I have a savage 110 in 30-06 and I don't want to deal with the frustration of poor groups when I am trying to sight it in this weekend. Can anyone recommend a very accurate round or does anyone know of rounds that the savage tends to like? I am leaning towards some type of hornady round.

Your going to find that different guns like different ammo. It's just a fact of shooting. You didn't say if your going to reload or use factory ammo.

If your going to use factory ammo get a box of Remington or federal or Winchester in the bullet weights you plan on hunting with. It'l either be ok or not ok and you will have to try something else. Not even two identical guns will shoot the same with the same loads sometimes.

Some of the things that help with good groups are a really good bench rest, good rifle holding fixtures (I like the lead sled type), good breathing and trigger control and having the trigger adjusted for a good pull also helps.

best way to get accurate ammo is reloading

Ditto the above.

Each rifle will have a particular like for a certain factory or reloaded cartridge. The only way you're going to find out which is which is to try some of each in various weights and bullet styles until you detect the most accurate one.

Sorta like asking which is the best - Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc. You'll get a hundred different opinions.

I forgot to mention that I do not reload. I also understand that every gun likes a different round. It just seems like some factory rounds such as black hills have proved to be more accurate than other factory loads, regardless of the gun.

. . It just seems like some factory rounds such as black hills have proved to be more accurate than other factory loads, regardless of the gun.

Some manufacturers have hit on loads that tend to work over a wider range of rifles than some others. Dan Newberry addresses this for reloaders with his Optimal Charge Weight theory. The Federal Gold Medal 168 grain .308 load is an example of a commercial round that seems to have found this golden mean.

I would say that Federal, Hornady, Black Hills, and HSM (sold through Champion's Choice) are all brands I've found to shoot better than most. Winchester and Remington both seem to have more variance in their components, which doesn't help. I've had some Winchester bulk bullets that simply could not be made to shoot no matter what I did, but that doesn't mean for sure that your gun wouldn't like them.

The basic problem usually has to do with rates and modes of vibration, some of which change with barrel weight and distribution, and some of which are strictly dependent on barrel length. The bottom line is the bullet needs to get out of the barrel in the right number of milliseconds for your barrel and receiver assembly to be at a sweet spot.

The actual barrel time of a particular load will depend on its powder charge and bullet weight and dimensions and materials. Load pressure varies, too, because it is the size of the chamber the case expands into that determines the pressure peak and timing for a particular load recipe. In other words, you could loosen the barrel nut on the Savage and change its headspace a few thousandths, then suddenly find different loads work working best in it. (I'm not recommending you do that, by the way).

So, alas, there is no guaranteed way to make general ammuntion recipes that exclusively group well with new guns of unanticipated specific form. If there were, competition would see to it the ammunition makers did it in every box.

If you ever do reload and want a great deer round, the following is absolutely nails in my Savage Stevens and my best friends Savage 110. It is pretty good in my Model 70 as well.

55.5 gr H414
165 Nosler Balistic Tip
WLR Primers

This is not a real hot load, but really hard on deer. It gets you 2750 to 2800 fps from a standard 22" barrel.

As always, it would be prudent to start at 53.5 gr H414 and work your way up. I have loaded them up to 56.4 without pressure signs, but those are not quite as accurate (in my guns).

Don't forget in developing a load for any rifle include case prep. Uniform flash holes, trim to length, sort by brand and weight. You want to remove any variables from making uniform loads. Good luck TF

Jag is exactly right. Also finding the bullet seating depth your gun likes. Johnny-r, it looks like from your original post your looking for factory ammo though.

Hornady used to produce a great factory load of 168 Match Boat Tail Hollow Point. I am not sure they do anymore -if so, it's hard to find. It's not a real good hunting load anyway. I did kill a deer at long range with it when I was younger, but I wouldn't try it again. I would try Hornady's 165 gr SST or Interbond loads, or Federal's 165 Nosler Ballistic Tips if I had to have an accurate factory load.

Also, is your Savage brand new? My recent experience with a NIB savage was that it took 60-80 rounds to break it in. I'd shoot 10 to 15 rounds during a session, then take it home and give it a general cleaning with Outers Copper foam, followed by WD-40 and a Hoppe's bore snake. Don't get me wrong, my groups were not real bad out of the box (1.5" to 1 3/4"). But after two or three shooting sessions as described above, things tightened up to sub MOA. Another shooter I met with a new Savage .300WSM experienced the exact same thing.

So:

1. Don't be discouraged if your 1st session is not printing clover leafs. Today's Savage's are awesome for accuracy, but some seem to want to be shot a bit before they produce it.

2. Therefore, you might not want to spend top dollar on premium factory loads for the first few sessions. It's up to you, but if I had to do it again and had to use factory loads, I'd find some cheaper Federal Vital shoks or Win Super-Xs at Wal-mart or where ever and use them for the first session or two. Then go to the premiums. Plus, some guns shoot the best with basic Federal, Remington, Win non premium ammo anyway. You never know.

