. DO you know anyone who is a veteran reloader around you? If you do I'm sure they would be happy to help you get it out.

Bottle necked case all require lubrication for sizing. Carbide dies for straight walled cases do not.
Cheezywan

Cheezywan is absolutely right about this regardless of what Richard Lee told you. Would be inclined to send this back to Richard and have him remove the stuck case. This would also show you the committment of Lee Customer Service.

If you MUST tackle this problem yourself, RCBS makes a stuck case remover for about $20 that works exactly as Cheezywan said. It requires that the casehead be intact. I have this tool and have used it once. Use a good penetrating oil on the stuck case and let it sit for at least 24 hour before proceeding. The experience taught me to stop bearing down on the press handle when I meet heavy resistance with a bottleneck case. Forcing the case further into the die will ony result in untold grief.

In the future, lube all bottleneck cases. When you meet heavy resistance in the sizer die, STOP, back the case out and relube the area where the sizing action stopped. You should not have to bear down HARD to resize a case. Have sized many .308 Winchester cases this way and that includes military surplus shot out of gas operated weapons.

You will get through this as all of us have.

Now if you use the collet die and neck size only you don't need to lube. you should full lenght size your brass the first time you use them in the gun they are to be fired in. Then after that you can neck size them with the collet die for that rifle.

Thanks for the replies. I am using the collet die on everything right now. I have about 150 once fired cases that were orignally shot through my rifle. I really like the collet neck sizing die it's really simple to use even for a reloading rookie like me. I just wanted to do one FL size to get the feel of it and learn how to use all the equipment. Now I'm learning "stuck case removal".LOL

I read where brass will shrink more than steel under cold conditions and sometimes placing the die in a freezer for a few hours will help. I think I will give this a try and next time I am using a bigger hammer, literally. I was a little afraid to really smack it being new to this an all.

What I don't really get is why Lee Inc. states clearly on the instructions that you don't need lube for these dies when you obviously do. Oh well sometimes we learn these things the hard way. Thanks again guys. I am learning a ton of things just reading various threads on this site. This place is great.

You need lube for full-length dies, but not for the collet dies. If the set contained both, I can see how the instructions might have been confusing to a beginner.

Anyway - put 'er in the freezer, and give it a good solid whack :D

You need lube for full-length dies, but not for the collet dies. If the set contained both, I can see how the instructions might have been confusing to a beginner.

Anyway - put 'er in the freezer, and give it a good solid whack :D

That is where I got messed up. I read on there "no lube needed". I did not realize they were referring only to the neck sizing collet die. I thought they were referring to both dies since they both came in the same set. I realize now that the only ones which are lubeless are carbide dies for straight wall cases. Oh well, I learned my first reloading lesson the hard way but nothing and no one got hurt so no big deal. I'll get that little bugger out of that die dust myself off and get back up on the saddle.

So far all I have done is polish, neck size, and prime about 40 cases but I can see I am already getting addicted to this. My wife may rue the day she purchased me a reloading kit for Christmas. :D

If the cold treatment doesn't work, you can make your own stuck case extractor. You need a 1/4" tap, drill and bolt to match the tap. Drill and tap the primer pocket. Put a 5/8" nut over the case head, then put a steel strap with a 1/4 hole for the bolt over the nut. Thread the bolt into the case and start cranking. If you don't have a steel strap handy, a stack of washers, tapering from large enough to bridge the 5/8" nut to small enough to hold the 1/4" bolt will work.

Bye
Jack

…you can make your own stuck case extractor…
One picture would be worth a thousand words here. Anybody have pictures of how they've done a stuck-case removal?

This comes up several times a year - might be worth posting pictures as a "sticky", or other good reference page.

Range Junkie, I can see how you'd get confused and I believe their claim of no case lube needed applies to just the neck sizing die. Even at the Lee website when you look at the Deluxe die set, it says no lube needed until you look closer and see the picture is of the neck die and they're describing it. The only ones I've never used lube is my handgun brass. Good luck getting that out. And you're right, your wife will rue the day....all you'll do is get more involved, shoot more and buy more stuff.

Range, I grinned a bit reading your mistake. Laffing at me, not at you but with you, cause most of us, if not all, need a stuck case remover. That's why they sell so many of them! The good part is that you are still on the steep part of the learning curve and already you've learned a good lesson; if it don't go in easy, check to see why not!

