I have narrowed down my decision to two rifles. I plan to use them for hunting in the Western states for everything from elk to antelope.

I am going to buy a 7mm for these hunts. I want something that is light enough to carry all day,although my 742 woodsmaster 30-06 wasn't all that bad last year. I want something accurate and shoots nice.

I have narrowed it down to two rifles based on how well the shoulder and how well they feel in a standing aim.

The Rifles are:
Tikka T3 - Laminated Stainless
Remingtion - 700 Mountain (Laminated, Stainless)

Both of these fit the bill for what I am looking for and both feel so good and balance well.

Anyway, looking at the barrel thickness of the Remington, it does not look as hefty as the Tikka. Does stainless steel offer a more reliable barrel than a standard blued barrel? The Remington barrel is not a BDL, but looks like the CDL..


I was told that after 3 or 4 rounds the barrel will lead to a less accurate load?

Anyway, what should I know about each of these rifles before I make a decision so spend $600-$700!? I like them both, but I am leaning toward the Remington.

I thank you in advance for your help.

I have narrowed down my decision to two rifles. I plan to use them for hunting in the Western states for everything from elk to antelope.

I am going to buy a 7mm for these hunts. I want something that is light enough to carry all day,although my 742 woodsmaster 30-06 wasn't all that bad last year. I want something accurate and shoots nice.

I have narrowed it down to two rifles based on how well the shoulder and how well they feel in a standing aim.

The Rifles are:
Tikka T3 - Laminated Stainless
Remingtion - 700 Mountain (Laminated, Stainless)

Both of these fit the bill for what I am looking for and both feel so good and balance well.

Anyway, looking at the barrel thickness of the Remington, it does not look as hefty as the Tikka. Does stainless steel offer a more reliable barrel than a standard blued barrel? The Remington barrel is not a BDL, but looks like the CDL..


I was told that after 3 or 4 rounds the barrel will lead to a less accurate load?

Anyway, what should I know about each of these rifles before I make a decision so spend $600-$700!? I like them both, but I am leaning toward the Remington.

I thank you in advance for your help.


Since the Mountain Rifle LSS only comes in 7mm-08, am I correct in assuming that is the cartridge?

I guess I should have done my homework! I was told by the Gander Mountain guy that it came in 7mm mag.... I think I'd better start dealing with local gun shops...

Dang it - I really liked that gun too... I really dont want to go down to a 7mm-08 or get another 30-06.

What is a comparable rifle that I should be looking at. Not that it matters, but I really like the look of the stainless laminates. Figure that I may as well buy exactly what I want; however, my main focus is killing things, not looking cool..

any suggestions - you all pretty much know what I'm interested in...

Thanks

I shoot a Savage 7mm Rem mag Sierra Light, and I could not ask for a finer rifle. It is also pre Accu-trigger.

Hi, I purchased a Remington CDL this past fall and I had a Remington detachable clip system installed. My nephew shot mine once and order one and he went with the 7mm mag and he was extremely happy with it I am not sure if the Tika comes with a 26 inch barrel as the CDL. When we sighted in the rifle at 100 yards the group was less than 1 inch and he was shooting 162 gr. Hornady BT.
I still think that Remington is one of the best or the best working mans rifle on the market.

Keep the Son in your eyes!

My 7mm Rem Mag light weight sporter is a Sauer 202.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v69/GuideGun/Sauer_202.jpg

A little more money than the Remington but worth it.

I've got a Remington 700 Mountian rifle in 280 Remington. Light and accurate. Five shot groups are the most I've shot with it, but it stays at an inch or just under at a hundred yards. Havn't experienced any group wonder with this rifle yet. Of course I don't expect it to do what a heavy bbl varmit rifle would.

This rifle was used when I bought it and it had about a box of shells thru it. It was like new and shot like a new rifle would be expected to. I have not done any of the accuracy steps you would usually do to a new rifle, like glassbedding and free floating the barrel. With inch groups I'm to the point of don't fix it if it ain't busted.

I like the Remington, but try them all and get what feels best to you.

This is the one I've got and I've yet to kill anything with it. Loaned it to a friend last season and he took a nice deer. He was shooting my 140 grain handloads.

I'm decidedly a non-magnum guy, but I've given up arguing with people about how little (if ANYTHING) a magnum produces except for noise and recoil.

If it were my choice and I could find one, I'd leap at a Tikka, a Howa or a Remmy in .280 unless I had to depend on factory ammo. If I didn't reload, I'd stick with the .30-06 or a .308.

But I'm not the one deciding.

I'm decidedly a non-magnum guy, but I've given up arguing with people about how little (if ANYTHING) a magnum produces except for noise and recoil.

