After shooting Nozler Partition bullets for years and years I've decided to start testing Barnes X bullets, especially the TSX. It's my understanding that the rifle barrel needs to be free of copper fowling in order for the X bullets to shoot their best. Barnes recommends their own product for copper removal, Barnes CR-10. I bought a bottle. Any of you guys know anything about this stuff? It smells like ammonia to me.

Thanks in advance,
Doug in AK

Yeah, IMO, it's one of two best copper removers out there, the other being Sweets 7.62. I wouldn't leave it in your barrel for longer than 15 mins or so.

I've used it with good results in quite a few of my rifles.

Follow the instructions on the bottle, because they use a slightly different procedure than other cleaners.

Its good, but, not as effective as the foaming bore cleaner made by Outer's.

It's the best copper remover I've tried, excepting the electrolytic method.

They say not to use it more than 15 minutes, but I've soaked an old mauser in it overnight..and now it shoots cloverleafs.

Doug In Alaska.....Yes, I have used Barnes CR-10 in my rifles, especially when shooting their bullets. One must be very careful as not to get any excess on the blued steel of your rifle, as it will take the finish off in a hurry. I alway wipe off my rifles and then put a light coat of gun oil on their finish.

The product is a very good product but so are several others on the market today. It is your choice simply put OK. :)

Doug
Barns CR10 is my chemical of choice if I encounter any copper in my barrel.If it is a really bad case,I use my Outer's reverse plating kit
Be careful with the Barns,it's strong stuff,and should be cleaned out of the barrel with Hoppe's or some othermilder solvent.
Frank

Apply the CR-10 with a nylon brush or a mop. It eat's bronze brushe's!! I found a proper size machine screw minus the head, can be wrapped with dacron or a patch. Wrap it well covering the screw so you will not scratch the bore. I soak it down with CR-10 and down the bore guide swabbing the bore to get it completely wet. Let it stand 5min. then brushung w/bronze brush. Brushes last longer if you spray down with carb. cleaner or brake cleaner. Both have very powerful solvents, keep away from stock finishes. TF

I've been kicking around going to Barnes as well. I understand the process of removing the copper. But why is it so critical? Is it the fact that the bullet can't "compress" into the grooves the way a lead core bullet does, so it must have cleaner sharper, grooves to ensure accuracy?

My rifles shoot very well with Noslers and Sierras and not so well with Hornadys (for what ever reason).

Because the existing copper deposits are ripping more copper off the rest of the bullets as they pass.... you can imagine that this is not too good for accuracy.

Don't worry about which brand your rifle doesn't like, just use more of the ones that it does..... that is just how handloading goes, sometimes.

I've been kicking around going to Barnes as well. I understand the process of removing the copper. But why is it so critical? Is it the fact that the bullet can't "compress" into the grooves the way a lead core bullet does, so it must have cleaner sharper, grooves to ensure accuracy?

My rifles shoot very well with Noslers and Sierras and not so well with Hornadys (for what ever reason).

I picked Barnes bullets with my .25-06, because the heavier bullets i've tried all don't shoot as well as the lighter ones.

My rifle will typically group 5 shots @ 100 yards around 3/4's of an inch with 75-90 grainers. The best 100/120 grain bullet grouping i've ever gotten was a little over 2 inches. I don't know if this is a twist rate issue, or what. It's just proven true with all the heavier bullets i've tested.

The only 85 grain bullet I have confidence in taking down a small deer reliably is the X bullet. All the other manufacturers design these light bullets for varmint hunting.

Odd logic, but it works for me. :D

Because the existing copper deposits are ripping more copper off the rest of the bullets as they pass.... you can imagine that this is not too good for accuracy.


Well I get that, but why does it affect Barnes bullets (Copper Solids) and not so much other copper "jacketed bullets". In other words, why are they hyper critical to it?

Because they are pure copper and a lot softer than ordinary jacketed bullets.

Usual jacket material is a copper/zinc alloy called guilding metal. Barnes X bullets are pure copper.

Actually, any time you switch jacket material it's a good time to clean the barrel to bare steel.... this includes going from standard jackted bullets, to cast bullets (or paper patch).

Well I get that, but why does it affect Barnes bullets (Copper Solids) and not so much other copper "jacketed bullets". In other words, why are they hyper critical to it?

From the Barnes Manual #1:



It has been our experience that the pure copper in our bullets will not foul any faster than a copper alloy IF THE BORE IS FREE FROM FOULING TO BEGIN WITH. Follow the directions on the bottle and by removing the fouling properly you should notice a marked improvement in accuracy.

Bacially, other copper jackets are copper alloys and barnes bullets are pure copper.

That makes sense. Thanks guys.

I can understand why Barnes would be defensive in the fouling of their bullets.

I take exception to their statement, though. My personal experience is that their products DO leave more fouling in the bore that other alloyed jacket bullets. And, I clean my bores to bare metal after each shooting.

I picked Barnes bullets with my .25-06, because the heavier bullets i've tried all don't shoot as well as the lighter ones.

My rifle will typically group 5 shots @ 100 yards around 3/4's of an inch with 75-90 grainers. The best 100/120 grain bullet grouping i've ever gotten was a little over 2 inches. I don't know if this is a twist rate issue, or what. It's just proven true with all the heavier bullets i've tested.

The only 85 grain bullet I have confidence in taking down a small deer reliably is the X bullet. All the other manufacturers design these light bullets for varmint hunting.

Odd logic, but it works for me. :D


My .257 Roberts has a 1-12 twist and much prefers the lighter bullets. If the 90 grain Sierra HPBT gives good accuracy in your 25-06, I think you will be pleased with how it works on deer.

My personal experience is that their products DO leave more fouling in the bore that other alloyed jacket bullets.

Hearing that type of comment, and the comments I hear about the accuracy results (being tougher to obtain) are driving me off of Barnes again. The gun I considered getting some Triple-Xs for, a 7MM WSM, prints very good groups with Trophy Bonded Bear Claws (for which I already have a supply). How much better can a Barnes bullet perform on game than that bullet? Not much, if any would be my guess. I think I'll stay away for now.

While I have tended to stay away from their bullets, I think the Cr-10 is a winner. After 20 rounds or so I clean my rifles with Cr-10 and then follow it up with a wipe of hoppes, dry patch, then light oil. It seems to work great for me.
Kurt

Guess I have been lucky - have had very good accuracy in the 3 guns that I've tried the X bullet in.

If it shoots well, fouling is a small price to pay....

My experience was, it looks like a lot more fouling, but mostly was a thin 'wash' that came out pretty easily.

Your mileage may vary....