The Lee collet neck sizer is a great design, I love that it needs no lube. But lube ALL of your bottle neck cases before FL sizing, especially the bottom half where the brass is thickest. And lube straight cases too if the size die isn't carbide.

Carbide dies benefit from a bit of lube every 20 rounds or so just to keep surface galling from bare metal friction under control. Galling will eventually cause scratches on your carbide sized cases and the accumulated globs of brass will have to be polished off the carbide ring before it stops.

Anyway, the fix for a stuck case is a pain to deal with but easy to do. The stuck case removers work well.

Yep!

We've all been there, done that, and got the "T" shirt to prove it! :D

OK, here's my pitiful attempt at a drawing.
The parts are:
1/ 1/4" bolt
2/ 1/4" flat stock drilled for the bolt
3/ 5/8" nut.
4/ Stuck case d&t for bolt
5/ Die body

Bye
Jack

OK, here's my pitiful attempt at a drawing…
Nicely done there, Jack!

As for drill size, the chart that came with my tap set shows two sizes depending on whether you have a ¼-20 (coarse) or a ¼-28 (fine) threaded bolt.

For a ¼-20 (coarse) bolt, drill the primer hole with a #7 drill which is .201", or use a 13/64" drill.

For a ¼-28 (fine) bolt, drill the primer hole with a #3 drill, which is .213", pr use a 7/32" drill.

Thanks for posting the drill sizes. It saves me from looking them up.

A 5/8-11 NC (course thread) nut is just big enough for an H&H Magnum case. I checked it with one randomly selected .300 H&H case out of the cartridge collection and one randomly selected nut out of the bolt bin. Any statistician will tell you what a single data point is worth. A 5/8-18 NF (fine thread) is big enough for a WSM case. Again, a single data point.

Bye
Jack

I've have just ventured off into the world of reloading so please be patient with me. I purchased the Lee Deluxe Die set for .308 to go with the Challenger press. You know the ones that state they require no lube. So a couple of days ago I started prepping some cases. I necked sized all of them since they were once fired in my rifle but I figured I should go ahead and try out the FL sizer just so I know exactly how to use it in the future. So I screwed it in following the directions to the letter and did not use lube because it stated lube was not needed. Well from the title of this you can tell what happened.

I pulled the lever down running the case into the die. It seemed a little tight to me but since this was my first case I had nothing to compare it to. I ran the case all the way into the die and then started the up-stoke. When I did this it pulled the decapper/expander pin out of the decapper clamp on the top of the die. I just figured the clamp was not tight enough to begin with so I loosened it ran the decapper pin back up through it and tightened it down good. I then tried it again but the whole case stuck inside the die and pulled the rim off. I loosed the decapper clamp and tried to punch it out per the directions with a hammer and punch. I banged the heck out of it but I don't think it even budged. This thing is REALLY, REALLY stuck. Do I just need a bigger hammer or what? Any advice from you veteran loaders would be appreciated.

I assume even though they tell you no lube is required for these it is still a good practice to use some. I don't want to go through this each time I try to FL size cases. Also I have read where other guys just "bump the shoulders" back some when needed. How far do you you run the case in when you do this? Are you running the expander completely through case neck or just part way? Sorry for all the questions and the long post. Any advice on removing this case would be great.

Range Junkie
I'm a certified "veteren" reloader who saved on the lube with my RCBS tool/die combo and was presented with the same problem as you did.
I know nothing about the Lee tools/dies that you have.But if they are similar to other s like RCBS,
You don't need the RCBS tool.drill out the case head and insert the corrisponding tap.Ths gives you something solid to hammer out.A little Kroil oil can't hurt.
Frank

The expanders on Lee dies are typically pretty stout. Since they are held in with a collet at the top, you just back the nut off enough to let the expander slide up and down. Center the decapping pin in the flash hole, and give it a good whack.

If the decapping pin punches through, there might still be enough meat on the case head to try the tap/bolt.

Either of these two methods rely on the integrity of the brass case overcoming friction so that it can be removed from the die.... once you tear the head completely off, it's a more difficult problem to solve. Don't ask me how I know that.... :rolleyes:

BTW, I made a mistake on the drawing. :rolleyes: Some of you may have noticed it, but were too polite to comment. A tip of the hat to the first one who posts the correct answer.