If it were my choice and I could find one, I'd leap at a Tikka, a Howa or a Remmy in .280 unless I had to depend on factory ammo. If I didn't reload, I'd stick with the .30-06 or a .308.

But I'm not the one deciding.
It is said, we mock what we can't master:)

Mock? My friend, you haven't ever gotten my version of mock.

The man sought opinions. Mine is as valid as any, and was honestly given. In a non-mocking way, I might add.

I actually considered the .280, but there just arent enough factory loads. I already own a 30-06 semi-auto, so I dont want to have another one. I'd like another caliber (toy). I dont want to go down to a 308 either... One day is going to be a 7mm-08.

The Tikka fits the best, but the Rem feels more solid? maybe it's just my imagination... By the way, can I shoot .280 rounds in a 7mm??

More opinions please! :-)


...and if you want a deffinitinon of 'mock' shop at Dick's Sporting goods and talk to the guy selling rifles!


Mock? My friend, you haven't ever gotten my version of mock.

The man sought opinions. Mine is as valid as any, and was honestly given. In a non-mocking way, I might add.

... By the way, can I shoot .280 rounds in a 7mm??

You're scaring me.

I actually considered the .280, but there just arent enough factory loads. I already own a 30-06 semi-auto, so I dont want to have another one. I'd like another caliber (toy). I dont want to go down to a 308 either... One day is going to be a 7mm-08.

The Tikka fits the best, but the Rem feels more solid? maybe it's just my imagination... By the way, can I shoot .280 rounds in a 7mm??

More opinions please! :-)



The .280 and 7mm use the same bullet diameter, .284". In fact in the 280's history, it was at one time called a 7mm Remington Express. You can imagine the confusion with 7mm Remington Mag shooters.

The 280 is a great rifle and will handle what you are asking, so will a 270 Win. If you don't want another '06, I'd look at either of those two. Personally, I myself have been eyeing that Remington M-700 Mountain Rifle....which comes in a 280 Remington. At least it was...but checking their site, I see they dropped their DM model.

The reason the barrel looks thinner on the Remington is because it is. It's a mountain rifle and that was done to shave weight off of it. But because of it's lighter weight, keep it in mind when considering a cartridge that may recoil somewhat.

I've never shot the Tikka but have heard nothing but good things about them. In that model you may want to consider the 270 WSM, 7mm RM, or one of the 300 mags.

below are the ballistics comparing the .280 to the 7mm.

The link is here:

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/

Please note the foonote where it says " �* 280 Remington and 7mm Express Remington are interchangeable." Explain that to me? I have never seen the load of a .280, but that sounds like more than the bullet to me.

Ballistics Results
Cartridge Information
Index Number Cartridge Type Weight (grs.) Bullet Style Primer No. Ballistic Coefficient
R280R1 Remington® Express® 150 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.346
R7MM2 Remington® Express® 150 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 M 0.346

Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 2890 2624 2373 2135 1912 1705
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 3110 2830 2568 2320 2085 1866

Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 2781 2293 1875 1518 1217 968
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 3221 2667 2196 1792 1448 1160

Short-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 50 100 150 200 250 300
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 0.2 0.7 zero -2.1 -5.8 -11.2
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 0.0 0.5 zero -1.6 -4.6 -9.0

Long-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 100 150 200 250 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 1.8 1.6 zero -3.1 -8.0 -23.6 -48.8
Remington® Express® 150 PSP CL 1.3 1.2 zero -2.5 -6.6 -20.2 -43.4

Note: These ballistics reflected a test barrel length of 24" except those for 30 Carbine and 44 Remington Magnum which are 20" barrels.
Specifications are nominal. Ballistics figures established in test barrels. Individual rifles may vary from test barrel results.
“zero” indicates yardage at which rifle was sighted in.
* Inches above or below line of sight. Hold low for positive numbers, high for negative numbers.
1 Bullet does not rise more than 1" above line of sight from muzzle to sighting-in range.
2 Bullet does not rise more than 3" above line of sight from muzzle to sighting-in range.
�* 280 Remington and 7mm Express Remington are interchangeable.
‡ 6mm Remington and 244 Remington are interchangeable.


I actually considered the .280, but there just arent enough factory loads. I already own a 30-06 semi-auto, so I dont want to have another one. I'd like another caliber (toy). I dont want to go down to a 308 either... One day is going to be a 7mm-08.

The Tikka fits the best, but the Rem feels more solid? maybe it's just my imagination... By the way, can I shoot .280 rounds in a 7mm??

More opinions please! :-)


...and if you want a deffinitinon of 'mock' shop at Dick's Sporting goods and talk to the guy selling rifles!