3. Some 06s prefer a specific bullet weight. My first, a Weatherby Vanguard, really liked 180s. My next two, really like 165s over 150s. The only way to find out what your's likes is range testing.

Good Luck!

im with bird dog the nosler ballistic tip are sweet

ballistic tips are accurate, but not so great for meat huntitng

Buy the three cheapest boxes available and make sure you keep track of the lot #s. If you find one that does what you want go back and buy all of that lot. If you want to specialize or buy more expensive stuff to check for accuracy, do the same for them.

Have fun.

There has been a great deal of good information posted so far. I reload and found in my Win 70 that a Hornady SP in 165 with 56.5 of IMR 4350 works the best. Worthless information in regard to your Savage and since you are not reloading, thought I would put it out there anyway.

As far as factory loads are concerned, I ran across something very interesting this Fall at the range. During a Saturday sight in, a number of shooters came, comparing their usual loads with the Fusion ammunition. Fusion is a cheaper Federal offering. To everyones amazement, in virtually every case, the Fusion posted sub MOA groupings. They were not as good as the reloaders group, however, they were very close. This accuracy covered 308, 30-06 as well as 270. You may want to pick up a box and compare.

Good Luck, would love to hear what your results are.

Brad S
Hebrews 10:39

As far as factory loads are concerned, I ran across something very interesting this Fall at the range. During a Saturday sight in, a number of shooters came, comparing their usual loads with the Fusion ammunition. Fusion is a cheaper Federal offering. To everyones amazement, in virtually every case, the Fusion posted sub MOA groupings. They were not as good as the reloaders group, however, they were very close. This accuracy covered 308, 30-06 as well as 270. You may want to pick up a box and compare.
Hey, guys.....could you please not tell my wife that cheap factory ammo is as accurate as the stuff that's produced in the basement of our house which is jam-packed to the ceilings with reloading components and equipment?

Brad S, I wish you were a little closer, I have near 100 Hornady 165 SPs I'd give you. My 2 .30-06s don't print very good groups with them (about 1.5").

Fremont - let's face it, your wife will never understand anyway.

Fremont
Sorry, did not mean to cause a domestic incident. Been through that with my wife also. I pointed out that with the brass I pick up at the range, my average reload costs about 50 cents compared with about 95 cents or more for even the cheapest factory stuff.

Bird Dog, I wish I were closer too. I love Missouri and look forward to the day I can retire to that area. MN is good, I have lived here all my life, but with the political climate as well as other frustrations, it just does not fit me as well as it use to.

Those 165's also work well in my savage 99 in 308. In fact, they were the only ones that actually produce a good pattern. I use 44 grains of IMR 4064 there.

Brad S
Hebrews 10:39

Yeah, I bet I could develop a accurate load with them and one of my two .30-06s if I had the time. It's just so much easier for me to get a tight group out of my 165 Nosler loads. For whatever reasons, my guns like them better. They also really like the 168 BTHP by Hornady, but they are not good game bullets.

Yeah, I bet I could develop a accurate load with them and one of my two .30-06s if I had the time. It's just so much easier for me to get a tight group out of my 165 Nosler loads. For whatever reasons, my guns like them better. They also really like the 168 BTHP by Hornady, but they are not good game bullets.

Bird Dog
I have run across many who just love the boat tails. For what ever reason I have never had any luck with accuracy with them. It seems to me that they should be extremely accurate due to there design. I would be very interested as to why some of us can not get them to shoot well. I have tinkered with load levels, however with the guns I have, the accuracy has always been in question.

What does everyone do differently with Boat tails vs. SP that allow them to reach an acceptable accuracy level?

Brad S
Hebrews 10:39

I ran into the same thing early in my reloading career in the .222 Remington. The problem is most likely small amounts of bullet tipping in the bore (see September and October, 2006 issues of Precision Shooting). Because it is longer, the boattail bullet will have a shorter bearing surface than a spitzer of the same weight. The greater length means it also will require slightly faster twist to achieve the same gyroscopic stability factor. On firing, after the bearing surface clears the muzzle it takes longer for the boattail’s base to get clear than for a flat base to do. This makes it more susceptible to tipping by the muzzle gas jet. If a bullet is even slightly tipped, this jet deflection tends to tip it even further. This tipping requires the bullet to precess into recovery and introduces extra coning motion that takes more time to damp out. The added time needed to clear the muzzle also exaggerates the effect of any small asymmetry in the muzzle crown by exposing the bullet to the resulting asymmetrical gas jetting still longer. The bottom line is that bullet alignment and muzzle crowning are more important than with flat base bullets of the same weight.