Bye
Jack

BTW, I made a mistake on the drawing. :rolleyes: Some of you may have noticed it, but were too polite to comment. A tip of the hat to the first one who posts the correct answer.

Bye
Jack
The only thing I see wrong with the drawing is that the threads on the capscrew and die are LEFT handed?

I'm no stanger to the "stuck case remover" myself!, I use the Horaday "one shot" case lube, and some of the coments that there isn't enough lube at the base of the case makes sens, I spray them down in the reloading block.

Here's a picture of the RCBS tool, less the drill bit, I don't recall if it comes with the kit, and I use the 5/16" nut to space the capscrew farther away from the decaping pin.

Yup, left hand threads. :rolleyes:

Bye
Jack

Anyway - put 'er in the freezer, and give it a good solid whack :D

It will be helpful if you "temperature cycle" it a few times. Put it in the freezer for a few hours then put it in the preheated oven at moderate heat (200 degrees F), then back in the freezer, then back in the oven. This expanding/contracting action will help loosen it. It's worked for me in the past such that I could remove the stuck case with my hand. With the LEE die, make sure you remove the lock nut with the rubber O-ring before popping it into the oven. Boiling water will work in place of the oven, the temperature shock helps loosen the stuck surfaces when the interfacing materials have different coeficients of thermal expansion.

Oh yeah....try some Imperial Sizing Die Wax. IMO It's the best case lube on the market. A little bit goes a long way and its inexpensive and easy to use.

BTW, I made a mistake on the drawing. :rolleyes: Some of you may have noticed it, but were too polite to comment. A tip of the hat to the first one who posts the correct answer.

Bye
Jack

I am not all that polite Jack! I just figured that you had used a left handed tap :D .

It is a very nice drawing because it shows how to do it with materials someone may have "in house".

Remembering my first "stuck case" , I think a "soak" in some kind of oil would have been a good idea! I still use that die and it works fine. 30-30 Winchester. I bought a stuck case remover kit after that. No need to use it to this date.

I sent all of my RCBS dies back to the factory last winter for re-furb/ evaluation. They sent back the same die. I can tell by the date stamp. Still works good.


Cheezywan

Yup, left hand threads. :rolleyes:

Bye
Jack

Dang.... I was about to head out to the garage, and make a left handed tap!!!

:p

A short ½" pipe nipple can also be used to replace the nut if you don't have one. Being ½" ID, it will work for the 30-06 size case head, but would be too small for a belted or WSM diameter case.

In lieu of the 5/8" nut, simply use a socket that slips over a cartridge case, but not over the die body.

And after you've tried this left-handed approach, go out and buy a proper case removal set from RCBS. EVERY reloader should have one, because the one time you're hurrying to put together a box of reloads for tomorrow morning's deer opener is the time you'll stick a case.

You'll need a washer between the socket and the bolt, and be sure the socket has enough depth for the case to come free. A 1/2" pipe nipple is a better tool with more clearance. Actually this isn't high tech high precision tooling, just use what ever is around the shop that works. I just can't see buying the RCBS unit when all the necessary bits are already in the shop.

If you do buy one, do it now, especially if delivery time is a week or more. One thing we learned up here is that if the shipper insists on UPS, cancel the order.

Bye
Jack

. . . go out and buy a proper case removal set from RCBS. EVERY reloader should have one, because the one time you're hurrying to put together a box of reloads for tomorrow morning's deer opener is the time you'll stick a case.

Totally agree even if the stuck case removal tool is NOT from RCBS. Granted we can all scratch up the parts to build a homemade stuck case remover, but the parts tend to disperse after useage. For $20 or so, would prefer a DEDICATED tool that is right there when needed. My RCBS stuck case removal kit resides with all my spare cartridge cases where it is immediately on hand AND the kit's components will fit ALL calibers.

In addition, the freeze/heat and/or hammering the expander shank method may work however neither one gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. One is time consuming and may lead to causing rust in the die whereas the other may result in a bent expander shank. Bear in mind that some of us senior reloaders have limited tolerance and periods of concentration. Just my dos centavos on the subject.