RedWing-Al....I am affraid that neither of those rifles would be my pick for what you are looking for in a high country huntng rifle. Sorry, I own a couple of the Remington's of old and know nothing about that other rifle really.

However, I would suggest to you, to take a good hard look at those CZ rifles with the Mauser action and big claw extractor. The Ruger model 77 is also another one I would not mind having in my hands. Last but not leas, would be the SAVAGE rifle and most likely the most accurate of all that that you and I both mentioned in our posts. Good Luck!

Al,
I couldn't get your link to open, but...
Based on the info you gave us, I'll make some observations.

Fact:
The 7mm Express Remington and 280 Remington are the same cartridge.

Observation:
It appears Remington may now a line of loads for different cartridges termed "Express" line. And, it appears one of the cartridges available is the 7mm Remington Magnum or the 7mm Remington Ultra Magnum, not the 7mm Express Remington. Two different cartridges. Whichever the 7mm load it is that you are comparing the 280 Remington in your post above is NOT the obsolete 7mm Express Remington that is interchangable with the 280 Remington. I'm guessing it is one of the Remington Magnums.

The 280 Remington and the 7mm Express Remington are both based on the 30-06 case, with the shoulder bumped forward a little and necked down to .284". I don't think there is any reasonable way you could expect to get those kind of velocities with a 150 grain .284" bullet from the '06 case.

Yikes, did Remington ever open a can of worms when they renamed the .280 Remington to 7mm Express Remington. :rolleyes: Just about the dumbest move ever made by a company known for dumb moves. Note that it's Express Remington, not Remington Express. That resulted in one blown up Kleinguenther around here. Ammo only had the Express Remington headstamp in 1979 and 1980. Now Remington Express is the label for their basic line with the Core-Lokt bullets.

Bye
Jack

Didn't mean to confuse you by mentioning that the 280 Rem was also known as the "7mm Remington Express". My fault, it IS the 7mm Express Remington. This is not what it is currently known as, it's simly the 280 Remington. There may be some older rifles out there stamped as that but DO NOT confuse the 7mm Express Remington and the 7mm Remington Magnum. They are two entirely different cartridges.

Even finding a 7mm Express Remington case now is tough. This one is the only one I've found and it was blown out to .30 Gibbs!

Bye
Jack

One of my least favorite moments when working in a gun store was when some yahoo would come in and ask for "a box of 7mm bullets."

First, I had to figure out if the dim bulb meant bullets or cartridges. He usually say, "Bullets." So I'd hand him a box of bullets, and he'd open them then cuss me out for giving him exactly what he asked for, but didn't mean.

OK, I'd say, what kind of 7mm cartridges do you mean.

"Huh? You dumb sheet. Don't you know what a 7mm is?" he'd say.

Then I'd rattle off about 17 entirely different cartridges, all with 7mm in their names. That'd really pizz the guy off. No matter how sincerely I'd try to explain that I was trying to keep him from blowing his face off, he'd think I was the world's greatest dipstick.

The worst thing is, if I HAD sold him the wrong ammo, and he DID blow his face off, the first thing he'd do is sue the store and me.

There are some people who should get an hours worth of firearms instruction while standing at attention in front of an old Sergeant-Major. You know, the blow-dried look. They should understand that there won't been a second time, because they'll be gunless.

Bye
Jack

Lost count of the folks that show up at the gunrange with a chambering in one cartridge and a box of cartridges that fit another. This usually happens just prior to hunting season and the nimrod was fortunate enough to draw a tag, then bought the rifle to take hunting.

One of my least favorite moments when working in a gun store was when some yahoo would come in and ask for "a box of 7mm bullets."

First, I had to figure out if the dim bulb meant bullets or cartridges. He usually say, "Bullets." So I'd hand him a box of bullets, and he'd open them then cuss me out for giving him exactly what he asked for, but didn't mean.

OK, I'd say, what kind of 7mm cartridges do you mean.

"Huh? You dumb sheet. Don't you know what a 7mm is?" he'd say.

Then I'd rattle off about 17 entirely different cartridges, all with 7mm in their names. That'd really pizz the guy off. No matter how sincerely I'd try to explain that I was trying to keep him from blowing his face off, he'd think I was the world's greatest dipstick.

The worst thing is, if I HAD sold him the wrong ammo, and he DID blow his face off, the first thing he'd do is sue the store and me.
Thats why I buy my ammo off the shelf:)

Lots of places don't put ammo out where you can pick it out yourself. Mostly it's behind a counter and you have to ask for it. Just to many sticky fingers anymore. I know that all of the gun stores I Lewiston and Orofino keep their ammo behind the counter and you have to ask for what you want. Also because there is an age limit on pistol and revolver ammo the clerks have to check ID's for those purchases.