If you get a Redding S type full-length sizing die, you can use its interchangeable neck sizing rings. You can size first for the shoulder without the neck sizing ring in place, then put the ring in place and run the case up in about 25 mils short of the whole neck length. This is easiest to do by backing the die out 1/3 of a turn from where it contacts the shell holder when the ram is all the way up. This leaves the base of the neck near the shoulder fire-formed to match the neck portion of the chamber. This causes it to center the neck and bullet in the chamber neck. You can also load with the front of the bullet touching the lands to help keep it centered at the nose.

Because misalignment introduces an increased spiral motion to the flight path, an effective loss in ballistic coefficient occurs with increased bullet misalignment. Walt Berger of Berger Bullets did tests some time ago that showed bullets impact plated with moly by the NECO process will align themselves better in the bore on firing than plain bullets. You could try the impact plated moly bullets made by Berger, Sierra, or Norma, all of whom license the use of the NECO process. Those coated by other means may not perform the same way?

In my earlier post I mentioned Dan Newberry’s Optimum Charge Weight concept. I should have taken the time to include a link. Here it is. (http://home.earthlink.net/~dannewberry/dannewberrysoptimalchargeweightloaddevelopment/) I’ll caution you that the loads in his list are for Winchester cases, and will need to be smaller in lower capacity cases. He is showing 57.5 grains of either IMR 4350 or H4350 (though you have to work up with your lot) with 165 grain bullets, and 56 grains with 180 grain bullets in these cases. That might be a starting point for you? You can probably interpolate between these loads for intermediate bullet weights and at least get a good starting point. I recommend you read the whole sight and learn how to find these loads for yourself.

As typical, the expertise on this forum is incredible. You answered a question that I had thought about for some time. Logically I was figuring the problem was the contact length but also the consistancy of the gas bleed through caused by the form of the boat tail bullet. I wondered about the spin or twist impact from the barrel, which does make perfect sense. I figured the stabilization of the bullet was the a culprit. With your information and direction, I at least have some ways to solve the problem or at least see if I can play with them enough to counter them. That is where most of the fun is anyway, putz around trying different things, narrowing the variables until you reach the goal.

Thanks for the help and the resources. As time permits I will be able to research the items provided.

Brad S
Hebrews 10:39

As typical, the expertise on this forum is incredible.

Boy, I second that. The moderators and senior guys here are great to learn from.



For my .30-06 reloads, all I have ever loaded is boat-tails. That encompasses about 15 years. I have had mixed results for accuracy. Here are my general results:

Hornady 150 FMJ-BT
accuracy - 1.5" to 2"
performance on game - N/A


Hornady 150 BTSP
accuracy - 1.5" to 2"
performance on game - excellent, quick kills


Hornady 165 BTSP
accuracy - 1.5" to 2"
performance on game - Never used, I would expect the same quick kills the 150 SP gives. The accuracy of these two just isn't good enough in my guns though.


Hornady 168 BTHP Match
accuracy - sub MOA - 1/2 to 3/4"
performance on game - one kill at 200yds, strangly the deer was double lunged and ran from the point of impact to my stand and died at the base. A 200 yd run is too far, so I'd say this is not a game round. I was trying to make it into one due to the accuracy. That changed when I discovered the...


Nosler 165 Ballistic Tip
accuracy - MOA in 3 rifles. Dime sized 100yd groups possible
performance on game - It's just perfect for deer at .308 and .30-06 velocities. In well over 30 deer, my best friend an I have never had any of the Bal Tip problems you read about (splash wounds, excessive meat damage, etc.) These bullets just drop deer in their tracks. I've gone through shoulders of big deer on front quartering shots and had hits at all angles. It is certainly not an Elk bullet, but for deer a 165 Nosler Bal Tip is hard to beat at 2600 to 2850 muzzle velocities.

There is an argument from the bench rest shooters that flat based bullets can be manufactured more consistent in the base area of the bullet (very important) .... but mostly they just shoot what their gun likes best.

The Hornady SP in 165 I use in both my 308 and 30-06 have never failed. In 20 years I have not had to take a second shot at a deer. My shot placement is typically aimed at the heart/lung. Sadly, I do damage more meat than I would like. The far side shoulder is more often than not badly torn up. I have thought about aiming higher, but when a deer presents itself, I always fall back to old habits which do work.

This past fall I shot a Doe that bounded just as I shot. I knew I hit her, but I could not find a blood trail. I finally found her, but I was bad talking the bullet all the way through the woods while I was looking. Turned out the bullet worked just fine, the fat in the brisket just closed up both holes, enterance and exit.

I friend of mine used a Hornady SP in 180 on a moose. Again the bullet worked great. In butchering we found the bullet. It measured out at 170 grains so it lost less than 10% by weight. I have always been interested in seeing what the weight loss is on the 165's on the deer. However, thankfully, never had one stop in a deer, always goes through.

Brad S
Hebrews 10:39