I have the RCBS stuck case tool but the last couple of times I have used the hammer method. It worked well with a Lee die, but there is a chance of damage to the expander. Interestingly, I have only had stuck cases with the spray lubes, specifically the One Shot, never with the roll on lubes, and always only when I am in a hurry to get some cases ready (like for the match tomorrow).

I had the same thing happen to me with 30-30 cases, but with lube. First one I used a screwdriver to pry the case off, the second I reconnected the pin, sprayed some lube inside and pulled the lever down and the case came out. I now use plenty of Lee lube on all my dies even the carbide dies!

Range Junkie,
Have you got that case out yet? It occurs to me that "if I were a stuck case", confronted with all of these folks and thier suggestions. I think "I would put my hands on top of my head, turn around, and face the wall.
If someone yelled "YOU! ON THE FLOOR"! I would likely "grease my shorts", and fall out of the die :eek: !

Let this thread be a warning to stuck cases everywhere. YOU WILL LOSE!

Cheezywan

Nope it's still in there. I used a 3/16" punch after chilling it in the deep freeze for about 3 hours. I was having to hit it so hard I was afraid I was going to ruin my reloading bench. So I took it out to my garage and clamped the nut into my vise as not to ruin the threads. I beat on that decapper pin until I was blue in the face and didn't even budge that case. I did quite a bit of damage to the decapper pin and the nut is toast from being clamped in the vise but that case is still in the exact same place as before. I sincerely think this one is a lost cause. I honestly think it will be easier just to buy a new one. :(

Time to squirt in some penetrating oil AFTER you get the stuck case kit from RCBS. Let it soak overnight and then ease the case out.

Does sound like a new expander and rod are in order.

Send it back to Lee explaning you followed instructions and cannot remove the case. Let them pull it or send you a new die. They must see many stuck case's thru time. Good Luck TF

Send it back to Lee explaning you followed instructions and cannot remove the case. Let them pull it or send you a new die. They must see many stuck case's thru time. Good Luck TF
Ditto, I'll bet they take care of it for you.

Time to squirt in some penetrating oil AFTER you get the stuck case kit from RCBS. Let it soak overnight and then ease the case out.

Does sound like a new expander and rod are in order.

This is exactly what I cautioned about in my last post. Freezing/heating the die and hammering on the expander rod does not leave me with a warm, fuzzy feeling.

Send it back to Lee and tell them you followed their instructions explicitly and this was the outcome. Their customer service should take care of you as I'm sure they value your business.

Nope it's still in there. I used a 3/16" punch after chilling it in the deep freeze for about 3 hours. I was having to hit it so hard I was afraid I was going to ruin my reloading bench. So I took it out to my garage and clamped the nut into my vise as not to ruin the threads. I beat on that decapper pin until I was blue in the face and didn't even budge that case. I did quite a bit of damage to the decapper pin and the nut is toast from being clamped in the vise but that case is still in the exact same place as before. I sincerely think this one is a lost cause. I honestly think it will be easier just to buy a new one. :(

Sorry to hear thatRange Junkie. If your decapper assembly is up to the task? I want to try again. I don't like to quit. Let's try a combination of the suggestions that have been posted.

#1 Take off the parts of this die that you can.
#2 Let's get this thing "hot". 225-250 degrees F.
#3 (I've never done this before. Two ways come to mind.)
#3A Take out of the oven and imedently submerge in a penetrating oil. (I figure the different contraction rates will allow the oil to get where it needs to be?)
#3B Take out of the oven and spray penitrating oil (using a straw) to the "inside" of the die from the top of the die. This will cool and contract the stuck case faster than the die and will allow the lube to get between the two metals.
#4 I hope there is enough left of your decapper ***'y to tap that thing out of there.
#5 Put removed case on bench to remind you lube your cases.
#6 Order parts and celebrate.

Let the good folks here at the Beartooth Forum pick this one apart before you commit. I have not had to go this far before.

Cheezywan

I wouldn't get it any hotter than 240 degrees.

Here's a trick we use at work to get the relief valve inserts out of some of hydraulic valves I work on. Heat 'er up to about 240 degrees then dump it in a can of #2 diesel fuel. #2 diesel has more parrafin in it to act as a lubricant, so don't try #1, stove oil or kerosene. A 3 lb. coffee can is about the right size for a die, just make sure it's not plastic. Best to do this outside 'cause it tends to smoke alot. Leave it in there 'til it's cold, then try to pound it out. The hot to cold generally shrinks the thinner piece (stuck brass) quicker and allows the diesel fuel to penetrate between the 2 pieces. Just don't tell Caterpillar about this, they might frown on it :D


Any hotter that 240 will take the temper out of the die and might case harden it instead.