With so many selections in ammo anymore it's easy to see where folks can make mistakes and even some of the folks selling ammo don't always know what there selling.

. . . although my 742 woodsmaster 30-06 wasn't all that bad last year. I want something accurate and shoots nice.

If you read posts on the 742's, other than gripes about the long stroke, creepy triggers, some of them have proven to be real tack drivers. Those that weren't often seemed to have issues with how the gas system was assembled. If your's doesn't do very well, you might call Remington and ask them about it?


. . . Does stainless steel offer a more reliable barrel than a standard blued barrel? . . I was told that after 3 or 4 rounds the barrel will lead to a less accurate load? . .

A lengthy firing test with .308's by ballistics technician Kevin Thomas at Sierra Bullets' indoor QC test range showed typical stainless barrels keep best accuracy for about 3500 rounds as-is and about 4000 rounds cryo-treated. The conventional blued chrome-moly steel usually runs 3000 rounds in that chambering, while no systematic testing of them after cryo-treatment has been done that I am aware of. Magnum chamberings and hot rounds, like the 6.5-284, have been known to shoot out peak accuracy in as little as 1000 rounds. I believe I read the .300 Baer could take even a stainless barrel out in 800 rounds. Mind you, this is match accuracy. Combat or so-called practical accuracy can go well beyond these numbers. The usual symptom is fliers you can't account for that become more and more frequent as you keep using the gun. But a match shooter's flier (out an inch, say) can still be well within a hunter's useful accuracy limits. Most hunting rifles never have enough rounds fired through them for these limits to matter anyway.

Custom match barrels are most often in stainless these days, to get the extra life. Hunting rifle stainless is usually for the added corrosion resistance in damp weather. They are no more or less prone to fouling than chrome-moly steel if properly lapped and cared for. Stainless is not as machinable as chrome-moly steel, so tooling can tear at it and leave a somewhat rougher surface. A manufacturer using tooling and lubricants designed for stainless should not have this problem. You can firelap a stainless barrel to improve it if you do have the problem.

Anyway, what should I know about each of these rifles before I make a decision so spend $600-$700!?

I would expect the Tikka to be very good out of the box. The Remington may be also, but it is less certain. On the other hand, the Remington will have a lot more after-market parts available for accurizing if you decide you have an itch to improve on it?

As far as the caliber goes, it depends on the range you expect to shoot at and your marksmanship skill? I fired Sierra 175 grain MatchKings from a .308 at a 1000 yard range next to a fellow shooting a .300 Win Mag launching Sierra's 200 grain MK's. The wind was gusting 10-12 mph, and his faster, heavier bullets were seeing what looked like about 1/2 the wind drift mine were. I've never run tables to check, but that's how it appeared. The magnum was a clear advantage there. If you will be making long shots in stiff breezes, you will notice the advantage, too.

As far as ability to kill game, I think many one-range-trip-a-year hunters jump to bigger bores not for faster kills, but hoping killing power will allow them to shortcut working on their marksmanship or skillful stalking to get closer to game. Killing speed is a legitimate objective, especially with dangerous game. But if using a hot cartridge means your accuracy significantly deteriorates, then you are on the wrong track. Within a reasonable range of calibers, shot placement is king, (especially when you don't want to put extra bloodshot meat in the freezer.)

Vihtavuori published this tidbit regarding the modestly powerered 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser cartridge:

Official military caliber in a given country tends to become popular in civilian use, too. The same happened in Sweden. 6.5 x 55 is today number 1 in Sweden as a moose cartridge. It is ranked number 9 in popularity in Finland, but many Finnish hunters consider this caliber marginal for moose. Åke Siikavaara of Sweden just shrugs his shoulders at this opinion. He has killed 150 Swedish Lapp moose with 6.5 x 55 Swede. And he is a fairly young man!

Yikes, did Remington ever open a can of worms when they renamed the .280 Remington to 7mm Express Remington. :rolleyes: Just about the dumbest move ever made by a company known for dumb moves. Note that it's Express Remington, not Remington Express. That resulted in one blown up Kleinguenther around here. Ammo only had the Express Remington headstamp in 1979 and 1980. Now Remington Express is the label for their basic line with the Core-Lokt bullets.

Bye
Jack

They did the same thing with the 6mm Rem. In the early 60's they decided to re-name the 6mm Rem to the 6mm Rem Mag. They marked some barrels with the 6mm Rem Mag name but before they were shipped the mag part was XXX out. There are a few of these out there some where.

Frank