RJ

Uh.... you did loosen the collet holding the decapping pin, right?

If you hit it hard enough to bend the solid decapping pin, it's probably a lost cause no matter who is working on it.

One point with the Lee rifle dies is the need to lubricate the inside of the necks. In my experience, with multiple calibres in Lee dies, if I failed to lube the inside of the neck, I would pull the decapper pin off the collet.
Normally, a nylon bristle brush with a light wipe of the Lee lube is enough for about 20 cases. Just a quick, extra step.
Hope you get you die back soon.

Okay it seems this has become a group effort. Since I'm always up for a good challenge I'll give it another shot. Just to clear things up. I did try spraying oil around the case and letting it set but I did not soak it. I will try the heating and soaking then hammering again. I did not bend the decapper pin I just boogered up the end of it a litte where the punch was impacting it. Yes I did loosen the clamp nut at the top before trying to punch it out.

I'll give it another shot and let you guys know.

I have to second the motion to send it back to Lee. They'll fix or replace it. Priority Mail will cost you $4.05 and that's less than the cost of parts for the thing.

This is a really great drawing. I made one about like that in that I used a 3/8 inch socket that cleared the case but butted agaist the bottom of the die in place of your 5/8 bolt. I eventually bought an RCBS stuck case remover (Yes, I did it more than once), and it didn't work any better than the one I made. Both pulled the stuck case right out. I did fundge and soak the die submerged in penetreating oil first.

Okay it seems this has become a group effort. Since I'm always up for a good challenge I'll give it another shot. Just to clear things up. I did try spraying oil around the case and letting it set but I did not soak it. I will try the heating and soaking then hammering again. I did not bend the decapper pin I just boogered up the end of it a litte where the punch was impacting it. Yes I did loosen the clamp nut at the top before trying to punch it out.

I'll give it another shot and let you guys know.


I can't know if you will read this before you make the next attempt. I just thought of adding a step. I will call it #4b. Once it has cooled to ambiant temperature, you might drop it into a small container full of very cold light oil so as to work the other end of the temperature spectrum. I wouldn't go from hot to cold in one step though. I am looking to get some lubricant between the two metals.

If it were mine(it is not) I would keep trying. It "will" come out of there!

The censor got me at at my last post. I did not cuss. I was using a contraction for the word assembly in my #4.

I wish you well sir.

Cheezywan

Free at last...free at last! I finally got that dang case out of the die. I heated it in the oven at about 200 and then soaked it in penetrating oil and let it cool down. I couldn't tap the primer pocket for the little extraction tool trick. The reason being that I could not back the decapper pin up enough to drill the hole. I tried the punch and hammer again but wasn't making any headway. So, in a final last ditch effort, I just removed the decapper pin clamp nut on top and struck the pin itself and few times with a 2lb sledge. I honestly thought I was going to ruin the entire die. The case came out but I bent the decapper. There was no damage to the die itself but a new decapper is in order.

Let me be the first to offer my congratulations!!!!!!

Welcome to the club!

Free at last...free at last! I finally got that dang case out of the die. I heated it in the oven at about 200 and then soaked it in penetrating oil and let it cool down. I couldn't tap the primer pocket for the little extraction tool trick. The reason being that I could not back the decapper pin up enough to drill the hole. I tried the punch and hammer again but wasn't making any headway. So, in a final last ditch effort, I just removed the decapper pin clamp nut on top and struck the pin itself and few times with a 2lb sledge. I honestly thought I was going to ruin the entire die. The case came out but I bent the decapper. There was no damage to the die itself but a new decapper is in order.

Cheezywan is pleased :D . You should be too! Good work!
Now, I would send the whole thing back to Lee. Be honest and tell them what happened. You can't use the die without the decapper/expander assembly anyway? I think they will treat you well! That die will get looked at by the "best that they have".

All of us have stuck a case(or will). Finding out "how" too lubricate is "key". It is a 'feel thing". I just did it too while reforming one! It went in easy and tore the rim off coming out. Try again!

Cheezywan